CFL Taking Ownership of the Montreal Alouettes
- Thread starter Mightygoose
- Start date
I wonder if they were sold along with significant debt? There were lots of rumours about how much money they've been losing in recent years. I can see that being a significant obstacle in the negotiations with Guzzo and the other potential owners. Will they have to go through bankruptcy before they are sold?
CFL has some real problems sustaining teams in large Canadian markets. BC has had issues, Toronto has a revolving door of ownership (probably not going to be the case under MLSE now) and now Montreal.
Interest in those big markets has dropped over the years.
For the Lions, they really needed a smaller more intimate venue up to 30K which could be expanded for playoffs if warranted. Didn’t need to Reno BC Place and still have 50K seats. Demographics for the cfl skew older, and Vancouver is an expensive city. A good portion of the lions fans have moved inland and thus is a trek to get into the city for weekday games.
They said the same thing for the Argos here in Toronto when they played in the dome. Now they play in BMO field and the attendance has been worse. I think it worked in Montreal for a while (which is why people thought that model worked) but that success came after the Expos left (or were out the door) and the impact was not as big.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Montreal seems to have a challenge with large swings in support coinciding with the team's performance unless it's the Habs.
It has a reputation of being an event town which makes it difficult during the down years.
Even the Impact who are only 2 seasons removed from their last playoff appearance which took them to the east finals (in front of 61K fans at the big O against TFC), Saputo is still losing over 10 million a season and needs tax breaks to stadium expansion to increase revenues to keep up with the rest of the league.
With the Als, they don't have the ability to host a Grey Cup until the new roof is in place at the Big O, which will be 2022 at the earliest. After their failed bid to host in '20 and '21 (gone to Regina and Hamilton respecivley), the Wettenhal finally decided to get out despite rejecting offers to sell 2-3 years earlier when the finances were in better shape.
This occurred in February to my understanding and with the CBA that still needed to be done (ratifed a couple of weeks ago), there simply wasn't enough time to vet through the other parties in time before the season started so hence this is where it stands.
It has a reputation of being an event town which makes it difficult during the down years.
Even the Impact who are only 2 seasons removed from their last playoff appearance which took them to the east finals (in front of 61K fans at the big O against TFC), Saputo is still losing over 10 million a season and needs tax breaks to stadium expansion to increase revenues to keep up with the rest of the league.
With the Als, they don't have the ability to host a Grey Cup until the new roof is in place at the Big O, which will be 2022 at the earliest. After their failed bid to host in '20 and '21 (gone to Regina and Hamilton respecivley), the Wettenhal finally decided to get out despite rejecting offers to sell 2-3 years earlier when the finances were in better shape.
This occurred in February to my understanding and with the CBA that still needed to be done (ratifed a couple of weeks ago), there simply wasn't enough time to vet through the other parties in time before the season started so hence this is where it stands.
The Alouettes have never made money, it was just less disastrous after they left the Big O. It was a minor scandal in the league when the "success" was revealed to be the result of Larry Smith's ability to paper the house and the true extent of the losses being written off by the Wetenhall's came out.
CFL teams in general, even the successful ones, are breakeven operations that rake in some profit when they host the Grey Cup. Montreal doesn't have a suitable venue unless the Big O gets some major renovations
I think any potential owner(s) who are actually willing to put capital into the Alouettes would want to see some potential in the Alouettes to balance their basic operational costs with reasonable revenue from those operations and their split of league revenue. Losing $12 million a season on $25-$30 million in expenses to run a CFL team means that they were either completely mismanaged or there are very poor revenue streams in the market, or both.
Ultimately the bizarre involvement of the league as a middle man makes me think that the potential ownership groups are insisting on the league (member clubs) eating most of the existing debt before a sale.
It can be a chore watching a football game these days. With the way sports are going overboard with the video review a game can last up to four hours.
Mightygoose
Registered User
Clifford Starke's group is reportedly out of the running to buy the Als.
https://www.tsn.ca/report-montreal-...f-the-running-to-purchase-alouettes-1.1315195
No statement from Mr. Stark or his partner Brad Smith. No comments from any other group right now.
Out of the running sounds like the league has narrowed their focus on a specific group(s) as opposed to them dropping out.
I'm sure more will surface on this as time goes on.
https://www.tsn.ca/report-montreal-...f-the-running-to-purchase-alouettes-1.1315195
No statement from Mr. Stark or his partner Brad Smith. No comments from any other group right now.
Out of the running sounds like the league has narrowed their focus on a specific group(s) as opposed to them dropping out.
I'm sure more will surface on this as time goes on.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
The son played a major role in the decline of the team. Corporate and season tickets reduced to a fraction of what they once were under his "leadership."
For most of their sellout streak Larry Smith did not paper the house as you claim. Only when the team expanded the facility were there some rumblings that attendance was exaggerated as sellout crowds of 25,000 appeared to be less then that. Their revenues weren't $25 million if they indeed did lose $12 million. They would have likely been far less then $20 million considering announced attendance was 17,000 last season (not actual close to that) and corporate support was likely a fraction of what it once was in the heydays.
CamPopplestone
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2017
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Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
Literally the EXACT same thing that was said 10 years ago...and 20 years ago...and 30 years ago.
Its plain untrue and ridiculous. 10 years ago the CFL owned 2 teams at the same time and had to sell one to someone who already owned another team in the league. 20 years ago even the strongly supported teams like Saskatchewan had to have pledge drives to keep team afloat. 30 years ago the league took a cash injection from NFL to stay afloat.
The CFL is in the strongest financial position it's been in in years. And will continue to be a strong league. It's never going to be the NFL or the NHL or hell wont even get to money like MLS but it's going to be fine.
Mightygoose
Registered User
BREAKING: Eric Lapointe’s group has been told by the @CFL that they are no longer in the running as a potential owner of the @MTLAlouettes
Per TSN 690 in Montreal's Tony Marinaro.
If it's the league telling Lapointe's group they're out as opposed to the other way around is a good sign IMO.
Still think it's going to end up being the Vince Guzzo lead group. Just a matter of $$ of course and how soon his group takes over.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a sale announced in the next month or 2 with the new group getting the keys after the Grey Cup.
Per TSN 690 in Montreal's Tony Marinaro.
If it's the league telling Lapointe's group they're out as opposed to the other way around is a good sign IMO.
Still think it's going to end up being the Vince Guzzo lead group. Just a matter of $$ of course and how soon his group takes over.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a sale announced in the next month or 2 with the new group getting the keys after the Grey Cup.
Obviously on the revenue, I was talking about the basic expenses to operate a CFL franchise.
I don't think so. The CFL is quite strong on the prairies, Hamilton and Ottawa. TV ratings in the GTA, lower mainland and Quebec are great. The issue is trying to exist in the central city of the 3 largest (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal). If they had a stadium in Mississauga or Vaughan they'd be fine. Just a basic stadium like Hamilton's, $200 million. Same goes for Montreal. Football is insanely popular in Quebec, the location of the stadium is horrendous.
As a league the CFL really needs to start a capital fund to assist their franchises in building/upgrading facilities. Start by diverting a certain percentage of league revenues (TV, league sponsorships etc.)
tony d
Registered User
The CFL is just fine despite this news with Montreal. I think the CFL had issues a few years ago but now things are good for the league.
Yeah the myth of Saskatchewan being the model franchise is kind of a joke. Before they won the 2007 Grey Cup they were operating below 80% capacity most seasons.
The basic expenses you listed as $25 - $30 million are a little high for Montreal. It's probably closer to $20 million. Winnipeg and Saskatchewan have higher expenses due to a combination of stadium payments, stadium upkeep, transit, and merchandise expenses - much lower or nonexistent in Montreal. Bombers and Riders are #1 and #2 in merchandise sales most years but revenues from merch barely covers the expenses as manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer take most of the cut.
I've often wondered what the impact of MLS coming to Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver for the Argos, Als, and Lions. MLS and CFL seasons take place at roughly the same time and as such each league is competing for the same dollar. In Montreal's case the decline of the Alouettes attendance started after 2010 which was when the Impact joined MLS. Co-incidence perhaps?
Which makes me wonder what will happen to all those relatively new stadiums in Hamilton, Ottawa, Regina, and Winnipeg. Not to mention the older ones in Edmonton and Calgary.
Dr Pepper
Registered User
Was just going to say the same thing.
The Argos are a distant 5th in terms of local fan interest here, behind the Leafs, Raps, Jays, and Toronto FC.
It's the closest we have to an NFL team though, so there's always going to be SOME small pocket of diehards who keep the team afloat. But they aren't the hot ticket they once were.
