Line Combos: Center position

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Bump.

If hockey kept me up at night, the Wings having abysmal center depth would be the reason why.

Things look bleak down the middle. We have no exciting center youth on the roster, none waiting in Grand Rapids, and our center prospects elsewhere - Niederbach, Phillips, Savage - aren’t moving anybody’s needle.

No good young centers are on the trade market (as they rarely are) and the best free agents are old for our window (Trochek/Kadri), not that great (Domi), or will be in competitive demand and expensive - Hertl - if he makes it to UFA.

To top it all off, the 2022 draft looks bad for (actual, future NHL) centers outside of the top 2 (Cooley, Wright).

I’m at the point where I think we need another tank year in 2023 just for another shot at a top center (and that draft actually has players listed as centers who can actually play center). We can’t keep kicking this can down the road. There’s no point moving forward as a club without strength at center. It’s too important.

Trochek is only 2 years older then Bert and by adding him we would be ready to compete for a playoff spot. Domi has 19 in points in 33 games with only 13:13 of icetime, if you do the math, I think he may be scoring at a higher per 60 minutes clip than Raymond and he has the speed and playmaking ability to play with Vrana.
Savoie is right up there with Wright and Cooley and there are a few other high reward center prospects who are little riskier available in the draft.

 

[Reddwit]

Having said that I don't think it's as bleak as some make it out to be:

Larkin - 25 years old
Suter - 25 years old
Rasmussen - 22 years old
Veleno - 22 years old
Niederbach - 19 years old
Savage - 18 years old
Liam Dower Nilsson - 18 years old

I guess we have different definitions of bleak, cause that list is the definition of bleak to me. It’s all 3Cs and potential 3Cs outside of Larkin.

 

[Frk It]

I think everyone understands the center position needs improvement.
Having said that I don't think it's as bleak as some make it out to be:

Larkin - 25 years old
Suter - 25 years old
Rasmussen - 22 years old
Veleno - 22 years old
Niederbach - 19 years old
Savage - 18 years old
Liam Dower Nilsson - 18 years old

Add a center 1st round in the coming draft and keep exploring trades.

Anyone who has in their head that the Wings are building a Pittsburgh/Edmonton style center lineup needs to get off that idea. Look more at how Chicago won their cups, or LA, St.Louis…

Wings strength needs to come from defense. And if that becomes good enough - it makes it easier to swing trades if the center position is truly all that lackluster.

So young = good?

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Bump.

If hockey kept me up at night, the Wings having abysmal center depth would be the reason why.

Things look bleak down the middle. We have no exciting center youth on the roster, none waiting in Grand Rapids, and our center prospects elsewhere - Niederbach, Phillips, Savage - aren’t moving anybody’s needle.

No good young centers are on the trade market (as they rarely are) and the best free agents are old for our window (Trochek/Kadri), not that great (Domi), or will be in competitive demand and expensive - Hertl - if he makes it to UFA.

To top it all off, the 2022 draft looks bad for (actual, future NHL) centers outside of the top 2 (Cooley, Wright).

I’m at the point where I think we need another tank year in 2023 just for another shot at a top center (and that draft actually has players listed as centers who can actually play center). We can’t keep kicking this can down the road. There’s no point moving forward as a club without strength at center. It’s too important.

You're just suffering from a lack of imagination and a resulting case of center anxiety. Twelve of the 16 teams occupying top four positions in their Divisions -- including the top five by Point Pct -- acquired at least one of their top six centers via trade or in FA. In many cases those acquisitions didn't even cost a lot, either in salary or quality of player(s) given up. Barring a lottery win I expect SY to do the same, either this summer or next. Of course, if he doesn't draft a center in the first round, he should absolutely draft 3-4 with subsequent picks and try to find another Point or Cirelli, like some guy in TB did.

 

[odin1981]

I'm hoping that over the next two draft years we get a top 3 for our hole in the #2 spot. I hope that Pearson can eventually be the new Lgd, and Veleno can be the #3.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

What about Suter? He's young and under contract for one more year. I'm not sure Veleno/Rasmussen last longer than him.

Suter is a solid 2C. In Europe.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You're just suffering from a lack of imagination and a resulting case of center anxiety. Twelve of the 16 teams occupying top four positions in their Divisions -- including the top five by Point Pct -- acquired at least one of their top six centers via trade or in FA. In many cases those acquisitions didn't even cost a lot, either in salary or quality of player(s) given up. Barring a lottery win I expect SY to do the same, either this summer or next. Of course, if he doesn't draft a center in the first round, he should absolutely draft 3-4 with subsequent picks and try to find another Point or Cirelli, like some guy in TB did.

I would also tell people to look at the #2Cs on any cup winner in the last 15+ years that isn't Pittsburgh or maybe Tampa (even though Point was a 3rd round pick but none of our picks have potential to surpass expectations apparently).

Larkin by now should have quieted concerns that he can't be the #1C if he hadn't already. That makes the issue a lot less problematic. A 40-50 point guy with decent two-way play is enough in the #2 slot. Anything more than that and we're probably winning about 10 stanley cups in the next decade.

 

[NickH8]

I would also tell people to look at the #2Cs on any cup winner in the last 15+ years that isn't Pittsburgh or maybe Tampa (even though Point was a 3rd round pick but none of our picks have potential to surpass expectations apparently).

Larkin by now should have quieted concerns that he can't be the #1C if he hadn't already. That makes the issue a lot less problematic. A 40-50 point guy with decent two-way play is enough in the #2 slot. Anything more than that and we're probably winning about 10 stanley cups in the next decade.

Also anything more than that and we're in cap trouble with our #1D and possibly Panarin level winger.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I would also tell people to look at the #2Cs on any cup winner in the last 15+ years that isn't Pittsburgh or maybe Tampa (even though Point was a 3rd round pick but none of our picks have potential to surpass expectations apparently).

Larkin by now should have quieted concerns that he can't be the #1C if he hadn't already. That makes the issue a lot less problematic. A 40-50 point guy with decent two-way play is enough in the #2 slot. Anything more than that and we're probably winning about 10 stanley cups in the next decade.

Yeah Larkin taking things to another level actually puts the Wings in a better position than a year ago. Obviously SY should be trying to acquire someone as close to his quality as possible. I do think it's incredibly important though to keep pumping centers into the pipeline. Larkin won't be around forever and neither will any acquired veteran they insert into the 2C role.

 

[golffuul]

I would also tell people to look at the #2Cs on any cup winner in the last 15+ years that isn't Pittsburgh or maybe Tampa (even though Point was a 3rd round pick but none of our picks have potential to surpass expectations apparently).

Larkin by now should have quieted concerns that he can't be the #1C if he hadn't already. That makes the issue a lot less problematic. A 40-50 point guy with decent two-way play is enough in the #2 slot. Anything more than that and we're probably winning about 10 stanley cups in the next decade.

I have moved on from the "must have 2 franchise centerman" line of thinking since Larkin established himself early on this year. What we don't have are goalscorers and defenseman. Goalscorers are "usually" an easy commodity to acquire but between aging talent, having a 32nd team in the NHL, and the state of our rebuild...we are lacking in that area.

For me, I disagree that we have to draft a center in the first round, unless a high-end "yzerman special" centerman is available with our top pick. You can't just get whatever centerman is available and pray that they develop when you could have taken a big swing on a player that will definitely help us. For me, that means if that high-end center isn't there, than we draft a winger or defenseman. I think that having a really well-rounded high-end team is more important than banking on having two top tier centerman and then adding to fill the gaps. If the only gap we have going forward is to try and cobble a 2nd-line center, somewhere, I think that is a lot easier to get than top-tier finishers and shut-down defensemen.

 

[Henkka]

Bump.
To top it all off, the 2022 draft looks bad for (actual, future NHL) centers outside of the top 2 (Cooley, Wright).

What is this crap?

2022 is THE BEST Center draft for a while.

 

[Frk It]

What is this crap?

2022 is THE BEST Center draft for a while.

There will be 2 centers that go in the top 3 (Wright, Cooley). After that there is 1 surefire center in the range we will be drafting (6-14) in Geekie.

It seems like you are still stuck in the evaluations from last year.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I would also tell people to look at the #2Cs on any cup winner in the last 15+ years that isn't Pittsburgh or maybe Tampa (even though Point was a 3rd round pick but none of our picks have potential to surpass expectations apparently).

Larkin by now should have quieted concerns that he can't be the #1C if he hadn't already. That makes the issue a lot less problematic. A 40-50 point guy with decent two-way play is enough in the #2 slot. Anything more than that and we're probably winning about 10 stanley cups in the next decade.

Look at Colorado. MacKinnon is way better than Larkin. Kadri is #2. He's got 60 pts in 41 games. Their 3rd line center is Newhook. At 21 he's your 40-50 point guy. That's reality. We're nowhere close.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

There will be 2 centers that go in the top 3 (Wright, Cooley). After that there is 1 surefire center in the range we will be drafting (6-14) in Geekie.

It seems like you are still stuck in the evaluations from last year.

Every year the evaluations for next year are amazing until next year arrives. 6 months ago we were a lock to get a #1 center in the top 15. Not so much anymore.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I have moved on from the "must have 2 franchise centerman" line of thinking since Larkin established himself early on this year. What we don't have are goalscorers and defenseman. Goalscorers are "usually" an easy commodity to acquire but between aging talent, having a 32nd team in the NHL, and the state of our rebuild...we are lacking in that area.

For me, I disagree that we have to draft a center in the first round, unless a high-end "yzerman special" centerman is available with our top pick. You can't just get whatever centerman is available and pray that they develop when you could have taken a big swing on a player that will definitely help us. For me, that means if that high-end center isn't there, than we draft a winger or defenseman. I think that having a really well-rounded high-end team is more important than banking on having two top tier centerman and then adding to fill the gaps. If the only gap we have going forward is to try and cobble a 2nd-line center, somewhere, I think that is a lot easier to get than top-tier finishers and shut-down defensemen.

You have to have line drivers. We barely have one. We not only don't have a #2 center good enough for a contending team but at this point we don't have a #3 either. We need help everywhere. So far We have 4 good players and one has one foot out the door.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There will be 2 centers that go in the top 3 (Wright, Cooley). After that there is 1 surefire center in the range we will be drafting (6-14) in Geekie.

It seems like you are still stuck in the evaluations from last year.

Damn, hope there's not a surefire center available at #15 and we miss out because we draft at 14.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Trochek is only 2 years older then Bert and by adding him we would be ready to compete for a playoff spot. Domi has 19 in points in 33 games with only 13:13 of icetime, if you do the math, I think he may be scoring at a higher per 60 minutes clip than Raymond and he has the speed and playmaking ability to play with Vrana.
Savoie is right up there with Wright and Cooley and there are a few other high reward center prospects who are little riskier available in the draft.

Trochek also is the new Joel Ward when it comes to killing us. (So was Suter last year.) He'd be a good addition in that aspect alone.

 

[GMR]

Suter is a solid 2C. In Europe.

Would Veleno or Rasmussen be top centers in Europe?

 

[Frk It]

Damn, hope there's not a surefire center available at #15 and we miss out because we draft at 14.

We won’t be that good, don’t worry.

 

[NickH8]

There will be 2 centers that go in the top 3 (Wright, Cooley). After that there is 1 surefire center in the range we will be drafting (6-14) in Geekie.

It seems like you are still stuck in the evaluations from last year.

I do like how Geekie would slot in on the team with no pressure at all to be 1c. Just focus on his game and be the best player he can be, not be the savior.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Would Veleno or Rasmussen be top centers in Europe?

Maybe. They're younger and still have room to develop. Both are bigger and stronger. Veleno is a superior skater. Both are probably better defensively right now. Suter is basically Damien Brunner. An okay place holder but not an actual NHL player.

 

[Frk It]

I do like how Geekie would slot in on the team with no pressure at all to be 1c. Just focus on his game and be the best player he can be, not be the savior.

I like the player and the fit. There may be some movement with centers over the next coupe months. There are some guys I could see rise into our expected range - Kasper, Del Bel Belluz, Zhilkin, etc

But as things stand, I think a winger or defenseman with the top pick is the most likely outcome. That said, I like a lot of the options with centers in rounds 2/3. I could see us hit that position heavy in those spots. Especially if we pick up another 2 or 3.

 

[Reddwit]

What is this crap?

2022 is THE BEST Center draft for a while.

Consensus is that most of those centers project as wingers at the NHL level.

 

[Gniwder]

Look at Colorado. MacKinnon is way better than Larkin. Kadri is #2. He's got 60 pts in 41 games. Their 3rd line center is Newhook. At 21 he's your 40-50 point guy. That's reality. We're nowhere close.

Kadri was acquired in a trade and Newhook was a mid first round pick.

At some point will have to make a similar trade to acquire a 2C. Too many defensive prospects, not enough centers.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Kadri was acquired in a trade and Newhook was a mid first round pick.

At some point will have to make a similar trade to acquire a 2C. Too many defensive prospects, not enough centers.

I was pointing out that if you want to contend you are gonna need a real center in the 2 slot and a 40-50 pt guy in the 3 slot.
Yes we can trade but I am not convinced we have this abundance of NHL quality D to work with. Certainly not spares that get you a ppg center.