Proposal: Carolina - Vancouver

[zcaptain]

I would like to know if it is a good for both side trade
or who it is bad for and what the Plus would be
Thanks

Boeser + Demko

for

Pesce + 2020-13 OA

Click to read more...

 

[tgo0]

Bad for Carolina.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Why does CAR do it though?
Only way I can see them moving Pesce is if Hamilton is re-signed for a lot more than they thought he would.
They likely pay SEA a 2021 1st to not take one of their exposed D.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

biased but I take pesce>boeser and the pick>demko

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Carolina can't afford the Boeser - Pesce part, imo. The Canes really are not as deep on defense as other fans make it seem. It's viewed in the context of the weaknesses of certain other teams, but they're just about ideal in terms of slot. Slavin - Hamilton - Pesce is a legit 1-2-3. Skjei is hopefully a #4. Fleury played like a 2nd/3rd pairing flex post deadline and in the bubble. Gardiner, based on last season, is a bottom-pairing guy. Bean is a good prospect, but they may already be sewing his name on the back of Kraken jerseys. Keane is solid.

13 is a little too high for Demko, imo. Draft Askarov and sign a goalie this Summer as a 3-5 year bridge, and they're potentially set in net for the next 10-12.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Carolina's farther ahead picking Askarov and throwing money at Holtby while they wait on him to develop.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Carolina can't afford the Boeser - Pesce part, imo. The Canes really are not as deep on defense as other fans make it seem. It's viewed in the context of the weaknesses of certain other teams, but they're just about ideal in terms of slot. Slavin - Hamilton - Pesce is a legit 1-2-3. Skjei is hopefully a #4. Fleury played like a 2nd/3rd pairing flex post deadline and in the bubble. Gardiner, based on last season, is a bottom-pairing guy. Bean is a good prospect, but they may already be sewing his name on the back of Kraken jerseys. Keane is solid.

13 is a little too high for Demko, imo. Draft Askarov and sign a goalie this Summer as a 3-5 year bridge, and they're potentially set in net for the next 10-12.

The goalie market is ripe the next two years, maybe not elite level but stopgaps like you said to provide buffer for Askarov if they draft him at 13th. Whether free agency or goalies with small term left who may be available in trade, they have many options.

 

[Three On Zero]

Bad for both teams

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Bad for both teams

Ehhhh..... maybe but it seems much worse for Carolina

 

[GoldiFox]

Pesce + #43 overall for Boeser + Demko would be closer

Although the Canes aren't really in a position to trade Pesce for a winger. In a hypothetical Pesce deal I think I'd prefer Boeser over Ehlers for the Canes roster but Ehlers has the better contract by a good bit.

 

[Fatass]

Although it’s fair, Canucks won’t do this.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Pesce + #43 overall for Boeser + Demko would be closer

Although the Canes aren't really in a position to trade Pesce for a winger. In a hypothetical Pesce deal I think I'd prefer Boeser over Ehlers for the Canes roster but Ehlers has the better contract by a good bit.

Ya I absolutely hate the idea of trading Pesce right now. The only way I’d consider doing a deal like this is if we were guaranteed to get someone like Tanev or Vatanen in UFA on a good contract and also sign Dougie to an extension. Otherwise our RHD depth is basically non existent

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Although it’s fair, Canucks won’t do this.

Maybe they don’t do the deal do to the optics but value wise it’s easily in their favour.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Maybe they don’t do the deal do to the optics but value wise it’s easily in their favour.

It’s not “easily in their favour”. Value wise it’s pretty dead on imo, but doesn’t make sense for us.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Hughes-Pesce pairing would be perfection.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think it's bad for Carolina but not like "HF" bad, like it's a pretty good opening offer to a negotiation.

Pesce for Boeser is sort of a matter of preference, with each side probably preferring the guy they have. Call it even, or at least within a mid-round pick either way of even.

So now it's Demko for 13OA. I'm not in the boat that says "throw out everything happening in this weird postseason", but at the same time I'm not trading a top 15 pick based on 3 outstanding games from a guy (which is essentially what I'd be doing). I like Demko and I think there's a fit there but 13OA is just not happening straight up for Demko.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

It’s not “easily in their favour”. Value wise it’s pretty dead on imo, but doesn’t make sense for us.

Pesce is worth more than Boeser and the 13OA is worth more than Demko.

Pesce > BB > 13OA > Demko

Canes are giving up the #1 and #3 pieces in terms of value. Not saying the values of the pieces aren’t close but that’s how I see it.

As someone mentioned earlier, change the 13OA to 43OA and I’d say the value is much closer. I don’t think the offer is atrocious or anything and it’s fairly close but I do think it clearly slants value wise in favour of the Canucks. My apologies if I made it sound like it was way off base.

 

[Cogburn]

I think it's bad for Carolina but not like "HF" bad, like it's a pretty good opening offer to a negotiation.

Pesce for Boeser is sort of a matter of preference, with each side probably preferring the guy they have. Call it even, or at least within a mid-round pick either way of even.

So now it's Demko for 13OA. I'm not in the boat that says "throw out everything happening in this weird postseason", but at the same time I'm not trading a top 15 pick based on 3 outstanding games from a guy (which is essentially what I'd be doing). I like Demko and I think there's a fit there but 13OA is just not happening straight up for Demko.

I think you're right about where the discrepancy lies. Pesce is definitely a piece we covet, but Boeser I think gets a lot of flack despite being great in all aspects of the game. If Carolina could afford trading Pesce for a winger, they could do worse. Value is tilted a little towards Pesce IMO, but it's not an insulting difference in value.

Demko for the 13th overall pick would be a huge win for Vancouver. It could be a win for Carolina, but it's a gamble. I want to think that Demko will continue his upward trajectory, but there is nothing close to assurance of that. If Demko had more games under his belt, playing at the level he has, then the value would be even out a little bit. However, given the 42 games in the NHL, this is where the deal falls apart for me, looking at it from a Hurricanes perspective. As a result, a slight difference loss in value from the big pieces, and a big difference in the little pieces, means that Carolina is missing some motivation to make a trade like this (not factoring team need either, I honestly have no idea about the Hurricanes' winger situation).

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think you're right about where the discrepancy lies. Pesce is definitely a piece we covet, but Boeser I think gets a lot of flack despite being great in all aspects of the game. If Carolina could afford trading Pesce for a winger, they could do worse. Value is tilted a little towards Pesce IMO, but it's not an insulting difference in value.

Demko for the 13th overall pick would be a huge win for Vancouver. It could be a win for Carolina, but it's a gamble. I want to think that Demko will continue his upward trajectory, but there is nothing close to assurance of that. If Demko had more games under his belt, playing at the level he has, then the value would be even out a little bit. However, given the 42 games in the NHL, this is where the deal falls apart for me, looking at it from a Hurricanes perspective. As a result, a slight difference loss in value from the big pieces, and a big difference in the little pieces, means that Carolina is missing some motivation to make a trade like this (not factoring team need either, I honestly have no idea about the Hurricanes' winger situation).

Per the bolded, we'd love Boeser. Or Nylander, etc. Unlike the defense position, where you might say "we're set at RHD, thanks", I don't think any team in the league is like "we're set at winger, no Brock Boeser for me thanks". Additional scoring help is definitely on the offseason wishlist and Boeser fits that and more.

Like people mentioned above, changing 13OA to a 2nd round pick starts to move in the right direction. You're generous in your assessment of Pesce/Boeser, let's go with it, slight advantage to Pesce. Demko vs 43OA... slight advantage to Demko? Put them together and you've got the makings of a decent deal, value-wise.

 

[Nucker42]

Bad for Carolina.

Bad for Canucks

 

[Cogburn]

Per the bolded, we'd love Boeser. Or Nylander, etc. Unlike the defense position, where you might say "we're set at RHD, thanks", I don't think any team in the league is like "we're set at winger, no Brock Boeser for me thanks". Additional scoring help is definitely on the offseason wishlist and Boeser fits that and more.

Like people mentioned above, changing 13OA to a 2nd round pick starts to move in the right direction. You're generous in your assessment of Pesce/Boeser, let's go with it, slight advantage to Pesce. Demko vs 43OA... slight advantage to Demko? Put them together and you've got the makings of a decent deal, value-wise.

I would say more then slight for Demko, but I've watched him develop. I'm a huge Demko fan. However I can say, honestly, he is worth more to us then he could possibly fetch on the open market right now. Part of that is that we drafted Demko in the very early second round. That's not to say that is anything to do with Carolina, or that they are expected to pay for him. The difference I think evened out some, so I would make the deal with the adjustment you've suggested But I am wondering if there is a piece that Carolina would prefer to close the gap instead of Demko? Or is a young goalie a position of need for the Hurricanes?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I would say more then slight for Demko, but I've watched him develop. I'm a huge Demko fan. However I can say, honestly, he is worth more to us then he could possibly fetch on the open market right now. Part of that is that we drafted Demko in the very early second round. That's not to say that is anything to do with Carolina, or that they are expected to pay for him. The difference I think evened out some, so I would make the deal with the adjustment you've suggested But I am wondering if there is a piece that Carolina would prefer to close the gap instead of Demko? Or is a young goalie a position of need for the Hurricanes?

That’s fair, if we had a late 1st or an earlier 2nd I’d do it. Maybe another piece, maybe throw in a mid rounder or something to bridge that gap.

 

[Cogburn]

That’s fair, if we had a late 1st or an earlier 2nd I’d do it. Maybe another piece, maybe throw in a mid rounder or something to bridge that gap.

I'll never say no to a free pick, but I'd accept the deal as you proposed. We would have to see how the rest of the off season goes before I get emotionally committed to the idea though.

 

[DaveG]

Carolina's farther ahead picking Askarov and throwing money at Holtby while they wait on him to develop.

Agreed... well not the Holtby part, we're better off just riding what we have for one more season and then signing someone like Raanta as a stop gap the next season.

Honestly no team is better off in net signing Holtby right now.

But trading the #13 when that has a better than even shot at being the guy that looks like the best goalie prospect since Price would be a huge mistake.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Agreed... well not the Holtby part, we're better off just riding what we have for one more season and then signing someone like Raanta as a stop gap the next season.

Honestly no team is better off in net signing Holtby right now.

I don't think Holtby has benefited much from playing behind Washington's defense. Trotz was able to do a lot with what he was given, but Trotz has always been very good as a defensive minded coach.

I know sometimes as a goalie you've gotta step in and stand on your head, but after watching Detroit for the last two years, there's only so much a goalie can do behind shit defense. I'm not comparing Washington's defense to Detroit's, I'm just using Detroit as the absolute extreme example.