Player Discussion Carey Price - Who's Your Daddy? Edition

[Spearmint Rhino]

.925 SV% since Weber came back in the lineup, good enough for 4th in the league in that stretch.

Imagine if we had a Top 4 NHL d-man on the left side

Still he looked liked vintage Price against the Avs

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Your stats are wrong. He is ranked 9th GAA and 12 SV% among starting goalies with at least 25 games started. If you add in every goalie who has played this season, then you are right, but the goalie with the best SV% has played 15 games, so not a starting goalie, and may have faced weaker competition.

I usually refrain from putting something like ~60% of games as a metric for goalies.

When I filter out I care more about removing fluke performances and small samples. I don't think Price should only be compared against starters with 25 games played.

I think you should include all NHL regulars who have played regular NHL minutes. If backup goalies are beating price we should know about it.

Not to mention the 25 game cut off is high even in terms of starters. Only 23 goalies played at least 25 games and obviously some of those make the cut only for coming in relief and not really starting the game.

Now statistics aside I think he's been a lot better as of late and I'm ecstatic. He's my favorite player on the team and I'd be devastated if he continued to struggle. This is a good sign and a good direction he's heading in.

 

[BLONG7]

.925 SV% since Weber came back in the lineup, good enough for 4th in the league in that stretch.

Can't tell that to the haters...there's just no talking to a few on here. He has played much better recently. Has he been perfect? Of course not...once again, looking at our entire team and organization, he is the least of our concern.

As for the $$$ contract, yup he is overpaid...so is Kopitar, Toews. Kane, and so on....every team has a couple of guys who are overpaid, but that's what the GM had to do...so be it.

 

[Bacchus1]

I usually refrain from putting something like ~60% of games as a metric for goalies.

When I filter out I care more about removing fluke performances and small samples. I don't think Price should only be compared against starters with 25 games played.

I think you should include all NHL regulars who have played regular NHL minutes. If backup goalies are beating price we should know about it.

Not to mention the 25 game cut off is high even in terms of starters. Only 23 goalies played at least 25 games and obviously some of those make the cut only for coming in relief and not really starting the game.

Now statistics aside I think he's been a lot better as of late and I'm ecstatic. He's my favorite player on the team and I'd be devastated if he continued to struggle. This is a good sign and a good direction he's heading in.

I wouldn’t necessarily put the bar at 60%, but I think it is close to what should be considered a starter, as it is only 9% over 51%, which is the bare minimum for a “starter”. Honestly, I just looked at the NHL stats on iOS, and it seemed fair enough.

25 games is also a pretty small sample. Price has played 35 games, and had a bad stretch and was missing his #1 D. He got a shutout last nigh, and his save percentage went up 0.002, from .908 to .910. If he plays as well as he has since Weber returned it will go up, but only slowly. I can still see Price ending up top 5 in the league if he plays like he can and avoids injury.

This was a season that we were supposed to batting for a lottery pick, and somehow we are in the playoff race. Our fate has not been determined. The same for Price. Based on the last 10-15 games he has been quite good. Let’s see if the start of the season was an aberration or a sign of things to come.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Can't tell that to the haters...there's just no talking to a few on here. He has played much better recently. Has he been perfect? Of course not...once again, looking at our entire team and organization, he is the least of our concern.

As for the $$$ contract, yup he is overpaid...so is Kopitar, Toews. Kane, and so on....every team has a couple of guys who are overpaid, but that's what the GM had to do...so be it.

His contract isn't like theirs. Kane and Toews won 3 cups and Kane isn't in least bit overpaid.

Kopitar has been hot and cold, 92 points last year and on pace for under PPG this year so yeah, that's fine.


The difference between price and these guys though is when the contract ends.

Toews will be 35 when it ends
Kane will be 34 when it ends
Kopitar will be 36(going on 37) when it ends
Price will be 38(going on 39) when it ends

It's not paying Price 10.5 mil that's the problem, it's paying him that until he's close to 39.

But...as you said that's what GM had to do. Price had played so well his last contract he essentially had a blank cheque.

 

[BLONG7]

His contract isn't like theirs. Kane and Toews won 3 cups and Kane isn't in least bit overpaid.

Kopitar has been hot and cold, 92 points last year and on pace for under PPG this year so yeah, that's fine.


The difference between price and these guys though is when the contract ends.

Toews will be 35 when it ends
Kane will be 34 when it ends
Kopitar will be 36(going on 37) when it ends
Price will be 38(going on 39) when it ends

It's not paying Price 10.5 mil that's the problem, it's paying him that until he's close to 39.

But...as you said that's what GM had to do. Price had played so well his last contract he essentially had a blank cheque.

Agreed....I just used those 3 guys as an example, there are overpaid guys on every team...and they have also not won Cups...the $$$ is result of the market at the time, and the pressure and circumstances put on each GM. The $$$ is going to get foolish because the cap keeps rising....the one thing we have in regard to that manner, we are handi capped with a clown GM.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I wouldn’t necessarily put the bar at 60%, but I think it is close to what should be considered a starter, as it is only 9% over 51%, which is the bare minimum for a “starter”. Honestly, I just looked at the NHL stats on iOS, and it seemed fair enough.

25 games is also a pretty small sample. Price has played 35 games, and had a bad stretch and was missing his #1 D. He got a shutout last nigh, and his save percentage went up 0.002, from .908 to .910. If he plays as well as he has since Weber returned it will go up, but only slowly. I can still see Price ending up top 5 in the league if he plays like he can and avoids injury.

This was a season that we were supposed to batting for a lottery pick, and somehow we are in the playoff race. Our fate has not been determined. The same for Price. Based on the last 10-15 games he has been quite good. Let’s see if the start of the season was an aberration or a sign of things to come.

The ~60% comes from 25/46 which gives 54%. I didn't bother doing the math so we'll say ~55% instead. That's the threshold you put.

What I'm struggling with is why aren't we comparing Price to backup goalies though? If they've played a reasonable number of games and are NHL regulars...why not?

I'm not trying to discredit Price but I see no point in cutting his competition down to 23 players(as the 25 game cut off does). You should have the top 62 players which would put cut off at 10 games played. That would mean 1 starter and 1 backup for 31 teams. It may not seem important to compare Price to everyone including backups but wouldn't you want to know if your franchise starter is being outplayed by a backup or not?

You're right in that a SO can jump him up a few points and I'm hoping he gets plenty more but I see no benefit in not including backup goalies. Just my personal opinion.

 

[ahmedou]

Been always a bless regarding him refinding his mojo back once in a while. Those vintage Pricer prestations, a Grade A. Quiet place when it's okay huh?

 

[PaulD]

Had to give Price that contract to keep him.

like putting lipstick on a pig


Lottery teams can really take advantage of 10.5 million dollar goalies.

 

[peate]

I admit I'm critical of Price when he doesn't live up to his contract, but I must say, he's brilliant lately. So much fun to watch him when he's on. If he continues at that pace, we're a lock for a wild card.

 

[Scriptor]

The ~60% comes from 25/46 which gives 54%. I didn't bother doing the math so we'll say ~55% instead. That's the threshold you put.

What I'm struggling with is why aren't we comparing Price to backup goalies though? If they've played a reasonable number of games and are NHL regulars...why not?

I'm not trying to discredit Price but I see no point in cutting his competition down to 23 players(as the 25 game cut off does). You should have the top 62 players which would put cut off at 10 games played. That would mean 1 starter and 1 backup for 31 teams. It may not seem important to compare Price to everyone including backups but wouldn't you want to know if your franchise starter is being outplayed by a backup or not?

You're right in that a SO can jump him up a few points and I'm hoping he gets plenty more but I see no benefit in not including backup goalies. Just my personal opinion.

We aren't comparing Price to backup Gs because they don't get the same match-ups as starting Gs. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Genesis76]

Colorado are 1-7-2 in their last 10 games


Just saying

 

[LeHab]

Since latest injury return & baby Jesus birth he is
.946
1.63

in 5 games (2-3)

Looking good in 2019 so far.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I usually refrain from putting something like ~60% of games as a metric for goalies.

When I filter out I care more about removing fluke performances and small samples. I don't think Price should only be compared against starters with 25 games played.

I think you should include all NHL regulars who have played regular NHL minutes. If backup goalies are beating price we should know about it.

Not to mention the 25 game cut off is high even in terms of starters. Only 23 goalies played at least 25 games and obviously some of those make the cut only for coming in relief and not really starting the game.

Now statistics aside I think he's been a lot better as of late and I'm ecstatic. He's my favorite player on the team and I'd be devastated if he continued to struggle. This is a good sign and a good direction he's heading in.

Taking 25 games as sample size at the halfway point is including all the starters as it’s a 50 game pace.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

i dont understand comments like this,

even if you put his contract aside, and have it be a non factor,

he is 38th in SV% and 36th in GAA

how can that be playing very well?

there are only 31 teams FFS

even if Price was making 2 Mil a season, its still not "playing very well"

boston fans crap on rask, washington fans crap on holtby, dallas fans crap on bishop and they are all ranked ABOVE PRICE....yet price gets a free pass around here no matter how bad he plays

If you just remove all his bad games he


He's been very good.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Taking 25 games as sample size at the halfway point is including all the starters as it’s a 50 game pace.

Right.

It doesn't make sense to include guys who've played five games. There's a huge difference between looking at 30 plus games and five. Even guys at 25 might be part timers.

 

[Bacchus1]

The ~60% comes from 25/46 which gives 54%. I didn't bother doing the math so we'll say ~55% instead. That's the threshold you put.

What I'm struggling with is why aren't we comparing Price to backup goalies though? If they've played a reasonable number of games and are NHL regulars...why not?

I'm not trying to discredit Price but I see no point in cutting his competition down to 23 players(as the 25 game cut off does). You should have the top 62 players which would put cut off at 10 games played. That would mean 1 starter and 1 backup for 31 teams. It may not seem important to compare Price to everyone including backups but wouldn't you want to know if your franchise starter is being outplayed by a backup or not?

You're right in that a SO can jump him up a few points and I'm hoping he gets plenty more but I see no benefit in not including backup goalies. Just my personal opinion.

If a team has back to back games coming up, and one is against a tough team, and the other is against a bad team out of the playoffs , and the coach has decided to give their starter one game off ... how many teams would let their backup play against the easy team?

This, and other non-leveled playing field, is why you can’t judge starters and backups.

 

[cactusjack]

If a team has back to back games coming up, and one is against a tough team, and the other is against a bad team out of the playoffs , and the coach has decided to give their starter one game off ... how many teams would let their backup play against the easy team?

This, and other non-leveled playing field, is why you can’t judge starters and backups.

I agree that you don't want to judge starters vs backups because playing once a week is "easy". But at the same time, more often than not, the backup plays on the back end of a back-to-back behind a tired team.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I agree that you don't want to judge starters vs backups because playing once a week is "easy". But at the same time, more often than not, the backup plays on the back end of a back-to-back behind a tired team.

This isn’t completely true. I kind of agree that the second game usually is a little more difficult due to fatigue. But who starts which game is completely up to the coaches discretion and your number one is usually going to get the tougher match up. It’s not written in stone at all that the starter gets the first game, in fact a lot of the times it’s the opposite. The only time we really see Price for example start the first game of a back to back will be when we’re playing on a Saturday and Sunday, and I think that has more to do with his record on Saturday nights.

 

[Genesis76]

Right.

It doesn't make sense to include guys who've played five games. There's a huge difference between looking at 30 plus games and five. Even guys at 25 might be part timers.

Right.


Lets just call him the best in the world bcuz at the end thats whst tge script says

 

[nhlfan9191]

Right.


Lets just call him the best in the world bcuz at the end thats whst tge script says

You’d be more satisfied with Price struggling then this team winning another cup and that pisses me off. If you’re so unhappy with the Subban and Halak trades, go into the Boston and Nashville threads. Absolutely f****ing childish with your trolling.

 

[Genesis76]

You’d be more satisfied with Price struggling then this team winning another cup and that pisses me off. If you’re so unhappy with the Subban and Halak trades, go into the Boston and Nashville threads. Absolutely f****ing childish with your trolling.

Oh relax buddy, you’re not even a Price fan. its ok to shit on Benn, Alzner but not on Price...who is childish. I’m bringing a valid different perspective. You’re the one who is hurting the fan base by throwing sand in peoples eyes. Facts are facts, when Niemi plays well againts weaker teams you’re the first one to mention it.

He had a shutout againts a team that was 1-7-2. Is it a bad thing to mention it? Are we supposed to all be happy about the result? Are we not allowed to have some degree of critical thinking?

Go ahead and ignore me if it bothers you what im saying, im not going to change my allegiance because some random dude on the internet wants me too.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

We aren't comparing Price to backup Gs because they don't get the same match-ups as starting Gs. Does that make sense to you?

Of course but if a 2nd line dramatically outproduces a 1st liner do we say 'yeah but he's not up against top competition'? To a degree...we might but there are limitations.

If Price is sporting a 0.910 save % and a backup has .930 you can't point to matchups and call it a day.

Taking 25 games as sample size at the halfway point is including all the starters as it’s a 50 game pace.

But why only starters? There's been plenty of teams who'd backups have emerged as starters. At one point we had Halak/Price and Vancouver had Schneider/Luongo and Talbot was backup to Lundqvist...etc....

Why are capable backups not good to compare to? As I said above I'm more than happy to take games played, matchups and all that into consideration when comparing them but they should be on the table.

The system proposed (25 games played) limited the number of goalies to 23. It doesn't even include all starters. It should be top 62 in games played...no fringe guys with a fluke performance.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Right.

It doesn't make sense to include guys who've played five games. There's a huge difference between looking at 30 plus games and five. Even guys at 25 might be part timers.

No one said to include guys who played 5 games. I proposed taking top 62(starter and backup) which was about 10 games yesterday. It's early in the season but that would likely jump to 30 or so by end of the year. Is 30 games not worth looking at? Top 62 is what should be considered IMO.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Of course but if a 2nd line dramatically outproduces a 1st liner do we say 'yeah but he's not up against top competition'? To a degree...we might but there are limitations.

If Price is sporting a 0.910 save % and a backup has .930 you can't point to matchups and call it a day.



But why only starters? There's been plenty of teams who'd backups have emerged as starters. At one point we had Halak/Price and Vancouver had Schneider/Luongo and Talbot was backup to Lundqvist...etc....

Why are capable backups not good to compare to? As I said above I'm more than happy to take games played, matchups and all that into consideration when comparing them but they should be on the table.

The system proposed (25 games played) limited the number of goalies to 23. It doesn't even include all starters. It should be top 62 in games played...no fringe guys with a fluke performance.

Luongo and Lundqvist were still starting 50+ games when Schneider and Talbot were around and Price did too one of the years with Halak. If your starting less then 50, the goalie is likely in a rotation, dealing with injuries, or a backup. I don’t like comparing the guys actually pulling weight to the ones with a smaller sample size. It’s much more difficult to be the guy relied on a nightly basis then it is to come once in awhile or split starts. As for the system limiting it to 23 goalies, I’m fine with that as your comparing them on a more realistic playing field. There usually isn’t 30-31 starters every year anyways whether it’s somebody falling off or injuries.