Player Discussion Carey Price *Vezina nominee* Edition

[LaP]

Condon is fine for a while but he can't handle the workload of a real #1 and we saw it last year. He was decent at the beginning but then struggled mightily as the season went on.

We saw it this year too. His first half was better than his 2nd half. Not as bad as last year but he still slowed down a little bit.

He posted a sub 900 saves % in 9 of his last 19 starts this year. He was 9-7-3 in his last 19 starts.

He posted a sub 900 saves % in 7 of his 19 first starts. He was 10-6-3.

Like last year he started on fire. He posted a sub 900 saves % in only 1 of his first 6 starts. He was 4-1-1.

 

[Uncle Gary]

Condon is not a good goalie. Never will be. Yes he played behind an awful team last year but he still let is tons of weak goals that no goalie should let in consistently. I'm not going to pretend that I watched every game last year but when I did watch he always let one in early. I had another hot streak this year but then really struggled after that again.

As for Price, I would offer him $8.5 Max. Never going to win with a goalie making much more than that. This team is probably going to turn into a worse version of the Rangers, who have come close but never close enough. Built around a great goalie who ensures playoffs but too many flaws and bad enough management that they never win.

 

[Price is Wright]

You can pay Price $10 million per season and it's fine if you don't have Emelin, Plekanec, and Shaw making $14 million combined.

$10 million sounds outrageous​ until you realize it's Price's contract + Emelin. The Habs wouldn't be any worse without Emelin.

Pay your stars. Discount the depth.

 

[BLONG7]

He played 40 games at .915 this year.

At one point, he started 27 games in a row...yes folks 27 games in a row...Sens didn't plummet in the standings like the Habs did last year, they can actually score some goals...

 

[scrubadam]

You can pay Price $10 million per season and it's fine if you don't have Emelin, Plekanec, and Shaw making $14 million combined.

$10 million sounds outrageous​ until you realize it's Price's contract + Emelin. The Habs wouldn't be any worse without Emelin.

Pay your stars. Discount the depth.

So habs will sign a 4D/2/3C/ and top 9 winger for league minimum?

Yes those aren't great contracts but every team will have those contracts you need players on your team. The bad contracts are offset by the habs great contracts like Max/Byron/AG (bridge) etc...

Its not as easy as just don't sign bad contracts every single team has overpaid players.

Lets say habs drop Shaw/Emelin/Pleks who replaces those guys at 1 or 2 Million each? Or will the team be full of AHL players to accommodate Prices contract?

Pleks is supposed to be a 2C. Drop him but where will the habs find a 2C that cost a fraction of Prices contract? Emelin should be habs 4D. Which 2 Million D will replaces him? Unless you are expecting miracles over Prices 8 year contract where every draft pick on ELC explodes and every waiver wire pick up returns 5x on their contract like Byron.

 

[WG]

So habs will sign a 4D/2/3C/ and top 9 winger for league minimum?

Yes those aren't great contracts but every team will have those contracts you need players on your team. The bad contracts are offset by the habs great contracts like Max/Byron/AG (bridge) etc...

Its not as easy as just don't sign bad contracts every single team has overpaid players.

Lets say habs drop Shaw/Emelin/Pleks who replaces those guys at 1 or 2 Million each? Or will the team be full of AHL players to accommodate Prices contract?

Pleks is supposed to be a 2C. Drop him but where will the habs find a 2C that cost a fraction of Prices contract? Emelin should be habs 4D. Which 2 Million D will replaces him? Unless you are expecting miracles over Prices 8 year contract where every draft pick on ELC explodes and every waiver wire pick up returns 5x on their contract like Byron.

Finding try-hard grinders for the bottom 6 and 4-5-6D is not some monumental challenge. We acquired Benn, he makes about 1M, I would certainly be fine with him in Emelin's role. You don't think we could find another guy as good as Benn for cheap? As for Shawzie, well that was completely self inflicted based on Bergy's infatuaton with the Blackhawks. We had Weise a year ago doing the 'Agitator who gets too much time in the top 6 and chips in 25 points' role for $1M, again you don't think you could find another guy as good as that without dealing high picks and paying $4M? How about just keeping Kassian, scored 24 pts on their 4th line, plays tough and makes $1.5M. But no, addiction = no character, trade you for Scrivenza, make room for 'gay slur' Shawzie to give us all a dose of real character.

That's two guys easily replaceable at 2-4M vs. the 8M we're currently paying.

 

[Belial]

You can pay Price $10 million per season and it's fine if you don't have Emelin, Plekanec, and Shaw making $14 million combined.

$10 million sounds outrageous until you realize it's Price's contract + Emelin. The Habs wouldn't be any worse without Emelin.

Pay your stars. Discount the depth.

I think you completely miss the point.

You can have a Holtby at 6M and a Roman Josi at 4M per year instead of Price at 10M

I don't think Price is a Roman Josi better than Holtby.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I think you completely miss the point.

You can have a Holtby at 6M and a Roman Josi at 4M per year instead of Price at 10M

I don't think Price is a Roman Josi better than Holtby.

[mod] Roman Josi's contract is an anomaly. He is not a 4 million dollar dman and you know that. If Josi didn't lock himself into that contract he'd be making 7-8 million, not 4.

You aren't going to be able to go out and get a Josi level dman for 4 million. For 4 million you're looking at guys like Muzzin or Klingberg more than you are Josi.

Your Holtby example is also terrible [mod]. You can point to Holtby making 6.1 million but how do you propose we acquire a Holtby level goaltender for 6.1 million? Trade for him? You don't just get to invent him out of thin air.

 

[Belial]

I know I went to an extreme to emphasize my point but the point still stands.

You can do a lot of things with 4M in cap.

 

[Hockeyholic]

The problem with Price is two fold: He's good enough to keep the team out of a top five draft spot, yet not God enough to win a cup by himself. That's the " Problem" locking him up long term. This franchise is probably in the worst shape of any team going forward.

 

[mariolemieux66]

The problem with Price is two fold: He's good enough to keep the team out of a top five draft spot, yet not God enough to win a cup by himself. That's the " Problem" locking him up long term. This franchise is probably in the worst shape of any team going forward.

Yep!

 

[OldCraig71]

Condon is totally fine. His first season with the Habs he was a rookie and playing with an incredibly weak team in front of him.

Condon is the reason that the Sens are even in the playoffs.

 

[Brainiac]

I think you completely miss the point.

You can have a Holtby at 6M and a Roman Josi at 4M per year instead of Price at 10M

I don't think Price is a Roman Josi better than Holtby.

Interesting way of putting units in there.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think you completely miss the point.

You can have a Holtby at 6M and a Roman Josi at 4M per year instead of Price at 10M

I don't think Price is a Roman Josi better than Holtby.

As Ken Dryden said "I was a good goalie playing on a great team. Price is a great goalie playing on a good team." He made that statement a year or two ago, but I don't even consider this team good anymore with so many guys on our team underachieving at the same time, but this applies to Holtby. He isn't that great, he's good, but the players in front of him has more to do with his success. The team in front of Price on the other hand hampers his success. Holtby has been awful the past three series he's played in the playoffs, and the Penguins exposed him twice.

 

[Belial]

As Ken Dryden said "I was a good goalie playing on a great team. Price is a great goalie playing on a good team." He made that statement a year or two ago, but I don't even consider this team good anymore with so many guys on our team underachieving at the same time, but this applies to Holtby. He isn't that great, he's good, but the players in front of him has more to do with his success. The team in front of Price on the other hand hampers his success. Holtby has been awful the past three series he's played in the playoffs, and the Penguins exposed him twice.

I think you should reassess your whole thing because Holtby is clearly not the problem down there.

Holtby has a freaking .932 Sv% in the PO!!!

Best goalie in the universe is at .919 ...

 

[pepperMonkey]

So habs will sign a 4D/2/3C/ and top 9 winger for league minimum?

Yes those aren't great contracts but every team will have those contracts you need players on your team. The bad contracts are offset by the habs great contracts like Max/Byron/AG (bridge) etc...

Its not as easy as just don't sign bad contracts every single team has overpaid players.

Lets say habs drop Shaw/Emelin/Pleks who replaces those guys at 1 or 2 Million each? Or will the team be full of AHL players to accommodate Prices contract?

Pleks is supposed to be a 2C. Drop him but where will the habs find a 2C that cost a fraction of Prices contract? Emelin should be habs 4D. Which 2 Million D will replaces him? Unless you are expecting miracles over Prices 8 year contract where every draft pick on ELC explodes and every waiver wire pick up returns 5x on their contract like Byron.

Oh please, just stop with the Price cap problem that doesn't exist.
Look, say worse comes to worst and he's signed on an 8 year 10mill contract, do you really think that would kill all chance of fielding a competitive team?

Look at the Pittsburgh Penguins.
(only listing those that have a 5 mil cap hit and over)
9.5 mil Malkin
8.7 mil Crosby
7.25 mil Letang
6.8 mil Kessel
5.75 mil MAF

And the Habs
7.85 mill Weber
6.5 mil Price
6.0 mil Plek
5.75 mil Markov
5.75 mil Rads
5.5 mil Petry

If the Pens can afford two top C's at 9.5 and 8.7, plus Kessel and Letang we can certainly afford Price in the 9-10 range and still have a C in the 8-9 range. Heck, we have a ton of players we could jettison in the 1mill range, let alone Pleks, Emelin's caps. A good GM can make Prices cap work. Just because MB may not be able to handle means squat because if that's the case, chances are he wouldn't be able to handle it even if Price was making just 1 mil.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Carey, do yourself a favor and get out of here while you still can.

 

[Genesis76]

Carey, do yourself a favor and get out of here while you still can.

The only team that would be ready to massively overpay for him would be Las Vegas.

Because the Price is always right in Las Vegas

 

[bsl]

The whole premise of trading Price because we can get someone almost as good for a fraction of the cap hit would imply that other teams wouldn't give up a lot in a trade for Price because they too should be able to find someone almost as good for a fraction of the cap hit.

If it's easy to find a cheaper/almost as good goalie, then Price doesn't have great trade value. If it's hard to find a cheaper/almost as good goalie, then why are we trading Price?

By the same reasoning, why should Habs pay price more than 8 mill?

Bergy has to sign price to 8 mill or less this summer or I'm done with him.

 

[bsl]

8x8 for Carey, I wouldn't go higher than that.

Agreed. And given the injury history even that makes me nervous.

I predicted a huge debate on price last year and it has begun.

And to the guys throwing numbers like 10 and 12 mill around.

I reserve the 10 mill for Tavares thanks. Price probably would too.

 

[bsl]

We are a bottom feeder, AHL type of club without Price...it's already been proven.

He was MT's savior for almost 5 yrs, and he is now MB's meal ticket to surviving another 2-3 seasons...he will be signed, and the cap hit will not be insane at all, he is our BEST player.

We cannot score goals, and somehow some of you want to get rid of the guy who keeps us in the games night in and night out? We need skilled players to compliment our all star goalie...we need a GM who has some vision...We need to develop players better...
We don't need to trade our best player...seriously.

Can we clear up some confusion here? I and some others here are not advocating trading price. We are advocating signing him to a reasonable contract. For me given his age, injury history and playoff record that is 8 mill.

You want Tavares? You'll need 10 or even 11 mill to sign him long term. You can't have price and Tavares taking 21 mill of cap.

I want both price and Tavares on this team. And to do that price should be reasonable. Becuase he'll want Tavares too.

Too much emo and muddy thinking here guys.

 

[bsl]

The problem with Price is two fold: He's good enough to keep the team out of a top five draft spot, yet not God enough to win a cup by himself. That's the " Problem" locking him up long term. This franchise is probably in the worst shape of any team going forward.

You are correct. It seems to be 8 year cycles with teams now and Habs are finishing a third cycle with no cup. And nothing in the cupboard.

Time to finish this cycle with Tavares and price. Or we're looking at another 8 years.

 

[bsl]

As Ken Dryden said "I was a good goalie playing on a great team. Price is a great goalie playing on a good team." He made that statement a year or two ago, but I don't even consider this team good anymore with so many guys on our team underachieving at the same time, but this applies to Holtby. He isn't that great, he's good, but the players in front of him has more to do with his success. The team in front of Price on the other hand hampers his success. Holtby has been awful the past three series he's played in the playoffs, and the Penguins exposed him twice.

Dryden is right as far as that goes. But he was being modest.

Dryden killed the bruins in the playoffs and Chicago in 71. Price has never done that.

Keep price. But for ****s sake don't pay him more than 8.5.

 

[bsl]

Oh please, just stop with the Price cap problem that doesn't exist.
Look, say worse comes to worst and he's signed on an 8 year 10mill contract, do you really think that would kill all chance of fielding a competitive team?

Look at the Pittsburgh Penguins.
(only listing those that have a 5 mil cap hit and over)
9.5 mil Malkin
8.7 mil Crosby
7.25 mil Letang
6.8 mil Kessel
5.75 mil MAF

And the Habs
7.85 mill Weber
6.5 mil Price
6.0 mil Plek
5.75 mil Markov
5.75 mil Rads
5.5 mil Petry

If the Pens can afford two top C's at 9.5 and 8.7, plus Kessel and Letang we can certainly afford Price in the 9-10 range and still have a C in the 8-9 range. Heck, we have a ton of players we could jettison in the 1mill range, let alone Pleks, Emelin's caps. A good GM can make Prices cap work. Just because MB may not be able to handle means squat because if that's the case, chances are he wouldn't be able to handle it even if Price was making just 1 mil.

You think Tavares is going to sign at 8.7 like Crosby?

And you get kessel at 6.8? Retained yes but how often does that happen.

And letang at 7.25.

Price will kill Habs 2 year window if he asks for more than 8. They need a hell of a lot of money elsewhere.

We will see. If he does not sign at 8 this summer than he probably doesn't give a **** or believes in winning a cup with Habs.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think you completely miss the point.

You can have a Holtby at 6M and a Roman Josi at 4M per year instead of Price at 10M

I don't think Price is a Roman Josi better than Holtby.

Great idea. Let's go trade Price for Holtby and Josi then.

Oh wait...