Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Wings - 2pm start *

[Coldplay619]

Well Ovi usually plays well against the Rangers.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

I've said it all year. Ovi has slowed down and he lacks the aggression/energy in his game. Watch him closely next game and you will notice he doesn't engage in puck battles and if he does, he loses every one. He just watches and waits for his line mates to get the puck back. Unbelievably frustrating to watch.

Or maybe he's going through a rough patch. He's human, right? That machine joke has taken on a life of its own.

 

[peterthegreat12]

Or maybe he's going through a rough patch. He's human, right? That machine joke has taken on a life of its own.

I don't expect him to score every night. Not at all. I'm more concerned by a lack of worth ethic, not the scoring. He needs to find a way to make an impact on the game when he isn't scoring, beyond being a decoy, and that means winning puck battles.

 

[Valhuen]

Is anyone else worried about Ovi? He's been playing like this for most of the season. The Caps aren't winning anything until he gets his head out of his ass. The depth is winning the Caps games now but he needs to get going eventually before it's too late.

Ovi is simply not leading by example right now, and I don't think we will go far in the playoffs with him coasting night to night, depth or no depth. Would be nice to grab some skilled veteran leadership at the deadline that would also improve our chances.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Ovechkin will be fine, he's one of the best players to ever lace 'em up. His calling card despite being streaky is consistency over the long haul. I'm not the least bit worried about him. Especially not while the team looks dominant and has won just about every game they've played over a long stretch.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Take the point, get on the plane, prepare for tomorrow.

I doubt it will be pretty.

Rangers are getting a whooping tomorroW!

 

[AtNightWeFly]

I don't expect him to score every night. Not at all. I'm more concerned by a lack of worth ethic, not the scoring. He needs to find a way to make an impact on the game when he isn't scoring, beyond being a decoy, and that means winning puck battles.

Lets hope it is work ethic because that's easy to fix. Loss of skill as someone suggested is not.

And they need to start feeding him on the PP more its getting ridiculous. Kuzy made that great pass to him and got him engaged.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Btw props to Orpik.....whipped Ott good.

 

[twabby]

Sucks to lose but I didn't think it was that bad of a performance. They were clearly rusty for a period and Mrazek was excellent once they shook off the rust.

Edit: ^^yes indeed. I'm not normally a fan of fighting but I can always get behind Steve Ott getting punched.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Sucks to lose but I didn't think it was that bad of a performance. They were clearly rusty for a period and Mrazek was excellent once they shook off the rust.

Edit: ^^yes indeed. I'm not normally a fan of fighting but I can always get behind Steve Ott getting punched.

Especially after he patted Williams on the head when Mrazek robbed him.

 

[hockeykicker]

Holtby said he was starting to cramp up late in game and in shootout

 

[artilector]

To get a point was a pretty good result today.

As for Ovi, again, the limited effort is not some new thing to worry about. If anything, his backcheck is much better than it used to be. In reality, everything was glossed over by lots of goals -- so when that dries up people start noticing the other stuff.

I'm not sure I see a big decline in ability, either. Surely, he's getting slower, but it's not particularly drastic year-to-year. Puck control issues are also nothing new, and not unexpected after a week off.

He is what he is -- a world-class turret that still has some moves and an underrated passing ability. I'm more concerned about Backstrom's line's overall speed in playoffs (or ability to negate speed).

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

To get a point was a pretty good result today.

As for Ovi, again, the limited effort is not some new thing to worry about. If anything, his backcheck is much better than it used to be. In reality, everything was glossed over by lots of goals -- so when that dries up people start noticing the other stuff.

I'm not sure I see a big decline in ability, either. Surely, he's getting slower, but it's not particularly drastic year-to-year. Puck control issues are also nothing new, and not unexpected after a week off.

He is what he is -- a world-class turret that still has some moves and an underrated passing ability. I'm more concerned about Backstrom's line's overall speed in playoffs (or ability to negate speed).

The Backstrom line excelled last year in the playoffs, all 3 players were dangerous. They can play the game fast just like they did in the previous weeks, just need to get their heads out of their rear ends.

 

[txpd]

its hard to criticize Ovechkin not knowing anything about what's going on. Trotz has said in the past that he is injured all the time. He plays anyway. Almost every game. On a game where he seemed pretty quiet, the NBC crew did a complete segment on his defense and passing.

Maybe he is hurt. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he is going over the hill. Maybe he is doing what Trotz has asked him to do. He is not much for complaining.

 

[Langway]

At this stage both Ovechkin and Carlson are my biggest concerns with this lineup. From what I saw today, Carlson looked to be no fresher after the time off. It seemed quite the contrary with him sucking wind after shifts and being just as sluggish as usual.

Niskanen has turned into quite the addition but it's unfortunate Carlson hasn't taken the next step to really solidify their back-end play. He's still fairly productive but the combination of his questionable cardio and losing the PP1 spot make them less formidable in some ways. When Orlov and Schmidt are attacking 5-on-5 and they're systeming along it's one thing but they're going to need consistent top-end performance to go deep. Trotz needs to find a way to get more out of Carlson and Ovechkin and a big part of it is putting Carlson back on PP1 and making it work. Niskanen isn't the answer there and there's no excuse for the point men in general not being able to feed Ovechkin cleanly. They should practice the **** out of that.

If guys are playing hurt to the point where their performance is beside the point then enjoy the Presidents' Trophy I guess. They were rusty. Most every team has been rusty off of their break but top-end guys have to set the tone better.

 

[Sam Spade]

At this stage both Ovechkin and Carlson are my biggest concerns with this lineup. From what I saw today, Carlson looked to be no fresher after the time off. It seemed quite the contrary with him sucking wind after shifts and being just as sluggish as usual.

Caps are set then because unless this year is different from all the other years they will be the two guys who show up the most come playoff time.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Caps are set then because unless this year is different from all the other years they will be the two guys who show up the most come playoff time.

What if they don't? They need to find their groove back ASAP.

 

[ovikovy817]

Just watched the game in replay.
We finally started to play after the Tatar's goal, but even with a sloppy first part of the game, we deserved to get 2 points and a ROW.

Sanford doesn't want to sit in the pressbox :

 

[twabby]

I'm concerned about Ovechkin but I really think a lot of his poor play is because he and Backstrom don't have the same ES chemistry they used to have. I'd highly consider flipping Kuznetsov and Backstrom. 8-92-77 can and have played a very fast and effective transition game, while 90-19-14 can and have played an effective cycling, possession game and should be used as the shutdown line.

It's frustrating seeing the 8-19-77 line amongst the worst possession lines on the team night in and night out. Their individual talent level allows them to typically score a decent amount but it's far from an optimized lineup decision IMO, seeing as they were a pretty poor relative possession line last season too and the alternative top 6 I mentioned routinely had dominant possession (and goal) numbers.

Here's a post I made about my ideal top 6 in the analytics thread

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I'm concerned about Ovechkin but I really think a lot of his poor play is because he and Backstrom don't have the same ES chemistry they used to have. I'd highly consider flipping Kuznetsov and Backstrom. 8-92-77 can and have played a very fast and effective transition game, while 90-19-14 can and have played an effective cycling, possession game and should be used as the shutdown line.

It's frustrating seeing the 8-19-77 line amongst the worst possession lines on the team night in and night out. Their individual talent level allows them to typically score a decent amount but it's far from an optimized lineup decision IMO, seeing as they were a pretty poor relative possession line last season too and the alternative top 6 I mentioned routinely had dominant possession (and goal) numbers.

Here's a post I made about my ideal top 6 in the analytics thread

It's a tough call. 8-92-77 plays better offensively, but Backstrom and Oshie have great chemistry together and defend very well. It comes down to #8, he's gotta be better than what he's shown lately.

 

[Coldplay619]

The 8-19-77 line is just so goddamn slow.

It's the only line where we don't have somebody who can spread the ice.

At they're best they barely tilt the ice when it comes to possession.

It'll be interesting to see if changes are made if we struggle a little bit coming out of the break.

 

[artilector]

I'm concerned about Ovechkin but I really think a lot of his poor play is because he and Backstrom don't have the same ES chemistry they used to have. I'd highly consider flipping Kuznetsov and Backstrom. 8-92-77 can and have played a very fast and effective transition game, while 90-19-14 can and have played an effective cycling, possession game and should be used as the shutdown line.

It's frustrating seeing the 8-19-77 line amongst the worst possession lines on the team night in and night out. Their individual talent level allows them to typically score a decent amount but it's far from an optimized lineup decision IMO, seeing as they were a pretty poor relative possession line last season too and the alternative top 6 I mentioned routinely had dominant possession (and goal) numbers.

Here's a post I made about my ideal top 6 in the analytics thread

I'm not against it, and I do agree that in general Backstrom and Ovi don't really fit at 5-on-5, but somehow I don't expect great results from swapping Backstrom & Kuz.

A couple of questions come to mind:

1. Kuz and Ovi were dynamic in flashes, but I wonder how much of that was against inferior teams. If they are great at putting up points against weaker opposition but become more of a defensive liability against the top teams/lines/checkers, then it's not a great thing...

2. The GF% of the Mojo-Backstrom-Williams line is solid, but what about something like (GF-GA)/60? It didn't seem like they scored that much... the point being that if for same TOI you have a line that scores 7 and lets in 3 (GF% = 70), or a line that scores 18 and lets in 12 (GF% = 60), you'd prefer the second one...

Edit: I looked at the stats for Mojo-Backstrom-Williams, their (GF-GA)/60 looks great, but they were only together for 153 (?) minutes over the last two seasons, if so -- pretty small sample.. Viewed separately, when Backstrom is with Mojo, Backstrom's GF% suffers ("Mojo brings Backstrom down to his level"); when Backstrom is with Williams, Backstrom's GF% stays about the same ("Backstrom brings Williams up to his level"). Although something is a bit fishy about TOIs on puckalytics site...

 

[artilector]

Anyway, my take on Ovi, Backstrom and Kuz is that fundamentally they each need TWO linemates with pretty high work-rate to make up for being a deficient-to-average in that department.

Ovi more so -- he puts a very heavy burden on his linemates to get the puck back, so he needs a real horse of a center that will cover a lot of ground for him. A guy like Backstrom or Kuz can be "wasted" on Ovi, because the increase in nice passes is balanced out by them having a hard time getting the puck back. So you may end up getting roughly same results as with a cheaper option (Zubrus back in the day).

Visually, part of the reason why Oshie has been a decent fit with Ovi is that he works hard to retrieve pucks and keep plays alive, giving the team more chances to put the puck on Ovi's stick. But one guy like that may not be enough to counterbalance Ovi's negative contribution.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Anyway, my take on Ovi, Backstrom and Kuz is that fundamentally they each need TWO linemates with pretty high work-rate to make up for being a deficient-to-average in that department.

Ovi more so -- he puts a very heavy burden on his linemates to get the puck back, so he needs a real horse of a center that will cover a lot of ground for him. A guy like Backstrom or Kuz can be "wasted" on Ovi, because the increase in nice passes is balanced out by them having a hard time getting the puck back. So may end up geting roughly same results as with a cheaper option (Zubrus back in the day).

Visually, part of the reason why Oshie has been a decent fit with Ovi is that he works hard to retrieve pucks and keep plays alive, giving the team more chances to put the puck on Ovi's stick. But one guy like that may not be enough to counterbalance Ovi's negative contribution.

How about he gets his legs going and start digging the damn puck with his line mates? He shouldn't have to be spoon fed scoring opportunities like that. The old Ovi used to be everywhere, he didn't need anyone to do all the dirty work for him.

 

[artilector]

How about he gets his legs going and start digging the damn puck with his line mates? He shouldn't have to be spoon fed scoring opportunities like that. The old Ovi used to be everywhere, he didn't need anyone to do all the dirty work for him.

I agree, but he always needed help to get the puck back. His legs only really moved faster in transition offense, IMO.