Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[IafrateOvie34]

On one hand, pretty bummed that he turned down a gig to play for the US national team (even if its the IIHF WC).

On the other hand, is there anything more MURICAN than turning it down to shoot turkeys?

I'm pretty sure he plans on eating the turkeys.

 

[Hivemind]

I'm pretty sure he plans on eating the turkeys.

Yes?

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Because the org likes him. He’s been around the block. Ovi, oshie, backstrom and Carlson all probably gone in next two seasons. The org likes him.

This. He took the contract to stay with the Caps and the reputation of the organization has grown mightily compared to 25 years ago. I don't believe they'll trade him after just resigning him. The offer would have to be too good to refuse. While I see a lot of HF hate for Wilson, I talk a lot with non Caps fans when I spot them. The majority mentioned how they love Wilson and wish he was on their team. I do agree he's a big trade chip should the Caps ever decide to make serious changes. I would be crushed though.

Yes?

You made it sound as if he's a hunter for the sake of killing animals.

 

[CapsSkins]

True. Two different types of players and I'll take Oshie player types over any Marner types every time.

The point here is that Oshie was a Marner-type before he came to Washington and became an "Oshie-type". If you look at what Blues fans were saying about him when he got moved, the anecdotes about his butting heads with the coaching staff, it's night and day from the player he matured into once he got to DC.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

The point here is that Oshie was a Marner-type before he came to Washington and became an "Oshie-type". If you look at what Blues fans were saying about him when he got moved, the anecdotes about his butting heads with the coaching staff, it's night and day from the player he matured into once he got to DC.

I know that part, but show me where the two players are comparable in style? I can count on prime Oshie to be a warrior. Marner hasn't shown me anything other than he's a finesse guy only. While I don't dislike Marner, I want to see more than just being a skilled guy. SC is the head coach, so there is the maybe he can transform Marner argument. Yes, I know the Caps are goal starved and Ovy's record is the organization's spill. For the record, I didn't mind Marner having a fit on the bench because he obviously wants to win and tired of his organization not addressing their serious needs which is goaltending and some grit. For me, I need to see why Marner is worth mortgaging good prospects and picks. One thing is obvious, Marner needs a change of scenery to some place.

 

[g00n]

Big fat no to another finesse guy who disappears in the playoffs, if that's the question.

 

[HeyMattyB]

The point here is that Oshie was a Marner-type before he came to Washington and became an "Oshie-type". If you look at what Blues fans were saying about him when he got moved, the anecdotes about his butting heads with the coaching staff, it's night and day from the player he matured into once he got to DC.

In that case, Troy Brouwer, Phoenix Copley and a third-round draft pick for Marner (50% retained)

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The point here is that Oshie was a Marner-type before he came to Washington and became an "Oshie-type". If you look at what Blues fans were saying about him when he got moved, the anecdotes about his butting heads with the coaching staff, it's night and day from the player he matured into once he got to DC.

It was dinosaur Ken Hitchcock….butting heads was his coaching style…..I don’t blame Oshie one bit. I don’t believe Oshie suddenly matured here, but he was moved to a better spot for him, and I don’t think Marner would be much different here honestly. I guess the pressure would be off him to some extent in the vein that it’s not Toronto pressure.

 

[um]

Big fat no to another finesse guy who disappears in the playoffs, if that's the question.

Our 1C was a finesse guy when we won the cup.

 

[g00n]

Our 1C was a finesse guy when we won the cup.

And every other year?

 

[Kalopsia]

It was dinosaur Ken Kitchcock….butting heads was his coaching style…..I don’t blame Oshie one bit. I don’t believe Oshie suddenly matured here, but he was moved to a better spot for him, and I don’t think Marner would be much different here honestly. I guess the pressure would be off him to some extent in the vein that it’s not Toronto pressure.

Yeah I was gonna say, butting heads with Ken Hitchcock was par for the course, everybody hated playing for that guy.

As for Oshie's playoff reputation, I may be misremembering, but my recollection is that he disappeared because he played so recklessly in the regular season and was so bad at protecting himself that he'd accumulate a bunch of nicks and scrapes. He'd try to play through them and then run out of steam by the postseason. It wasn't the stereotypical "finesse guy whose game doesn't translate to the playoffs" complaint like we used to have with guys like Tomas Fleischmann. I don't think he's a fair comp to Marner based on what I hear from Leafs fans.

 

[CapsSkins]

Nobody is going to accuse Mitch Marner of being a power forward but comparing him to Tomas Fleischmann is beyond disrespectful lol.

For a middle-6 guy, absolutely you want enough jam in their game. But this team needs speed and goal-scoring. With Wilson and Leonard on the way, I don't need Marner to be the next Oshie. We don't need to keep fighting yesterday's wars.

 

[895]

Guys we aren’t making the playoffs. Or if we are, we are crashing out first round. Marners disappearing act in the playoffs literally doesn’t matter.

He is an eliteplaymaker. He will help ovechkin hit 895.

If Toronto is stupid enough to trade him for Wilson, we would be just as stupid to turn it down.

 

[Kalopsia]

Nobody is going to accuse Mitch Marner of being a power forward but comparing him to Tomas Fleischmann is beyond disrespectful lol.

For a middle-6 guy, absolutely you want enough jam in their game. But this team needs speed and goal-scoring. With Wilson and Leonard on the way, I don't need Marner to be the next Oshie. We don't need to keep fighting yesterday's wars.

Obvious Flash was never close to the player Marner is, I was just trying to think of a Caps player who got a more similar type of complaint about their postseason play. It's still not a good comp because Flash really never showed up while Marner gets accused of not showing up at key moments, but I think it's closer to Marner's situation than Oshie's was.

 

[um]

And every other year?

I’ll take the one.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

No way I want Marner or Nylander on the Caps. Culture really matter and it's a hard no on both of these.

And giving up any of Leonard, Cristall, CMM, Protas, or Miroshnichenko at this point is inviting Forsberg deva vu and Karma.

McMichael had 18 goals in his first season with the Caps. Forsberg had 26 in his first year with Nashville - and 48 goals this year. I will repeat I am convinced CMM will have at least a few seasons with 35+ goals and has a 200 foot game and is cost controlled for whatever number of years they negotiate this summer. Do not give that up at this point.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

So what should we do for next year... 1/2

Caps may have a lot of immediate cap space this summer for next year. They could very well try and maximize letting the youth continue to rise and plug a wing hole or two with one year scoring...

We may be in a position to use extra, unexpected LTIR space to DRASTICALLY overpay an older scoring vet on a one year deal. Stamkos, Marchessault, or Taffoli MIGHT go for this if the money is enough.

I'd also be open to moving one of the goalies + Dowd + Jensen/TVR + next year's 1st + a next year 2nd (or any lessor combination of these that is sufficient) to bring in real D talant. Maybe Chechrun... or may someone who GMBM sees a someone who is about to blossom.

Improving the D (size, puck moving/offense) would take pressure off JC, and would help the young forwards, especially if teams have to be more wary of offense coming from the back.

 

[Hivemind]

And giving up any of Leonard, Cristall, CMM, Protas, or Miroshnichenko at this point is inviting Forsberg deva vu and Karma.

McMichael had 18 goals in his first season with the Caps. Forsberg had 26 in his first year with Nashville - and 48 goals this year. I will repeat I am convinced CMM will have at least a few seasons with 35+ goals and has a 200 foot game and is cost controlled for whatevernumber of years they negotiate this summer. Do not give that up at this point.

Filip Forsberg was 20 years old when he scored 26 goals and 63 points in his first real NHL season for Nashville.
CMM is 23 years old, scored 18 goals and 33 points this year, and played 68 games in 2021-22 (more than 80% of an NHL season).

I'm a big CMM believer and have supported him during basically all of his time in Lavi's doghouse, but he's not remotely comparable to Filip Forsberg's development curve. That age 20 season for Forsberg alone is 1 fewer goal and 12 more points than CMM has in his 155 game NHL career.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Filip Forsberg was 20 years old when he scored 26 goals and 63 points in his first real NHL season for Nashville.
CMM is 23 years old, scored 18 goals and 33 points, and played 68 games in 2021-22 (more than 80% of an NHL season).

I'm a big CMM believer and have supported him during basically all of his time in Lavi's doghouse, but he's not remotely comparable to Filip Forsberg's development curve. That age 20 season for Forsberg alone is 1 fewer goal and 12 more points than CMM has in his 155 game NHL career.

Not trying to say CMM will be as good as Forsberg - just that I am convinced he will have a similar path of improving year after year.

CMM had development hurdles that Forsberg didn't (COVID seasons, Lavi mismanagement) but he has shown a real lift this year (and during the Calder run).

I'm just trying to make the case to NOT move him for some famous name that will be looking at a $12M ask in a year to be followed by decline...

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Bertuzzi is another I would consider for a one year overpay deal... has Jam.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I'm still all in on #43. He has adapted his play over time so I see him doing his absolute best to find a way to contribute. Something was off for him this year but I expect he will be a much stronger contributor next year.

Hopefully Ovi will have a better summer. Last summer he was dealing with losing his Dad and I really think that impacted his season. Ovi has a long history of seeming to have his game fall away only to see brilliance once again. I do hope he can accept an evolved role where he can not feel so much of the "I must carry all of team on back". I also loved his net front presence in the second half...

 

[Lou Sassole]

I knew Lindgren would be one of my favorite Caps and he proved it.

I love this thread because it's fun to hear about Draisaitl and the Caps. Too bad it won't be reality .

Imagine what we would have to trade to get him. It would be crazy. I would love to trade for him if the Oilers shit the bed and decides to make changes, I just don't know what we would have to make that deal work. They would want Leonard, Lapierre, multiple picks and players.

Bertuzzi is another I would consider for a one year overpay deal... has Jam.

Same with Domi.

 

[Hivemind]

Not trying to say CMM will be as good as Forsberg - just that I am convinced he will have a similar path of improving year after year.

CMM had development hurdles that Forsberg didn't (COVID seasons, Lavi mismanagement) but he has shown a real lift this year (and during the Calder run).

I'm just trying to make the case to NOT move him for some famous name that will be looking at a $12M ask in a year to be followed by decline...

Peter Laviolette was Filip Forsberg's coach from the 2014-15 season thru 41 games into the 2019-20 season.

They simply aren't comparable when it comes to development curve. You can believe in CMM having another level he can get to, and that's a perfectly defensible position in itself. But citing Forsberg is not a valid rationale. It's comparing Apples to Orangutans. Forsberg was a top 5 talent in his draft that slid to 11th because of buffoonery, and more or less immediately excelled upon his arrival in North American hockey. He was able to immediately win over a coach with a notoriously rocky record with young players, where McMichael was not (despite him obviously earning more slack than Laviolette actually gave him).

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

2/2

So for 2025-2026 i wouldn'tbe surprised:

Miroshnichenko - Lapierre - Leonard
XXX - CMM - XXX
Ovi - Strome - Wilson
Suzy/XXX - Protas - Sutter/Milano

Where XXX could be any of Cristall/Funk/30 + goal UFAs or acquisitions who are a good fit for long term deal.

Wildcard would be real hockey trade for similar value/similar age (not young still developing talent for old/soon to decline).

Key is give this another year before making long term decisions. Will have a much clearer idea of player trajectories.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Peter Laviolette was Filip Forsberg's coach from the 2014-15 season thru 41 games into the 2019-20 season.

They simply aren't comparable when it comes to development curve. You can believe in CMM having another level he can get to, and that's a perfectly defensible position in itself. But citing Forsberg is not a valid rationale. It's comparing Apples to Orangutans. Forsberg was a top 5 talent in his draft that slid to 11th because of buffoonery, and more or less immediately excelled upon his arrival in North American hockey. He was able to immediately win over a coach with a notoriously rocky record with young players, where McMichael was not (despite him obviously earning more slack than Laviolette actually gave him).

All fair points. My main thesis is - don't make him comparable to Forsberg by trading him away, because I am convinced CMM has another level or two to grow.