Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2019-20 Season Pt. 6: 2020

[tenken00]

Playoff ticket money? All the games are going to be empty arena games. If they make any extra money it would be from the TV deals and advertising.

I'm assuming their thinking is that baseball playoffs will presumably be in the fall like always, and by that time hopefully we will have COVID-19 under control - or better control than now. And before a possible second wave of infections in the winter.

 

[tenken00]

There are very likely to be permanent changes that result from this that you are not going to like. I can see it now.

Like what? I'm curious.

I'm not really mad about it. I just stated an opinion that I think that it's not worth it, and I'm just defending that position. I haven't lashed out at anyone.. it's really not that big of a deal to me.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

So you think this Cup will be considered anywhere near as legitimate as all the other Cups by the majority of the public?

What’s with the need to “legitimize” with you?

The winner won’t be gifted anything, they'll run the gauntlet like any past playoff team. The gauntlet might be different but that doesn’t mean less. It’s what is put before them to overcome.

If a team knocks out every opponent thrown at them and the league recognizes them as champs, IMO that’s good enough.

 

[tenken00]

What’s with the need to “legitimize” with you?

The winner won’t be gifted anything, they'll run the gauntlet like any past playoff team. The gauntlet might be different but that doesn’t mean less. It’s what is put before them to overcome.

If a team knocks out every opponent thrown at them and the league recognizes them as champs, IMO that’s good enough.

Consider it like this:

If the 2018 Cup win never happened with the Caps, and Washington was still looking for its first ever championship, would this fully satisfy you?

A championship should be "legitimized" because it needs to be held to the highest and upmost standard and be comparable to all other Cups.

It's all relative.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Consider it like this:

If the 2018 Cup win never happened with the Caps, and Washington was still looking for its first ever championship, would this fully satisfy you?

A championship should be "legitimized" because it needs to be held to the highest and upmost standard and be comparable to all other Cups.

It's all relative.

Yes. Yes it would. It’s the winner of the NHL’s yearly “best team” tournament. Period end. So they would win a Stanley Cup.

you act like they are playing bingo for the first few rounds and the a best of the 3 for the Cup.

I think you are mistaken in your approach, but that’s ok.

why is anyone arguing about this? tenken is a long time respected poster. He considers this somehow less of a result than the normal year.

That’s fair to feel, even if it’s wrong

 

[tenken00]

That’s fair to feel, even if it’s wrong

I guess I have a higher standard in regards to championships than normal. Maybe even unreasonably high. After tasting two championships in the Caps and the Nats after decades of being losers, I want.. no, crave.. more of that.

Now let's go win us a fake one!

 

[Empty Goal Net]

If we end up with a 24-team end-of-regular season schedule, with teams playing a modified RS "warm-up" session prior to finalizing playoff seedings, and games played to date are locked in, some teams will have played a relatively tougher set of opponents, others a weaker set. Based on a quick look at cancelled games that won't be played, Caps will have missed 2x Detroit and 1x Ottawa (not necessarily gimmes, in fact trap game potentials), so from first glance it seems that the original schedule may have been a bit less troublesome for them than the games already in the books. Has anyone done an analysis of which teams' cancelled games would have been toughest/weakest? And if all teams' remaining games are all within their Divisions, who benefits? With the long layoff, you can't expect that prior experience this season will continue, but there will be inherent inequities in any start-up plan that attempts to patch together the remnants of the RS.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Consider it like this:

If the 2018 Cup win never happened with the Caps, and Washington was still looking for its first ever championship, would this fully satisfy you?

A championship should be "legitimized" because it needs to be held to the highest and upmost standard and be comparable to all other Cups.

It's all relative.

A win is a win. Would it be ideal, no, but still legit. All a championship team can do is win against who they’re tasked with.

 

[twabby]

The result would be legitimate even if it feels weird. Not being able to skate the Cup in front of a crowd (home or away) and not being able to have a parade certainly make it less exciting, but the accomplishment is still as valid IMO.

 

[Roshi]

*

We would feel a little weird about it, but happy. We would feel little awkward when bragging about it, but it would Still count in the bragg-bag. Pens fans would give us hell From bringing up 2 cups, and we would bring it up even more because of that.

15 years From now noone blinks when saying Caps has 2 cups. 25 years From now nobody remembers/cares that the second cup was in a "corona-year". It would only be a 'curious fact' From the second cup, and not an 'asterisk'.

The 'asterisk' or 'not-legimitate' stamp fades out with time. 48 game shortened lockout season was a bit different, but Still counted 100%. Playoffs format has been changed several times during the NHL. At the end of the line, in corona-year there was a legit 70+ game regular season, followed with a full scheduled playoffs equal to everyone. This is what our grandchildren will see from wikipedia.

So even if for us it sure would feel different to win this year than in a 'normal' year, we should Still try to celebrate and enjoy the hell out of it. Times and circumstances variate, history will remain.


* if the NHL would continue this season.

** looks like its getting very desperate with the border staying closed for another month.

 

[txpd]

*

We would feel a little weird about it, but happy. We would feel little awkward when bragging about it.

WTF is we? Winning any cup tournament plan they put forward may be the hardest cup ever to win.

 

[txpd]

Consider it like this:

If the 2018 Cup win never happened with the Caps, and Washington was still looking for its first ever championship, would this fully satisfy you?

A championship should be "legitimized" because it needs to be held to the highest and upmost standard and be comparable to all other Cups.

It's all relative.

Yes, it would satisfy me. Just as much as the 2018 cup would have satisfied me if the Penguins had lost before they got to the Capitals. You remember how some refused to accept any cup that didn't require beating Pittsburgh first?

I wouldn't say your standards are too high. I would describe them as both unreasonable and too traditionalist. But they are your's and they don't effect me. If you want to be unhappy, enjoy

 

[tenken00]

Yes, it would satisfy me. Just as much as the 2018 cup would have satisfied me if the Penguins had lost before they got to the Capitals. You remember how some refused to accept any cup that didn't require beating Pittsburgh first?

I wouldn't say your standards are too high. I would describe them as both unreasonable and too traditionalist. But they are your's and they don't effect me. If you want to be unhappy, enjoy

I never said I would be unhappy with it.

I only said that weighing a substandard Cup, which everyone agrees is more of an anomaly than a normal one, is not worth the risk of people getting sick. I'm not talking about the players getting sick, but the hundreds of everyday workers that you don't see that make games happen and lets them be shown on TV.

You are just cherry picking what I write and running away with it. Please don't. That's only one side of the equation.

Edit: I guess I need to clarify it better.

If this anomaly of a Cup was due to other reasons, and there was no further risk of people getting seriously sick - people who aren't millionaires like these players with access to the best medical services and treatments - then by all means, go all in.

 

[Langway]

It wouldn't be an anomaly, though. The timing makes it very unique but the challenge itself would be no less daunting (perhaps even greater than usual). Any Cup win in the coming months would be even more difficult given that Columbus, Carolina & Pittsburgh will be almost fully healthy. The likes of Seth Jones, Dougie Hamilton & Jake Guentzel being available makes it much closer to a true (and rested) best-on-best scenario. Circumstances could change and potentially wipe it all out again but they're going to try and, while maybe sloppy initially, I wouldn't tend to discount just how intense that battle will end up being.

 

[tenken00]

It wouldn't be an anomaly, though. The timing makes it very unique but the challenge itself would be no less daunting (perhaps even greater than usual). Any Cup win in the coming months would be even more difficult given that Columbus, Carolina & Pittsburgh will be almost fully healthy. The likes of Seth Jones, Dougie Hamilton & Jake Guentzel being available makes it much closer to a true (and rested) best-on-best scenario. Circumstances could change and potentially wipe it all out again but they're going to try and, while maybe sloppy initially, I wouldn't tend to discount just how intense that battle will end up being.

I agree with you and the others who say that it will still be a gauntlet. But anything can be a gauntlet. A 3v3 month long tournament can be the greatest challenge ever. It's still an anomaly.

Dare to say if the Penguins win it all (ewwwwww) and Crosby wins the Conn Smythe (double eewwwww), I'll never give them the total full credit of a normal Cup and Conn Smythe. And I don't expect that Penguins fans will either if the Caps do.

 

[Hivemind]

I am not sure that I get any of this. The NHL isn't going to force play regardless of how many players get sick. There isn't a chance that the NHLPA would allow that. Meanwhile a well run playoffs isn't anything close to a farce. Suggesting that it would be doesn't make sense. Could play be damaged by infections? Yes. Could enough damage ruin the play? Yes. Was Sundays NASCAR race at Darlington a farce? Hell no. Would trying to play an NHL playoffs be a gamble? Yes. Would it be a joke? Hell no

Taking a multi-month break in the middle of the season and then resuming is a farce.
Ignoring player and personnel safety to force a season restart is a farce.
Playing a tournament in a scenario where positive tests could drive either star players or large chunks of teams into mandatory quarantine/exclusion from the league mid-tournament is a farce.
Flying groups of individuals who cannot socially distance or self isolate across the country on a regular basis is a farce.
Forcing a bubble league concept where all teams play together at a single location is a farce. The players union, rightfully, would never agree to that.
I don't watch or care about NASCAR. But it's generally not a sport that involves physical contact between human beings, so it's an entirely different set of circumstances when considering COVID safety measures.

Any return to play is a farce, but the almighty dollar will force it.

 

[Roshi]

WTF is we?

Cant tell you that. This information is above your safety grade. Or i could tell you but then i would have to kill you.

 

[txpd]

I never said I would be unhappy with it.

I only said that weighing a substandard Cup, which everyone agrees is more of an anomaly than a normal one.

Substandard? That word is enough right there. Substandard means cheap. Second rate. A one off doesn't mean its cheap. An adjustment doesn't mean second rate.

 

[txpd]

Taking a multi-month break in the middle of the season and then resuming is a farce.
Ignoring player and personnel safety to force a season restart is a farce.

We can stop there. Moving on

 

[itsjustsurvival]

I think you guys exceeded the amount of times the word "farce" should appear on a single page.

 

[tenken00]

Substandard? That word is enough right there. Substandard means cheap. Second rate. A one off doesn't mean its cheap. An adjustment doesn't mean second rate.

Maybe not "cheap" but "cheaper"?

 

[txpd]

Maybe not "cheap" but "cheaper"?

Substandard is a loaded term that you don't attach to anything satisfactory. Thru the thread you have made it pretty clear that its unsatisfactory to you and so substandard is a fit. If someone does substandard work for me, I expect it to be redone properly and at no cost to me.

I will worry about this further if the league announces a return. For now? I think I understand your point of view

 

[tenken00]

Substandard is a loaded term that you don't attach to anything satisfactory. Thru the thread you have made it pretty clear that its unsatisfactory to you and so substandard is a fit. If someone does substandard work for me, I expect it to be redone properly and at no cost to me.

I will worry about this further if the league announces a return. For now? I think I understand your point of view

I also understand what you and the others are saying. Which is why I admitted that maybe I was being a little unreasonable. I still feel that this Cup wouldn't be as highly regarded as normal Cups so its not worth the risk. But if it happens, it happens, and it is still a Cup.

And we are just going in circles now, so until the season restart is actually given the official go, that's that.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Consider it like this:

If the 2018 Cup win never happened with the Caps, and Washington was still looking for its first ever championship, would this fully satisfy you?

A championship should be "legitimized" because it needs to be held to the highest and upmost standard and be comparable to all other Cups.

It's all relative.

I definitely get your point of view even if I don't agree with it but in fairness, I don't think I'll ever be as satisfied as I was in 2018. You always remember your first and the manner in which they won after so many years of inventing ways to lose made it a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was downtown with a wall of people as far as the eye could see watching them take it all in G5 and it would of course be a bummer not being able to share it with all of my Caps brethren in person like in 2018 but if they won this year, they wouldn't introduce Alex Ovechkin at his HoF induction as a 1.5-time Stanley Cup winner or a 1 real Cup and 1 fake Cup winnder... he'd be a 2x (and hopefully more) Cup-winning inductee.

I'm trying to look at this as making the best out of a shitty situation rather than finding reasons to tear it down. I certainly understand and appreciate wanting to keep winning the Cup a prestigious accomplishment and this will feel different if and when it's awarded but there's so much that sucks about this year I can't bring myself to be anything but excited about hockey coming back.

 

[tenken00]

I'm trying to look at this as making the best out of a shitty situation rather than finding reasons to tear it down.

I actually really appreciate this. Maybe I get too caught up with the negatives. Like if people do become sick and it all gets shut down. But yea, like I said if the restart happens - I do want the enjoyment of having hockey back and just hope for the best.