Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2019-20 Season Pt. 6: 2020

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Skrudland2Lomakin

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You are definitly trolling here. Point.
You just said that Sidney Crosby... a guy who has played 1C for 3 Stanley Cups, including two back-to-back, is not as good as Kuznetsov and "is only good against weak opponents and low lines". I have watched that man absolutely bitch slap this team for 15 years so I don't know what that says about us as an opponent.


But yeah, I'm trolling...

First ballot HoF player. Probably top 10 all time... and then Kuznetsov who has never been voted into an ASG, sniffed an award, or led the league in anything.
 
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Skrudland2Lomakin

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Schenn had a good year, but he isn’t kuzy. Have to disagree with you on that one.
On potential I agree that Kuz is better, but that's the issue, it's always a mixed bag with Kuz. Schenn, while having a lower ceiling, had a better regular season and was basically the same impact as Kuz in the playoffs. So in the vacuum of 2020, it's a coin flip as to who is that 2C
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

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Jan 1, 2011
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Ignore him. He is a troll.
Explain to me using statistics and facts. How Evgeny Kuznetsov is a better player than Sidney Crosby.


Please, indulge my "trolling".


Also, just so we're keeping track of claims.

In the last week you've said

  • Travis Boyd is a better C than Backstrom, and actually one of the best C's in the league
  • Kuznetsov is better than Crosby
  • GMBM isn't that good of a GM
  • Lars Eller is one of the worst players on the team
  • Holtby is a terrible goalie
  • Brayden Schenn, who had 58 points this year, and over 50 points every season for the last 5 years, is a nobody
 
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francaisvolantsparis

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Malkin and Crosby, what an ordinary pair of center forwards on an NHL team. Seriously, today I take Kuznetsov over Crysby any day. 87 is only good against week opponents and low lines. He is not even close to a big game Ovi or Kuzy. They destroy best players in the World in important games consistently.

Explain to me using statistics and facts. How Evgeny Kuznetsov is a better player than Sidney Crosby.


Please, indulge my "trolling".

'Today' is all that I need to say. Like Holtby. Today he is a bad goalie.
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

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'Today' is all that I need to say. Like Holtby. Today he is a bad goalie.
Well conceivably "today" they both aren't very good, what with the not playing of the hockey because they're eliminated.

However in 2019-20 Sidney Crosby still managed to finish only 5 points under Kuznetsov despite playing in 22 less games. So if you could maybe use those statistics and facts like I asked, that'd be swell.
 

francaisvolantsparis

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You could poll every single player in the league and I don’t think you’d get a single player to say Kuznetsov is better than Crosby. That might be one of the worst takes you’ve had @francaisvolantsparis and that’s hard to do
Crosby is a 2.36 point/60 on 5v5, Kuznetsov is 2.40. In last three regular seasons combined. Kuznetsov was better player the last three seasons. Taking Kuzy over Crosby TODAY is an option. Denaying it is irrelevant.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Noted playoff success stories, the 2019 and 2020 playoffs...


He played first line center minutes, it would be a joke if he wasn't 2nd in points. That doesn't make it good.


Also he would not get "10.0M easy", that would make him tied for the 8th highest paid player in the league. He has made the ASG once as a replacement player, he has never finished top 10 in any award voting, he has never lead the league in any statistical category, and he's 28 now. If he's a UFA right now he probably gets whatever the interest rate on his current deal is.

that made me LOL.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
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And he’s one of the few players in the league with that upside

He had it ONCE....each season that goes by, that seems like a fleeting height never to be gained again.

It’s not like we can point to an apparent or obvious rededication to his game, his work ethic or his fitness for some indication that he’s about to peak again.

there are plenty of players who could score 30+ on a Cup winning run in the NHL.
 

francaisvolantsparis

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relax Francis.....you say some off the wall stuff and you say it with conviction. You should be used to the (mostly) good natured ribbing by now. You get it pretty much every day from a lot of people! ;)
I have no problem with you. You are a nice guy. I have my opinions, you have yours. It is great like that. We need many different points of view in general. I just point out at some level of common respect, we better have one to each other, so this conversation is enjoyable for us and other readers. I hope there is no moderator here who brought likes to some toxic-so posts. I really hope so..
 
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Skrudland2Lomakin

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Crosby is a 2.36 point/60 on 5v5, Kuznetsov is 2.40. In last three regular seasons combined. Kuznetsov was better player the last three seasons. Taking Kuzy over Crosby TODAY is an option. Denaying it is irrelevant.
It's almost like this 5v5 stat you like to use to argue that guys like Boyd are elite is somewhat contingent on what lines are being used against the players, the context of how they're being used in games, what a full 200 foot game looks like, and what that dispersal of 60 minutes looks like.

Kuz averages almost 3 minutes less a game over the last three years vs. Crosby. That means his opportunities to increase his point share in regards to that stat are often platooned over more games, and thusly more energy. Kuzy is rarely, if ever dispersed to eat minutes with a lead late in a game, Crosby on the other hand almost is a guarantee to do that. Kuzy plays mostly second line, he's at best the second player the opposition gamelans against when they plan for the Capitals. Crosby is 1C and public enemy number one in every city he plays.


The stat, like plus/minus, is broken because it takes 60 minutes of 5v5 as being equal at face value, but it's not. The scoring opportunities of someone being used over 60 in only offensive minded situations isn't comparable to someone who is defensively sound enough to be on the ice late in a close win.

Essentially, it's not fair to compare 60 minutes of the NHL that Travis Boyd sees to 60 minus of the NHL that Ovechkin sees. This stat will always benefit guys who don't see a ton of time in high risk situations. It makes sense that the Travis Boyd's of the world probably knock this out of the park because he takes a month to fulfill the requirement and he's never near the ice when the other teams best lines are on it.
 
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