GDT: Caps @ Ducks, 10 pm

[jsykes]

I think the best thing with Halak these days is that he is not out of position as much as Holtby is. He plays a much better positional game and as was said, he seems more solid and less fragile.

 

[Langway]

What part of that couldn't be said for Marcus Kruger, the Hawks 4C when they won the cup last year? Not that I'm saying Wellman is as good as Kruger, but limiting yourself to conventional hockey lines is an outdating way of thinking.

Kruger kills penalties so he did fill something of a traditional bottom six function all-around, albeit with further upside. Wellman is what he is...more or less an Aucoin type tweener. I don't mind untraditional lines but I don't think he's their best option. Even if they don't want someone to take on some SHTOI with Laich out, Latta or Brown provide more of the sort of size/strength you'd expect to fare better against their upcoming opponents.

At least they made the move to get Wey in the lineup over Carrick. They should stick with that.

 

[BobRouse]

Kruger kills penalties so he did fill something of a traditional bottom six function all-around, albeit with further upside. Wellman is what he is...more or less an Aucoin type tweener. I don't mind untraditional lines but I don't think he's their best option. Even if they don't want someone to take on some SHTOI with Laich out, Latta or Brown provide more of the sort of size/strength you'd expect to fare better against their upcoming opponents.

At least they made the move to get Wey in the lineup over Carrick. They should stick with that.

I'm with you. I think Latta should be here over Wellman. I am sure there are reasons Latta isn't with the team right now but his play on the ice that we saw isn't one of them. He was very good.

Good on the draw. Tough. Hits. Aggitates. Isn't bereft of skill. He could help us a ton right now.

 

[Calicaps]

I agree. Holtby is the future goaltender of the Caps. I truly believe he'll find his way back to the brilliant goaltender he was in the playoffs when the Caps beat the Bruins. This season was his sophomore slump--a slump that was aided by Oates's strange goalie rotation and goalie coaching that doesn't mesh with the Holtby's style of play. It was a matter of "fixing" what wasn't broken.

This. Oates and his crew seem to be slaves to solutions in search of problems.

 

[BobRouse]

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

Grubauer isn't ready for the NHL. Why rush another young goalie that had success in a small sample size of game? Gru played his best this season during that small amount of games and hasn't set the world on fire since being demoted. I thought after his demotion he would clearly be the #1 guy over Leggio but that isn't the case.

 

[thelebaron]

sounds like chicken little with all that talk of holts being gone. gmgm is backed into a corner, i would only really worry about holtbys future with the caps if gmgm gets a longterm extension.

 

[Calicaps]

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

I sure hope you are wrong.

Frankly, if GMGM sours the relationship with yet another talented young tender, that should be another nail in his coffin. At some point, this stops being coincidence and becomes a pattern of mismanagement. I obviously believe we passed that point a long time ago, but regardless, we had a stable of great young goalies and now... Two of three are not just gone, but left on bad terms.

It's abysmal asset management, and I surely hope someone in the ownership group is paying attention.

 

[BobRouse]

I sure hope you are wrong.

Frankly, if GMGM sours the relationship with yet another talented young tender, that should be another nail in his coffin. At some point, this stops being coincidence and becomes a pattern of mismanagement. I obviously believe we passed that point a long time ago, but regardless, we had a stable of great young goalies and now... Two of three are not just gone, but left on bad terms.

It's abysmal asset management, and I surely hope someone in the ownership group is paying attention.

Well...seems to me that GMGM and Holtby's relationship has already soured based on uncharacteristic public comments earlier this year and how he has been essentially demoted and blamed for much of the teams woes (unjustly).

Will Holtby, being the competitior he is, be content being a backup next year? Will we platoon 2 young goalies yet again (as if that formula has worked well)?

Will Holtby be trusted with the #1 goaltending position next year based on the events that occured up to now this year especially seeing as how Halak is now seemingly the undisputed #1?

Its certainly a messy situation and really it all occurred when GMGM failed to get the right goalies in here (Theodore and Vokoun) and we had to throw in the young guys to save our seasons.

Tell me I'm wrong about how I see things now....I think its going to be tough for GMGM and Holtby to make things right.

Personally I'd like to see a change in management and coaching. But I am sure thats not going to happen.

 

[Calicaps]

Well...seems to me that GMGM and Holtby's relationship has already soured based on uncharacteristic public comments earlier this year and how he has been essentially demoted and blamed for much of the teams woes (unjustly).

Will Holtby, being the competitior he is, be content being a backup next year? Will we platoon 2 young goalies yet again (as if that formula has worked well)?

Will Holtby be trusted with the #1 goaltending position next year based on the events that occured up to now this year especially seeing as how Halak is now seemingly the undisputed #1?

Its certainly a messy situation and really it all occurred when GMGM failed to get the right goalies in here (Theodore and Vokoun) and we had to throw in the young guys to save our seasons.

Tell me I'm wrong about how I see things now....I think its going to be tough for GMGM and Holtby to make things right.

Personally I'd like to see a change in management and coaching. But I am sure thats not going to happen.

I wouldn't want Holtby to be content as a backup. I'd want him to fight to earn his job back. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Toffu]

Holtby can't do anything in this situation. Just trade him.

 

[Hivemind]

Holtby can't do anything in this situation. Just trade him.

You realize Halak is a UFA after this season right?

 

[ryan519*]

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

Exactly what I was thinking. But when? over the summer?

 

[hb12xchamps]

Yeah lets trade Holtby because Halak had a few good games great idea! Grubauer did well in the 10 NHL games he has played, therefore he's NHL ready! Come on. Why not just take a goaltender in every single draft, develop them, then ship them off to other teams where they actually mature.

 

[Hivemind]

Yeah lets trade Holtby because Halak had a few good games great idea! Grubauer did well in the 10 NHL games he has played, therefore he's NHL ready! Come on. Why not just take a goaltender in every single draft, develop them, then ship them off to other teams where they actually mature.

No, they only do that with goaltenders from the 2006 draft.

 

[FloridaCap]

No. I'm not really a big fan of him either. IMO, he isn't much better than Holtby. Holtby has been getting ragged on way too much this season. Yes, he lets in the occasional softy, but so does every goalie. Halak has let in some softies since joining the caps as well.

Most of the goals against Holtby this year has been because of the lack of defensive depth on this team and the abysmal play in the defensive zone.

Is the defense suddenly better when Grubauer or Halak plays?

Yeah, the defense sucks, but Holtby has far and away the worst stats of our goalies this year.

 

[RandyHolt]

BobRouse you know that Kolzig and Oates had Holtby change the way he tends, right?

You may have actually missed something on your hiatus.

They had Kolzig over playing passes, and the goals just poured in. Just before the Sochi break, he was allowed to be a normal goaltender, and I think we went on a nice little streak.

 

[JenniferH]

BobRouse you know that Kolzig and Oates had Holtby change the way he tends, right?

You may have actually missed something on your hiatus.

They had Kolzig over playing passes, and the goals just poured in. Just before the Sochi break, he was allowed to be a normal goaltender, and I think we went on a nice little streak.

BobRouse, you also have the timeline wrong as mentioned above:

His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

He was pulled in a game in early December because of a momentum shift because Green accumulated about 16 minutes worth of penalties in a very short period of time (it was crazy). And everyone knew that Holtby being pulled was for momentum reasons, none of the goals let in were on him. Then he did admittedly have a bad game and was pulled. Then Grubi went on his hot streak and Oates inexplicably barely played Holts at all and when he did play, he was trying to play Kolzig's new style of play which didn't mesh with how he had been goaltending his whole career.

It was AFTER this that GMGM's quote came out, which Holtby responded to, and even then, while clearly not happy about the comment, Holt's quote wasn't actually that bitter when not taken out of context. And it certainly wasn't a "lashing out." Finally as RandyHolt said, he played games in January and his first few coming back from the Olympic break where he did pretty dang good, won a few and the losses (like any under Halak's tending) were solely down to the crappy blue line and lack of scoring on the offensive line, not bad goaltending.

Oates is just doing what he does, riding one goaltender and ignoring the other. It's his thing. One of many oh so awesome Oates' things.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

Lots of jumping to conclusions in this thread. Holtby has been a good goalie during his time in the NHL, and one down season behind a horrid defense and with an allegedly inept coach doesn't convince me he can't be good again.

As for getting called out by GMGM, I'm hopeful Holtby's tenure with the Caps will outlast GMGM's by a wide margin.

 

[BobRouse]

BobRouse, you also have the timeline wrong as mentioned above:

.

Meh..the point still stands that Holtby has not played that great nor been treated well. Perhaps it started when no one jumped in during the Emery situation. But losing his job in this fashion after being called out by your GM earlier this season does not bode well.

I wouldn't want Holtby to be content as a backup. I'd want him to fight to earn his job back. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't disagree with that. But Varlamov and Neuvirth weren't content when they got usurped via GMGM wackiness.

BobRouse you know that Kolzig and Oates had Holtby change the way he tends, right?

You may have actually missed something on your hiatus.

They had Kolzig over playing passes, and the goals just poured in. Just before the Sochi break, he was allowed to be a normal goaltender, and I think we went on a nice little streak.

Well if he was playing so good why did the GM, who called him out earlier in the season, trade for a vet goalie?

I agree the Kolzig probably helped mess with his head. I think the Emery situation didn't help. I think the GMGM comments got to him too. And now losing his job like this. I don't like it.

I like his fire. I think there is something amiss...I didn't like some of his comments during the playoffs last year or the one before where he said the team was too loose after a certain game. I bet that rubbed some guys the wrong way..which led to the Emery situation..etc

Thats some Scooby Doo crime solving!

 

[ryan519*]

Why did we just sign a free agent goaltender..?

 

[Hivemind]

Why did we just sign a free agent goaltender..?

NCAA free agent. He's a prospect, which we have exactly none of value of behind Grubauer. Need to keep the pantry stocked.

 

[Fallschirmyager]

Halak made some nice saves, to be sure, but I wasn't getting he had to stand on his head. The team overall was more crisp and confident in their play. Still flaws, but better.

Sorry guys..I have a feeling Holtby is as good as gone. Their is no fixing this IMO

First off he hasn't been very consistent this year. His play has gone in the tank as of December.

GMGM comes out with the "we would have 10 more points if we had better goaltending" essentially calling out Holtby. Then Holtby lashes back at the statement by saying "that kinda thing can tear apart a team"

Then Holtby briefly loses his job to Grubauer.

Then we bring in Halak and despite losing vs Pitt on the 1st of a back to back (in which Halak didn't stand on his head) Holtby's promised start was yanked.

Here's the deal...

Enough is enough. We can't go into another season relying on a tandem of young goalies.

Grubauer is ready for the NHL at least in a platooning capacity. The goalie market has some decent vets like Halak who have more experience.

My instincts say that Holtby will be traded. He definitely has some value due to what he has shown, his age and his contract. Teams like Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary would immediately pick up the phone.

I'm thinking we resign Halak. Grubauer will be his back up.

Holtby and Management/coaching staff have come to an irrepairable crossroads.

This is another reason that it's time for a new GM. This one called out the goal tending but failed to take responsibility for the frankly bad defensive core HE built. This isn't injuries. This is just a bad core and the coach he chose is so stuck on his way that no matter how bad the results, he still forces players to play out of their normal positions.

I can't bring myself to hope for losses but at the same time, I think the only way to get a new front office is to miss the playoffs.

 

[BobRouse]

This is another reason that it's time for a new GM. This one called out the goal tending but failed to take responsibility for the frankly bad defensive core HE built. This isn't injuries. This is just a bad core and the coach he chose is so stuck on his way that no matter how bad the results, he still forces players to play out of their normal positions.

I can't bring myself to hope for losses but at the same time, I think the only way to get a new front office is to miss the playoffs.

I don't disagree with you except for one thing...the losses. GMGM is going to be back regardless for the previous reasons I have given.

I can frustrate you to no end but the fact is that owners and management don't always do what the fans want them to.

He should have been gone over a decade ago but it didn't happen then and I strongly sense it won't now. He will be given another offseason to make a final push while the window with Ovechkin is still open. For better or worse Ted is a loyal guy. On some level I admire him for that deep down inside.

 

[RandyHolt]

Well if he was playing so good why did the GM, who called him out earlier in the season, trade for a vet goalie?

Thats some Scooby Doo crime solving!

I think getting Halak was mostly about getting rid our highest paid but worst goalie, Neuvirth. And taking a stab at getting a backup G that can win a playoff series, or, Huet'us into the playoffs.

The framework for that deal may have been in place for months long before Holtby was forced to change his game WRT Oates deliberate high shots allowed system, and vision of a horizontal passing wave taking over the leagues grinders. Yeah I know, it makes no sense.

There was a nice article on Holtby being forced to start playing the pass. This is no speculation. You could literally see goals pour in on otherwise routine plays. And you could see him get better after they let him tend naturally.

You can have Scoopy, I am chilling with Daphne.