Post-Game Talk: Caps 5, Pens 2 - At Least No Ovechkin HT

[PensandCaps]

yah, schultz was bad.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How can anyone harp on Maatta? Dude was a pylon. He got walked multiple times and was just generally meh. I didn't really notice Schultz' turnovers but I'll have to take your word for it.

Yeah, Maatta was particularly brutal yesterday.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm getting a bit worried, I want to see us actually beating an inform cup contender instead of getting outclassed all the time.

Well, they've beaten Montreal, San Jose, Washington, the Rangers, and Boston this season. Who do you view as cup contender?

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Hate to break it to some of you, but I doubt Kunitz gets moved at all. At this point I expect the team to try and resign him.

I understand the theory that JR sees through Kunitz's facade and will take Sully's toy away from him but...

Kunitz has been terrible for the entirety of JR's tenure. If he saw Kunitz for what he is, he would have traded him during the offseason when he still had a year left on his contract.

 

[Corvidae]

Some absolutely colossal overreactions going on in here.

 

[Doogle]

Fleury was actually one of our better players last night. That first goal was all on Daley. He caused the turnover, and then instead of backchecking Ovechkin, he tried to switch sides with Letang and race back to cover the other guy at the same time, and was late to the play because of the bad line. Not only that, but his dumb decision making forced Letang to the other side to try and make a play on Ovechkin, leaving them both out of position. It was ugly. That pairing looked really bad last night, and I don't think I would try it again.

It's clear we need help on D. It's also clear that our top nine has no cohesion. Kunitz needs to be sent away, Guentzel needs to replace him. Fehr needs to be traded or in the press box, and Kuhnackl should be playing in his place. While yes, I did defend Flower, I really hope we move to Murray full time now that he's healthy. Olesky needs to be in the AHL; Ruhwedel looked very solid, I don't know why we gave up on him so fast. At least try Warsofsky instead.

It's also becoming apparent that none of Kunitz (duh), Daley, or Bonino should be resigned, but if anything, we might be able to even resign Cullen to another one year extension. I wouldn't rule it out, he still has far more energy, passion, and skill than Kunitz does. Daley looks lost, and Bonino is ineffective.

 

[SEALBound]

There honestly was not much to like about the game. Fact is, Washington came to play, we didn't. Washington had the fire from the get go, we didn't. Doesn't help when Ovechkin ruins MAF for a goal 35 seconds in for his 1000th point.

The lines are a mess. My initial worry from the off season was them not making moves and things getting stale. I think that is what we are seeing. Much like during the Shero/Bylsma era, winning is masking issues. We have issues.

Sid needs a RW...however we are deep on RW with Rust, Horny, and Kessel. Hags and Horny are great players however they do not compliment each other all that well, especially with Malkin. Bonino isn't having a great season to begin with but having to tote Kunitz along doesn't help. 4th line is 4th line and if there was one bright spot, it's that our 4th line > their 4th line as Cullen, Wilson, and Fehr had some really good shifts IMHO.

Biggest single issue right IMHO, and I hate to harp on it, is Kunitz. It's getting harder and harder to hide him and build 3 scoring lines.

Sheary-Sid-Rust/Horny
Guentzel-Malkin-Horny/Rust
HBK

That top 9, you can work with and mix and match much more effectively than figuring out where Kunitz hurts you the least.

Defense is starting to get suspect, truth be told. I 100% would not have iced Oleksey last night. We needed quick transition and speed and I would have much rather have seen Ruh or Warso in there. I know why they put him in though. Problem is, who goes? And for what return?

Dumo-Letang should stay a thing. Cole-Schultz should stay a thing because I think we are getting quality play from both at a good price.

So that narrows it down to Maatta and Daley. Both of who have been bad at worse and really good at best. Daley is a UFA, Maatta is a recently signed young top 4 dman. Who goes with who coming back? Maatta's skating is becoming more and more worrisome to me. He got walked several times last night and with the trend of speed in the league, it may become a glaring issue sooner than later. Daley is inconsistent at best and I'm having trouble nailing down his role here to be honest.

I believe we do need a tweak or two before the playoffs. I'd recommend one wing and one dman with the hopes of just doing swaps with other teams. I don't see us selling too much which means we need to pick the weakest links and try to trade them out.

Still like the idea of Maatta for Landy, Kunitz+Pouliot for Stone with intentions of keeping stone post exp draft.

ETA: Our PK needs some serious, serious work. Outside of ALWAYS leaving Ovechkin wide ****ing open, our clears are horrific, our movement is weak, we rarely block passing lanes, and we are slow to board battles. They make it very easy on the other teams PPs.

 

[Shady Machine]

I actually thought besides the 1st goal that the Pens outplayed Washington in the 1st. After that though, the Caps tilted the game.
One thing I noticed: Pens had a D caught on a pinch with little support more times than I can count. It looked like they were chasing to prevent odd man rushes. Meanwhile, the Caps always had numbers back on turnovers and rarely left their D outnumbered on rushes against.

 

[SEALBound]

I actually thought besides the 1st goal that the Pens outplayed Washington in the 1st. After that though, the Caps tilted the game.
One thing I noticed: Pens had a D caught on a pinch with little support more times than I can count. It looked like they were chasing to prevent odd man rushes. Meanwhile, the Caps always had numbers back on turnovers and rarely left their D outnumbered on rushes against.

They played a much tighter game. The shots we got on Holtby too were high danagerous shots either and at the same time, we didn't capitalize on chances we could have - Cullen's post, Malkin's bouncing puck, Kessel's bouncing puck. Bounces go each and every way and they come and they go. That game, we didn't get many.

As I said in the pre-game, it was Pens offense vs MAF's GAA. If they could out pace MAF, they will win. The offense just wasn't there. We also have a lot of passengers currently that are not making impacts. Bonino, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Kunitz...these are 4 of the top 9 guys and we aren't seeing numbers out of them. Rust is about to be on that list too. It can't be all up to Sid-Geno-Kessel-Sheary. Don't know if that means bringing in another player or switching lines up or...what...

 

[Shady Machine]

They played a much tighter game. The shots we got on Holtby too were high danagerous shots either and at the same time, we didn't capitalize on chances we could have - Cullen's post, Malkin's bouncing puck, Kessel's bouncing puck. Bounces go each and every way and they come and they go. That game, we didn't get many.

As I said in the pre-game, it was Pens offense vs MAF's GAA. If they could out pace MAF, they will win. The offense just wasn't there. We also have a lot of passengers currently that are not making impacts. Bonino, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Kunitz...these are 4 of the top 9 guys and we aren't seeing numbers out of them. Rust is about to be on that list too. It can't be all up to Sid-Geno-Kessel-Sheary. Don't know if that means bringing in another player or switching lines up or...what...

I agree for sure, although only 1 goal could really be argued to be on MAF (squeeker through his five hole at goal mouth). Pens just gave the Caps too many high quality chances and they buried nearly every one of them.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No save is worth more than another. If 1 isn't made it still results in a goal. They are all equal. When do we expect MAF to come up with a save then (age old argument it seems)? OV isn't automatic from those areas. We should still expect our goalie to make a save there more often than not. When we consistently don't get them, we blame the D even though any NHL goalie makes those saves 80% of the time. They weren't all empty net, tap ins. Holtby certainly made tough saves against the Pens.

MAF allows 1 out of every 5 breakdowns (HDSC) to result in a goal
MM allows 3 out of every 20 breakdowns (HDSC) to result in a goal

PIT allows between 8-9 HDSCA per game. You can start to see how MM gives you "free goal differential" over MAF each game. I'm not saying the D is faultless, but it's much harder to fix the "D" that consists of 18 skaters vs "the goalie" which is 1. I also don't know how many SCA come from our goalie (and his poor rebound control) either. This game become out of touch for the Pens before they even got their first goal.

Murray is better than Fleury. For sure. I'm in no way disputing that. I want Fleury gone 6 months ago. High Danger Scoring Chances still aren't all equal. If Ovi gets those two chances (his two goals), he's going to come away with 1 goal more often than not. And he's probably going to come away with 2 goals more often than no goals. So Fleury was on the bad side of that, but I don't think any goalie is going to save either of those chances 80% of the time.

I agree that Fleury is giving up more goals than he should. A few games this year I've come away thinking "man Fleury didn't let in any bad goals, but I think every good chance went in." And that's a problem. I just think those first two are really tough examples. The first, for example, would have been considered a HDSC even if Letang played the 2v1 well. Instead, Letang gave Ovi too much space and allowed him to change the angle and shoot however he wanted. There's nothing there to distinguish between the two and classify this one as an Even Higher Danger Scoring Chance, but that's what it was.

I would call last night a decent game bordering on the bad side for a goalie. If Fleury had shut the door after their 3rd goal, I'd have called it a good game. Still not great, but good. But my main point is that if the team looks at that first scoring chance and gets deflated because Fleury let it in, that's on them. They were more at fault than he was.

I agree for sure, although only 1 goal could really be argued to be on MAF (squeeker through his five hole at goal mouth). Pens just gave the Caps too many high quality chances and they buried nearly every one of them.

Indeed. It was a team effort. Fleury included. Too many chances, and too many of them went in. Fleury has always given up a lot of dumb stuff, but I feel like he is making less of the big saves this year than he typically has to make up for it. Certainly not as many as Murray.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

Turned the game off halfway through the second. Knew the outcome and had better things to do than get frustrated by the **** show..

Who scored for us? Sid get any points?

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Turned the game off halfway through the second. Knew the outcome and had better things to do than get frustrated by the **** show..

Who scored for us? Sid get any points?

Both goals on the PP. Kessel 2A, Malkin 1G, Sid 1A, Hornqvist 1G, Schultz 1A.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Washington wins Regular Season Games, don't worry folks!!!!!!!

 

[SEALBound]

I agree for sure, although only 1 goal could really be argued to be on MAF (squeeker through his five hole at goal mouth). Pens just gave the Caps too many high quality chances and they buried nearly every one of them.

Yup. And it happens. Hell, there have been games where it seems like every shot we take goes in. Remember that Rangers game awhile back? Or remember the thumping the jackets gave us? Sometimes those games happen.

Our risilliency this year has been great. I wish we could have seen more of it last night. In the 3rd, I felt like it was a very much a winable game. After going down 3-0, they responded with a goal. At 3-1, I felt that if they notched another it would be a new game. That's when Cullen hit the post. Had he made that, it would have been a different game. But again, sometimes the bounces go your way, sometimes they don't. It's entirely possible we used all our bounces in the playoff series last year against them!

Washington wins Regular Season Games, don't worry folks!!!!!!!

We are making the playoffs. With these games, I'm more worried about how we match up more so than if we win per say. If it's a hard fought game back and forth and we don't win, it happens. If we have glaring weaknesses that are exploited whether we win or lose, that's concerning.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

Both goals on the PP. Kessel 2A, Malkin 1G, Sid 1A, Hornqvist 1G, Schultz 1A.

Thanks.. Sid needs to start scoring again or OV is going to catch him.

 

[billybudd]

Giving up a goal on the first shift was a team problem, not just on Fleury. He was less responsible for that goal than both D-men and whoever should have been covering for Daley back. Sid saying that isn't blaming Fleury, he's blaming everyone on the ice. Himself included.

Letang didn't really do anything wrong there. If there's a secondary responsibility on that goal (and I'd put it solely on Daley), it's Fleury, in that he was cheating stick side despite OV's body position making it impossible to shoot it anywhere but glove side or five hole. You can see this pretty clearly from the ice level reverse angle. He leaves the post to drift stickside, which OV has no shooting angle at.

Still, shooter that deadly with that much time taking a shot from that location, you really can't expect a goaltender to make the save. That goal's all Daley, to me.

Second OV goal was just a shooting gallery, though. IDK who was killing that penalty, but they weren't doing their jobs at all.

 

[BmxHockey]

Besides all the obvious negativity, not getting that first goal set the pens in a panic to only run into another Vezina performance by Holtby.

Got to give Holtby his props. He gives up two goals in that 10 minutes of first period chances and potentially, just potentially this is a differently played game by the Pens.

I get it, the Pens are good from behind, but not against a regular season hero team with a chip on it's shoulder especially vs the S.C.C. Penguins.

 

[zero8771]

Pens are in LA Kings mode. Call me in march.

I hope some of you overreacting aren't carrying this misery with you in real life

 

[Jaded-Fan]

...
We are making the playoffs. With these games, I'm more worried about how we match up more so than if we win per say. If it's a hard fought game back and forth and we don't win, it happens. If we have glaring weaknesses that are exploited whether we win or lose, that's concerning.

Simple question.

Do you believe that the issues we are seeing are systemic or are more the fact that, as you say, we are making the playoffs?

What I mean is that I see things, like the Pens not going down and blocking shots like they did in the playoffs, even dogging it some (not Crosby of course, but still).

Do you believe that Sully will have the Pens prepared for the playoffs and that the Pens will go to another level a few weeks before the playoffs start, or that there are real fundamental problems with this team and some of the players who are a level below where they were the second half of last year?

Example of the above, Bonino was considered to be a bit of a mess for a while last year, but then turned it on in the latter half of the year.

I have been stewing on this question for a while now.

 

[BHD]

We are making the playoffs. With these games, I'm more worried about how we match up more so than if we win per say. If it's a hard fought game back and forth and we don't win, it happens. If we have glaring weaknesses that are exploited whether we win or lose, that's concerning.

Rival teams have had an offseason to prepare for the Pens' attack. Now is when we see if Sullivan can adjust.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

One more thought, I am convinced that the team does not trust Fleury as much as Murray and they play differently in front of both. Or maybe the goalies style of play lends itself to a difference in play, but there is a difference.

With Fleury it is always a chinese fire drill with numerous odd man rushes and mistakes. I just do not see as many when they play in front of Murray. The whole game is much calmer it seems.

Or maybe that is my biases showing and I am imagining it. But those have been my impressions.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Rival teams have had an offseason to prepare for the Pens' attack. Now is when we see if Sullivan can adjust.

I am not sure that what the Pens were doing you can 'prepare' for. The Pens strength was speed and depth. Basically exploiting the fact that in a cap world it is very difficult to have speed and scoring up and down your roster. We said our bottom six can beat your bottom six in a playoff series.

We got lucky on the cheap in being able to do that. If it is clicking you simply can not 'prepare' for that if you flat out do not have the bottom six horses and second and third pairing defensemen to keep up. Eventually you break.

We saw that with the Caps' series in fact. They had to resort to overplaying their top two lines and top two pairing defensemen and eventually they wore them out. We saw that in a number of series. The only way to prepare for that is to match it if you can.

 

[Gurglesons]

how can anyone harp on maatta? Dude was a pylon. He got walked multiple times and was just generally meh. I didn't really notice schultz' turnovers but i'll have to take your word for it.

Literally makes no sense how he is following the play. Also, for Maatta getting "walked" multiple times, he was only scored on once which was Olesky's fault and I don't understand where he's supposed to fit in the line-up?

Daley's a complete mess, Schultz is playing primarily with Cole. It's like the people saying we had "defensive" depth because we signed Percy and Olesky and a bunch of other older AHLers. This is exactly what happens when you aren't willing to bring up a player like Pouliot and let him develop, you end up with players that just can't cut it in the NHL against real contenders. Maatta is getting better, but they throw him into the same issue that they've done since his rookie year, expecting him to anchor a top four pairing.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Letang didn't really do anything wrong there. If there's a secondary responsibility on that goal (and I'd put it solely on Daley), it's Fleury, in that he was cheating stick side despite OV's body position making it impossible to shoot it anywhere but glove side or five hole. You can see this pretty clearly from the ice level reverse angle. He leaves the post to drift stickside, which OV has no shooting angle at.

Still, shooter that deadly with that much time taking a shot from that location, you really can't expect a goaltender to make the save. That goal's all Daley, to me.

Second OV goal was just a shooting gallery, though. IDK who was killing that penalty, but they weren't doing their jobs at all.

First goal isn't on Letang. He's not sure who Daley is going to take and by the time Daley commits, Letang's in no man's land and it's too late.

The 4th goal is entirely on him though. It was a lazy play where he didn't bother to cover anyone.

2nd goal on the PP, I'll put some but not all of it on him. It's his job there to kick out and cheat a little towards Ovechkin once the puck gets to Carlson.

58 really hasn't been all that good this year.