Post-Game Talk: Caps 5, Pens 2 - At Least No Ovechkin HT

[billybudd]

Letang was really bad. Daley was bad. Maatta was a pylon. Oleksy shouldn't be here. I agree with KIRK that our forward lines don't have cohesion but the lack of transition game tonight was a big problem.

Yeah, that was my takeaway.

Daley played OV's first goal completely wrong. Letang was in the passing lane (sort of...his body wasn't necessarily in the right line, but I don't doubt he has the hand-eye to have picked off a pass anyway) and had no theoretical way to gap up on #8, who was decelerating. What Daley should have done was backcheck on OV and strip him from behind. What he did do was recover to Backstrom (? Oshie?) too deep to actually pick him up, leaving Letang in a man to man situation in which he was flatfooted in no-man's land against hockey's deadliest shooter. Even if TD hadn't turned the puck over in the first place, that goal is still 100% on him.

Really, nobody on the blueline played well (Letang was noticeably wearing his dunce cap tonight, situation in the previous paragraph notwithstanding). Cole was probably the best of them.

The forward lines "didn't have any cohesion" or whatever because the only real clean, offensive zone time they got was off of turnovers they (not the D) forced in the neutral zone. Transition just wasn't there, otherwise.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

- Fleury played down to expectations.

- The defense helped Fleury play down to expectations.

+ This may, at least for a day or two, put to rest the notion that what the Pens really need right now is to trade D for wingers.

 

[Gurglesons]

How anyone can harp on Maatta and say Schultz had a good game is beyond me. Had a ton of giveaways and in general was terrible at following the play. Looked good on the power play after the Caps are up 3 - 0. Cool.

We aren't winning the cup with this defense and I don't care how Cole has looked, if you can make a move for a legitimate top four defenseman and it results in him being scratched do it.

 

[#66]

The most concerning thing to me is that Trotz has figured out the Pens and Sullivan. The Pens have looked really bad this year against the Caps... Even in their win.

 

[Gurglesons]

The most concerning thing to me is that Trotz has figured out the Pens and Sullivan. The Pens have looked really bad this year against the Caps... Even in their win.

The Penguins just haven't looked good against any contenders this year outside of the Sharks and the Rangers and I don't really consider the Rags contenders. They had a hot start, but they are clearly suffering from their defense.

This d-core needs a shake up by a trade and the offense needs a shake up by either a trade of internally with Guentz moving up. Fleury should be traded. You need to change a championship team otherwise they get complacent and think they can coast and just turn it on when they want. Chicago and LA are testaments to that.

 

[orby]

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Guentzel-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Kuhnhackl

If they're gonna trade for a for a forward it should either be:

1.) a right winger for Sid that lets them put Hornqvist on the 3rd line and Rust on the 4th (doubtful)
2. a left winger for Geno that lets them put Hagelin on the 3rd line and Guentzel on the 4th (more likely)
3. Just promote guentzel and play him with geno and hagelin on the third line.

In any case, Kunitz has to go to maximize this team's potential. He is dead weight and it sticks out like a sore thumb. The defense could use an upgrade too - Daley is slower than he used to be and i don't trust him and Dumoulin to take up 2 spots out of the top 4 in the playoffs.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Well good thing I fell asleep we Lost!! But damn 5-2 not happy

 

[ruunto71*]

Very very rare night that Crosby and Malkin are outplayed by their counterparts. Backstrom has 11p in 3 games against Pens this season

 

[Pens17]

“We had some good opportunities in and around the net. Still, we can't start like that,” Sidney Crosby said. “Can't give up a goal on the first shift.”

No, we cannot and expect to win vs. a quality opponent.

 

[orby]

Ovi was playing possessed but let's not forget giving up a goal on the first shift is classic MAF. He was good after that (until the third) but it's always a problem when you immediately have to play on your heels.

 

[Daeni10]

Ovi was playing possessed but let's not forget giving up a goal on the first shift is classic MAF. He was good after that (until the third) but it's always a problem when you immediately have to play on your heels.

While it is classic MAF and it has happened a lot this season, it wasn't his fault. And regardless of alle the goaltending **** that is going on here, this one is on the team. You have to give your goalie a chance to get into the game and it's not the first time that the Team wasn't able to do that with MAF in net.
At the end of the day though all that matters is the score, so while I feel really bad for Flower on a personal level, I am very happy that Murray is back soon and hopefully plays most of the games from now on

 

[Shwag33]

Caps seem to be gaining the mental edge against us. Doesn't bode well for our team if we happen to meet up against them in the playoffs. Kunitz and Fehr and sometimes Wilson are rendering us a two line team on a lot of nights. That's not going to cut it against teams like the Caps and Columbus. I hope JR doesn't plan on standing pat with these guys. It would be a real shame to throw away a legitimate chance at a repeat in 2017 for a now useless 2009 guy.

There is no mental edge gained in the regular season among top teams. Remember we scored 4 goals in an entire series against boston? We blew them out in the regular season (pretty sure we won ever game).

The caps had our number in the regular season last year as well. In fact I feel like most years the caps beat us in the regular season. Playoffs not so much.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Just finished watching the game. Horny still looked clueless at ES. Put either Rust or Kessel back with Malkin next game.

As for defense, I thought Daley was good offensively. Don't like Daley and Letang together.Their styles are too similar. Cole and Schultz were fine. Maatta and Olesky were pretty bad.The third goal was just pathetic. Olesky shouldn't play another game in NHL and was Maatta asked to play more aggressively by the coaching staff?I even saw him try to deke a capital player in the second period.I mean, WTF.

 

[wgknestrick]

I refuse to blame any of the players when our goalie gives up the first SOG so frequently. They have seen it too many times and just know that MAF...gonna MAF...some nights. I can't remember a game where he has given up the first (1-2) shots and the team has come back to both play well and win the game. They just quit and save the effort for another day. They have read this book before.

Until MM plays 60-75% of the games, I'm saving my player criticisms. It is a different team in front of him (we've proven this before statistically). When this team loses, it gets bad goaltending, no matter who is in. It's not like our goaltending is posting >.91SVs% and we still lose games. We generally lose games (like anyone) when it drops below .90%. Example tonight.

Sully is starting to frustrate me though with his lineups. STOP putting Bonino with Kessel! It just hasn't worked this year. HBK is dead and has been by far our worst line all year. Bonino has actually played his best (not saying much) with the other S on this team....Kunitz+Wilson/Rust. I understand there is no room under the cap, but this team needs to loose a couple of players (and their salaries) ASAP. Oh well, I've maintained that WSH was a sleeping giant, and this was probably their year. I'll stick to it. They are just a very, very good team. No shame in losing to them.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Ovi was playing possessed but let's not forget giving up a goal on the first shift is classic MAF. He was good after that (until the third) but it's always a problem when you immediately have to play on your heels.

Giving up a goal on the first shift was a team problem, not just on Fleury. He was less responsible for that goal than both D-men and whoever should have been covering for Daley back. Sid saying that isn't blaming Fleury, he's blaming everyone on the ice. Himself included.

I refuse to blame any of the players when our goalie gives up the first SOG so frequently. They have seen it too many times and just know that MAF...gonna MAF...some nights. I can't remember a game where he has given up the first (1-2) shots and the team has come back to both play well and win the game. They just quit and save the effort for another day. They have read this book before.

Until MM plays 60-75% of the games, I'm saving my player criticisms. It is a different team in front of him (we've proven this before statistically). When this team loses, it gets bad goaltending, no matter who is in. It's not like our goaltending is posting >.91SVs% and we still lose games. We generally lose games (like anyone) when it drops below .90%. Example tonight.

Sully is starting to frustrate me though with his lineups. I understand there is no room under the cap, but this team needs to loose a couple of players (and their salaries) ASAP. Oh well, I've maintained that WSH was a sleeping giant, and this was probably their year. I'll stick to it. They are just a very, very good team. No shame in losing to them.

Even when that goal is far more the players fault than the goalies?

We scored 2 goals last night. You don't win many games with 2 goals. Fleury wasn't great by any means, but he isn't near the top of the list of reasons we lost.

 

[The Greatest 101]

As long as the caps still play offensive black holes like Winnik,Eller,Connolly,Wilson in their bottom six, I'm not going to take them seriously.

 

[BHD]

Sid was the only player up to the task last night. Would Murray have been able to keep the game close? I'm not sure.

 

[wgknestrick]

Giving up a goal on the first shift was a team problem, not just on Fleury. He was less responsible for that goal than both D-men and whoever should have been covering for Daley back. Sid saying that isn't blaming Fleury, he's blaming everyone on the ice. Himself included.



Even when that goal is far more the players fault than the goalies?

I agree, but question if the players still don't give up due to frustrations of seeing it happen so often. He is kind of like a drug addict that just finds "bad luck". I think the players have given up on MAF to an extent. They kind of wait to see what MAF is on the ice with them for better or worse.

He is still expected to make those saves (high danger scoring chance saves) 80% of the time, and it just seems like we never get lucky with him in the begining minutes. MM is a full 5% better than MAF in high danger SV%. We can blame the D all we want, but our goalie still should be saving 80% (or 85% if we have high expectations) of the break downs. They aren't "automatic" conversions for other teams. This isn't like giving up a break away to Mario in 1990.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sid was the only player up to the task last night. Would Murray have been able to keep the game close? I'm not sure.

obviously. Sure, it was Ovi on a 2v1 poorly played by Letang, allowing him to change the angle and shoot unopposed from the slot. But it was the first shot, and first shots are easier to save than other shots. Or something.

I agree, but question if the players still don't give up due to frustrations of seeing it happen so often. He is kind of like a drug addict that just finds "bad luck". I think the players have given up on MAF to an extent. They kind of wait to see what MAF is on the ice with them for better or worse.

He is still expected to make those saves (high danger scoring chance saves) 80% of the time, and it just seems like we never get lucky with him in the begining minutes. MM is a full 5% better than MAF in high danger SV%. We can blame the D all we want, but our goalie still should be saving 80% (or 85% if we have high expectations) of the break downs. They aren't "automatic" conversions for other teams. This isn't like giving up a break away to Mario in 1990.

Murray is definitely better. Maybe he makes those saves. But last night, I refuse to blame on Fleury. You can't get much more dangerous than that first scoring chance. Or the 2nd. Those aren't just dangerous areas, they are Alex Ovechkin. And bad defense.

We need more timely saves from Fleury. We get them from Murray. I'm not saying Fleury had a good game even. Just that others had way worse games.

 

[PensandCaps]

who cares. we'll beat them when it maters.

 

[Matsun]

I'm getting a bit worried, I want to see us actually beating an inform cup contender instead of getting outclassed all the time.

 

[Ozz]

National game vs. Caps w/Ovie primed to hit a mega-milestone - what else was going to happen?

Tonight is the real statement, make sure we retain our resilience.

 

[wgknestrick]

obviously. Sure, it was Ovi on a 2v1 poorly played by Letang, allowing him to change the angle and shoot unopposed from the slot. But it was the first shot, and first shots are easier to save than other shots. Or something.



Murray is definitely better. Maybe he makes those saves. But last night, I refuse to blame on Fleury. You can't get much more dangerous than that first scoring chance. Or the 2nd. Those aren't just dangerous areas, they are Alex Ovechkin. And bad defense.

We need more timely saves from Fleury. We get them from Murray. I'm not saying Fleury had a good game even. Just that others had way worse games.

No save is worth more than another. If 1 isn't made it still results in a goal. They are all equal. When do we expect MAF to come up with a save then (age old argument it seems)? OV isn't automatic from those areas. We should still expect our goalie to make a save there more often than not. When we consistently don't get them, we blame the D even though any NHL goalie makes those saves 80% of the time. They weren't all empty net, tap ins. Holtby certainly made tough saves against the Pens.

MAF allows 1 out of every 5 breakdowns (HDSC) to result in a goal
MM allows 3 out of every 20 breakdowns (HDSC) to result in a goal

PIT allows between 8-9 HDSCA per game. You can start to see how MM gives you "free goal differential" over MAF each game. I'm not saying the D is faultless, but it's much harder to fix the "D" that consists of 18 skaters vs "the goalie" which is 1. I also don't know how many SCA come from our goalie (and his poor rebound control) either. This game become out of touch for the Pens before they even got their first goal.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Ovy played MAF for 82 games, he'd be the leading scorer in the league, no question. Guy owns him.

 

[Shady Machine]

How anyone can harp on Maatta and say Schultz had a good game is beyond me. Had a ton of giveaways and in general was terrible at following the play. Looked good on the power play after the Caps are up 3 - 0. Cool.

We aren't winning the cup with this defense and I don't care how Cole has looked, if you can make a move for a legitimate top four defenseman and it results in him being scratched do it.

How can anyone harp on Maatta? Dude was a pylon. He got walked multiple times and was just generally meh. I didn't really notice Schultz' turnovers but I'll have to take your word for it.