Confirmed with Link: Capitals to VA is dead. DC decides to pay $515 million dollars to upgrade capital one

[dreadpirateroberts]

I wonder if there will be plans to build on and off ramps on GW Pkwy to help with the traffic

 

[g00n]

The timing is weird. Story breaks as a leak of a final deal on Monday and 48hrs later there's a presser.

Seems like it was being hidden and probably wouldn't have been announced at all this year if not for the Monday story.

Only reason to hide it after secret negotiations is they know someone is going to be mad in a big way.

I would guess this was probably slated for reveal in the offseason, not now.

The move was described as "preliminary and exploratory" back in June and got little attention:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/06/23/monumental-nationals-dc-bowser/

Seems like talks with the city about upgrades/maintenance at C1 arena broke down and Monumental pulled the trigger, pretty quickly.

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The rendering seems to assume everyone is going there by Metro as I don't see much allowance being made for parking lots, which seems pretty audacious. You'd think one advantage of taking the team to VA would be having more space and being more accessible to driving fans. NoVa is pretty car-centric outside a few pockets in central Arlington and Alexandria after all.

Instead they're taking the 'urban entertainment district' concept just across the river into a less sexy location in Northern Virginia. Moving 20k people in and out of the area via the Yellow and Blue lines with a huge transfer movement around Rosslyn at 6 pm and close to 10 pm (when according to the newest blackmail WMATA budget proposal the stations would close?)..seems interesting.

In a worst case scenario this gives no-one what they want actually. VA fans aren't really getting to the games more easily or faster, D.C. fans feel like they lost the team, MD fans will face a longer trip (and the psychological step of having to 'cross the bridge'). Maybe the only party that gets its dream scenario here are Virginia economic development managers, who I think really needed another anchor to prop up that specific area.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

It’s odd to me DC hasn’t done more to keep them downtown. They have touted how much money the team brings to the city.

“Meanwhile D.C. Bid, an association of 11 business improvement districts across D.C., says Capital One Arena, which was privately financed and has never received public financing, has generated $800 million in cumulative tax revenue to D.C. since it opened. $54 million in 2023 alone.”

DC is also making money on the Nats stadium and adding it to the general revenue fund. I’m curious what urban planners/economists have to say since most times the stadium deals are not good returns on investment for the city.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I forgot to mention Leonsis as someone else who gets a lot out of it, of course. I assume much of the bill for all of this will be footed by VA taxpayers (so maybe MD+DC people should actually be happy about this after all).

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

The rendering seems to assume everyone is going there by Metro as I don't see much allowance being made for parking lots, which seems pretty audacious. You'd think one advantage of taking the team to VA would be having more space and being more accessible to driving fans. NoVa is pretty car-centric outside a few pockets in central Arlington and Alexandria after all.

Instead they're taking the 'urban entertainment district' concept just across the river into a less sexy location in Northern Virginia. Moving 20k people in and out of the area via the Yellow and Blue lines with a huge transfer movement around Rosslyn at 6 pm and close to 10 pm (when according to the newest blackmail WMATA budget proposal the stations would close?)..seems interesting.

In a worst case scenario this gives no-one what they want actually. VA fans aren't really getting to the games more easily or faster, D.C. fans feel like they lost the team, MD fans will face a longer trip (and the psychological step of having to 'cross the bridge'). Maybe the only party that gets its dream scenario here are Virginia economic development managers, who I think really needed another anchor to prop up that specific area.

It sounds like the entire strip mall will have an underground parking garage

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Interestingly, this was where Jack Kent Cooke wanted his new stadium before moving the build site to Landover.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

I think Ted is still in the "don't forget about me" stage regarding DC. Those in power there might find a way to make their best-and-final offer somewhat better. Ted won't own the land or facility in VA so I'm not sure how much he sees or desires a real estate empire. imo he's bought into the entertainment empire mindset and among other wants he needs add'l programming for Monumental. From what I've read, the VA complex would be a way for him to get a new arena as well as some add-ons like the concert space. To go along with this, the Dems in the VA legislature may want a few benefits from Yungkin that he'll find hard to swallow, making the financial side less than a slam-dunk. So imo it's still possible that DC comes up with a better pkg than what they've offered so far, and Ted settles for improvements on the status quo instead of the big move we're hearing about today.

 

[Brick City]

This is a pretty big stretch. There's not much relationship between teams being downtown or not and how successful they are. Obviously you don't want to be waaaay out in the boonies, but Potomac Yards is still going to be closer to downtown DC than many other NHL rinks, including some pretty big & successful franchises like the Flyers and Devils.

This image recently went semi-viral, showing the distances of NHL rinks relative to their city hall overlaid on a map of Ottawa (although it doesn't depict Florida or New Jersey, both of which would be entirely off the map). If the Caps were to relocate, they wouldn't be anywhere near the Ottawa-level of displacement.

Devils fan here who takes in a game at CapOne usually once a year (I'm a UMD alum and come down to mix in various sports) so following this thread with interest.

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm confused as to how the Devils aren't considered in their downtown, unless they are very inaccurately being considered a part of NYC. Prudential Center is literally in downtown Newark a couple blocks from Newark City Hall in one direction and Newark Penn Station in the other (I dropped a red pin on city hall in the screenshot below).

I'm hoping this isn't the start / continuation of a trend away from downtowns because I am one of those that much prefers the arena location in Newark to the meadowlands (where the Giants and Jets play).

As far as CapOne is concerned, my friend and I come in from the Annapolis area so it's relatively convenient and before 2020 we enjoyed the area. Grab dinner before the game and catch a movie at the adjacent movie theater after. I don't have enough of a handle on if the immediate vicinity has gone downhill since.

 

[msimons10]

I don't think traffic will be as bad we think, maybe.

Lets assume they'll add ramps to and from GW Parkway.

Also, its shown the Target strip mall will be offices/condos which I imagine will/must include many parking garages.

They also could adjust traffic patterns on gameday on Rt 1 and/or Potomac Ave to add more lanes for fans. Although during rush hour could be an issue.

I think it will be similar to an Os game. A lot will take metro (light rail); a lot will go out to eat/drink before and after games; and eveyone else is going straight to the garages to (mostly) get on the same road (395 to 95 in Balt) yet no traffic aside from getting out of garages.

Unlike FedEx, minimal metro riders and no attractions, so everyone is fighting to get on the beltway at the same time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ted has always been held captive by the deal Abe made to get the last of his $ to build the arena. For every ticket sold the city gets $10, plus they have a luxury box to use. I’ve heard Leonsis speak about his contempt for the agreement several times. This gets him out of that nonsense.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Ted has always been held captive by the deal Abe made to get the last of his $ to build the arena. For every ticket sold the city gets $10, plus they have a luxury box to use. I’ve heard Leonsis speak about his contempt for the agreement several times. This gets him out of that nonsense.

That is fair. Ted didn’t negotiate or build the arena. Most owners want a say in their arena deal and Ted never got that. Not saying I have any sympathy for him but I understand where he is coming from.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I don't think traffic will be as bad we think, maybe.

Lets assume they'll add ramps to and from GW Parkway.

Also, its shown the Target strip mall will be offices/condos which I imagine will/must include many parking garages.

They also could adjust traffic patterns on gameday on Rt 1 and/or Potomac Ave to add more lanes for fans. Although during rush hour could be an issue.

I think it will be similar to an Os game. A lot will take metro (light rail); a lot will go out to eat/drink before and after games; and eveyone else is going straight to the garages to (mostly) get on the same road (395 to 95 in Balt) yet no traffic aside from getting out of garages.

Unlike FedEx, minimal metro riders and no attractions, so everyone is fighting to get on the beltway at the same time.

Have you been over to Potomac Yard recently? Traffic is already horrible, and there are probably 1000 new residential units sitting empty. When those fill up and HQ2 moves in, that Rt. 1 corridor will be more miserable, and that's not even considering the impact 20,000 people coming in 120+ days a year will have.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't think traffic will be as bad we think, maybe.

Lets assume they'll add ramps to and from GW Parkway.

Also, its shown the Target strip mall will be offices/condos which I imagine will/must include many parking garages.

They also could adjust traffic patterns on gameday on Rt 1 and/or Potomac Ave to add more lanes for fans. Although during rush hour could be an issue.

I think it will be similar to an Os game. A lot will take metro (light rail); a lot will go out to eat/drink before and after games; and eveyone else is going straight to the garages to (mostly) get on the same road (395 to 95 in Balt) yet no traffic aside from getting out of garages.

Unlike FedEx, minimal metro riders and no attractions, so everyone is fighting to get on the beltway at the same time.

I've sat in traffic jams on Rte 1 in Alexandria on Sundays at like 1 pm. It's difficult to imagine traffic there on a Wednesday at 6 pm with a Caps game on in Potomac Yard will be anything but a catastrophe.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Imagine trying to catch a flight out of DCA on a game day...

 

[g00n]

So could still be a ploy to push the City into action on C1 arena...

 

[StrikingDistance]

For those who don't know, they're already widening GW Parkway where it connects with 495 on the northern loop by American Legion bridge. Regardless, traffic around here sucks and will continue to do so. They should change the team name to the Virginia Gridlock.

As for me, the last few games I went to at Cap1, were not pleasant experiences. Painfully loud EDM music, subpar snacks that cost $15, small seats, etc etc. Rather sit a local bar and pay half the price for better beer and food.

finally, Ted is going to go where he can make a better margin. DC is too expensive compared to VA and Bowser continues to be a bozo in not finding a way to keep the team downtown.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

What we learned about the Metro and Nats games is they dont care about sports fans. Are we sure the Metro wont close before games end.

Not happy with Mayor Bowser and Ted. The real losers here are the Fans from their piss fight over greed.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Re: getting there. For traffic coming up 395, Glebe Road is the most direct route to and from the proposed site. Last time I was on it, that road was 2 lanes in each direction and won't be able to carry the traffic load.

 

[um]

I better see a game at Verizon Center, I mean Capital One, before it closes forever.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

View attachment 782740

So could still be a ploy to push the City into action on C1 arena...

That's Kirk McPike of Alexandria City Council, so he's talking about the concerns over there. But development management types in NoVa are experts at dealing with local gov't when it comes to things like this. How many major projects in NoVa have been killed by local resident opposition? If something fails, like the tram down Columbia Pike, it's more likely due to funding than local opposition. If someone is willing to pump money into it, local pols are happy to sign off in the end.

The 'angle' tends to be that the promised improvements would - at least in a Powerpoint presentation - benefit everyone while the negatively affected parties are just one group in one neighborhood that can be isolated.

 

[Block]

It sounds like the entire strip mall will have an underground parking garage

That's not a recipe for tons of car break ins or anything.

 

[nickp91]

another note the wizards moving to Alexandria opens Baltimore right up for a NBA expansion franchise

 

[Brian23]

The wild thing about Caps Center is it was done the "right way", and the city still thumbs their nose towards the organization.

However, a competing proposal soon emerged, when Robert Johnson, head of Black Entertainment Television, offered to build the arena with mostly private financing.[22] With the arena deal facing criticism amid the District's budget crisis, Pollin eventually agreed to privately fund the construction of the building, which ultimately came to $200 million[23][24] (US$353 million in 2022 dollars[3]).

Yet, they're charging Ted close to 40 million dollars (can't imagine it hasn't gone up since 2016) while dropping their side of the bargain.

Leonsis has for several years complained about having a mortgage with unfavorable terms on Capital One Arena, which in 2016 he estimated cost him $36 million annually. He called it “the worst building deal in professional sports” and suggested that he could leave the city when he paid off the mortgage.

So like...why would anyone want to stick around?