Capitals History Pt. 1 (former players & coaches, past seasons, etc.)

[BobRouse]

bad bounces?

Nope. Injuries and hot goalie.

Only other teams are allowed to have reasons that factored into as to why they lost.

 

[g00n]

Nope. Injuries and hot goalie.

Only other teams are allowed to have reasons that factored into as to why they lost.

40 years of failure, man. More blown 2 game leads than probably any other franchise in a major NA sport.

It's more than luck. Luck is a coinflip. The odds against a coin coming up tails 30-40 times in a row are astronomical. It's a curse or it's an institutional mentality.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Nope. Injuries and hot goalie.

Only other teams are allowed to have reasons that factored into as to why they lost.

There's a difference between "Eric Fehr missed a few games and Marcus Johansson wasn't playing at 100% (lol)" and 4 defensemen were out due to injury.

 

[txpd]

no question that each choke job makes the next choke job more likely, not less likely. but what BR says is also true. the caps were hot goalie'd v montreal and hosed on the knuble call. if a hot goalie or a bad call or a bad bounce is good for buffalo, then it applies to the caps. how many cups do they have in buffalo?

its also true that every ridiculous bad break plays into the caps history. am I remembering wrong or didn't the caps get a break v buffalo that allowed them into the finals? a toe in the crease when it was not allowed at the time? BR?

 

[g00n]

We're not hitching our wagon to lofty company if we're comparing our playoff success to Buffalo. At least they've been to the finals twice, but their recent performance is much worse. Maybe it's institutional with them as well.

There's a lot of confirmation bias in our assessment of playoff "woulda couldas". Every team that gets knocked out has a few bad calls or bad bounces. The teams that win Cups overcome that stuff eventually. They don't cling to "luck" for 40 years.

 

[txpd]

the choking history carries weight. it creates its own problems. many here claim it has no effect as one group is different from the one before. but here were are now. how many chokes on ov's record? trotz is fully invested.

the first choke. the islanders easter nightmare. created because bob mason's skate broke to create the late tying goal. straight up bad luck. freak deal. joel ward's high stick was a bad play. joel ward's goalie interference in game5 last season, bad call. its a nice mixture of bad luck and their fault.

esa missing an empty net was a bad play. its always something.

the real issue is that the caps don't trust why they fail anymore. the team that lost to montreal was a freaking juggernaut. losing that series because of a hot goalie and a bad call in the clutch destroyed the team. it wasn't passed off as the bad luck that it was but destroyed their confidence and ended up forcing them to treat a small issue with a major transplant of their game. that lead directly to hunter and oates. a cup winner would have dismissed the circumstances of the series loss and kept the juggernaut going.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

the real issue is that the caps don't trust why they fail anymore. the team that lost to montreal was a freaking juggernaut. losing that series because of a hot goalie and a bad call in the clutch destroyed the team. it wasn't passed off as the bad luck that it was but destroyed their confidence and ended up forcing them to treat a small issue with a major transplant of their game. that lead directly to hunter and oates. a cup winner would have dismissed the circumstances of the series loss and kept the juggernaut going.

What was the D on that team again? That was an offensive machine that was going nowhere. It just happened a series or two early.

This season is the most complete team we've had since 1996. Sure the Ovechkin era teams should have a series or two more than they do, but they have never been built to actually win a Cup.

Whether it's Morrisonn as your shutdown dman or Ward as your 1RW, or a parade of rookie goalies this team has had enormous holes every single year.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

the choking history carries weight. it creates its own problems. many here claim it has no effect as one group is different from the one before. but here were are now. how many chokes on ov's record? trotz is fully invested.

the first choke. the islanders easter nightmare. created because bob mason's skate broke to create the late tying goal. straight up bad luck. freak deal. joel ward's high stick was a bad play. joel ward's goalie interference in game5 last season, bad call. its a nice mixture of bad luck and their fault.

esa missing an empty net was a bad play. its always something.

the real issue is that the caps don't trust why they fail anymore. the team that lost to montreal was a freaking juggernaut. losing that series because of a hot goalie and a bad call in the clutch destroyed the team. it wasn't passed off as the bad luck that it was but destroyed their confidence and ended up forcing them to treat a small issue with a major transplant of their game. that lead directly to hunter and oates. a cup winner would have dismissed the circumstances of the series loss and kept the juggernaut going.

The series against the Habs exposed our biggest weakness. If we kept going with the same team the year after, a hot goalie like Thomas would've put an end to our run again.

The 2010 Caps were an offensive juggernaut. It worked well against teams that didn't have a brick wall in nets.

 

[BobRouse]

no question that each choke job makes the next choke job more likely, not less likely. but what BR says is also true. the caps were hot goalie'd v montreal and hosed on the knuble call. if a hot goalie or a bad call or a bad bounce is good for buffalo, then it applies to the caps. how many cups do they have in buffalo?

its also true that every ridiculous bad break plays into the caps history. am I remembering wrong or didn't the caps get a break v buffalo that allowed them into the finals? a toe in the crease when it was not allowed at the time? BR?

40 years of failure, man. More blown 2 game leads than probably any other franchise in a major NA sport.

It's more than luck. Luck is a coinflip. The odds against a coin coming up tails 30-40 times in a row are astronomical. It's a curse or it's an institutional mentality.

I agree with TX and with goon's assessment of institutional mentality. I think they go along the same path.

With each successive "choke" it makes the next more likely. Sorta like negative momentum or when hitters get into a slump only its organizational wide and spans years.

If we look at our 98 cup run:

Series 1: Dominated by Bs. Dafoe was AWFUL! Kolzig with insanely good. Toe in crease.

Series 2: Got outplayed by an Ottawa team. We won one game being outshot 40-10. We had a "hot goalie"

Series 3: We got a break on a offside/icing call non-call...don't recall which. But it gaves us an OT win. Then there was Bondra slightly bumping Hasek causing the glove throw incident. If that was Knuble in the modern day he probably gets called.


The history of the Caps has not been kind. We rarely get the hot goalie, breaks and get on a streak at the right time.

The Sabres and Blues can say the same thing as can a great many other sporting teams.

The series against the Habs exposed our biggest weakness. If we kept going with the same team the year after, a hot goalie like Thomas would've put an end to our run again.

The 2010 Caps were an offensive juggernaut. It worked well against teams that didn't have a brick wall in nets.

The Penguins got Halaked that year too if you recall. They were the defending champs.

Sometimes a goalie gets hot for a span of a couple weeks and it just becomes near impossible to beat him. Halak was a historic example of that.

We should have kept the same coach, same system and just brought in a vet dman. Instead we changed the way we played and decided to trap.

 

[g00n]

Series 3: We got a break on a offside/icing call non-call...don't recall which. But it gaves us an OT win. Then there was Bondra slightly bumping Hasek causing the glove throw incident. If that was Knuble in the modern day he probably gets called.

This illustrates my point. Buffalo fans will view that Bondra thing the way we view the most recent Ward no-goal. Every team has moments like these that they can point to and say "we got screwed in that series".

Also have to go back and look at how we got on this tangent from "league news"...this is sounding more like Caps history discussion.

edit: Oh yeah, Briere talk.

 

[BobRouse]

This illustrates my point. Buffalo fans will view that Bondra thing the way we view the most recent Ward no-goal. Every team has moments like these that they can point to and say "we got screwed in that series".

Also have to go back and look at how we got on this tangent from "league news"...this is sounding more like Caps history discussion.

edit: Oh yeah, Briere talk.

Some teams far more than others.

I think Buffalo has had their fair share of skrewery.

In 92-93 they had a pretty good team!! Lafontaine and Mogilny were tearing the league apart and they had a very productive Hawerchuck too. Fuhr was strong in net.

But...by the time they played Montreal Lafontaine, Mogilny and Fuhr were all injured. Derek Plante and Hawerchuk were their prime offensive threats. Hasek was not what he was a year later. They lost all 4 games to Montreal in OT despite this.

Then the Hull goal in game 6 the year they followed getting a couple bad calls against us.

Then against Carolina they lose their entire D.

Our history makes that look like nothing however!!

 

[g00n]

Some teams far more than others.

I think Buffalo has had their fair share of skrewery.

In 92-93 they had a pretty good team!! Lafontaine and Mogilny were tearing the league apart and they had a very productive Hawerchuck too. Fuhr was strong in net.

But...by the time they played Montreal Lafontaine, Mogilny and Fuhr were all injured. Derek Plante and Hawerchuk were their prime offensive threats. Hasek was not what he was a year later. They lost all 4 games to Montreal in OT despite this.

Then the Hull goal in game 6 the year they followed getting a couple bad calls against us.

Then against Carolina they lose their entire D.

Our history makes that look like nothing however!!

That's a good list but it's also from our perspective. Fans that follow teams religiously will have longer lists for their own teams than others due to familiarity. I bet Buffalo fans that go back 45 years can come up plenty more of these, same as every team.

The difference seems to be for the Caps it happens even when they're on the brink of victory, again and again. It's maddening.

But yeah, back to Briere, he's like a Brashear type to me. Not in playing style, but that kind of guy you really hate as an opponent but would love on your team. Imagine this team with Briere on it during the GMGM era...

 

[BobRouse]

That's a good list but it's also from our perspective. Fans that follow teams religiously will have longer lists for their own teams than others due to familiarity. I bet Buffalo fans that go back 45 years can come up plenty more of these, same as every team.

The difference seems to be for the Caps it happens even when they're on the brink of victory, again and again. It's maddening.

But yeah, back to Briere, he's like a Brashear type to me. Not in playing style, but that kind of guy you really hate as an opponent but would love on your team. Imagine this team with Briere on it during the GMGM era...

Sure. Those are just the tip of the iceberg for that team. There are plenty of other teams with bad histories however.

Briere sure hurt us back in 07-08. He was like Dino Ciccarelli in alot of ways. Undersized, fiesty, not very good defensively, put up clutch goals in the playoffs.

Hard to think Phoenix gave up on him so easily. He had a 32 goal breakout season at 25 years old, dipped a bit the next year and got moved at the deadline for a slightly older and less productive Gratton (who never came close to living up to what people thought he'd be)

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The Penguins got Halaked that year too if you recall. They were the defending champs.

Sometimes a goalie gets hot for a span of a couple weeks and it just becomes near impossible to beat him. Halak was a historic example of that.

We should have kept the same coach, same system and just brought in a vet dman. Instead we changed the way we played and decided to trap.

The closest we ever got to the Cup was last year, we were 100 seconds away from the semifinals. I like the 2015 Caps better than any other team in the Ovechkin era. Not as explosive offensively as the 2010 Caps, but the current defense and Holtby trumps anything we've had before.

Next year, I expect the team to go to the next level, to get past the second round at least.

You see, we got Halaked, but if we kept the same team, we would've gotten Hank'ed anyway.

 

[Hivemind]

The closest the Capitals have ever gotten to the Cup was last year? Huh?
You realize the team went to the ECF in 1990 and the SCF in 1998, right? Even among Ovechkin-era teams, they've been to game 7 of the ECSF multiple times.

 

[Ajax1995]

...and 4 defensemen were out due to injury.

Well everyone knows you need to go 10 deep with solid NHL defensemen right...?

Their defense for game 7 against Carolina was Campbell and Lydman and then 4 AHL guys, Fitzpatrick, Jillson, Janik, and Nathan friggin' Paetsch. The last 3 played a combined 3 regular season NHL games that season.

That is unbelievable tough luck IMO...

 

[usiel]

Well everyone knows you need to go 10 deep with solid NHL defensemen right...?

Their defense for game 7 against Carolina was Campbell and Lydman and then 4 AHL guys, Fitzpatrick, Jillson, Janik, and Nathan friggin' Paetsch. The last 3 played a combined 3 regular season NHL games that season.

That is unbelievable tough luck IMO...

Thats coming back to me. That team had some mojo going and injuries destroyed it.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The closest the Capitals have ever gotten to the Cup was last year? Huh?
You realize the team went to the ECF in 1990 and the SCF in 1998, right? Even among Ovechkin-era teams, they've been to game 7 of the ECSF multiple times.

I forgot to say "in the Ovechkin era".

Yes, we got to game 7 of the second round multiple times, but we've never been this close to actually winning the second round.

In 2009, we got bounced 6-2 by the Pens.
In 2012, we lost 2-1 in regulation

This year, it took OT, after being extremely close in game 5.

 

[BobRouse]

Thats coming back to me. That team had some mojo going and injuries destroyed it.

Injuries destroyed our 1990 team too.

Dino had 8 goals in 6 games vs the favored Devils. Out early in round 2.

Hatcher was a MONSTER back then. Hit, scored, fought and was mean as heck and had a fantastic 1st round vs the Devils. Out early in round 2.

Beaupre out early in round 2.

Then to finish things off Stevens had a separated shoulder he somehow played through vs the Bs.

Also in 87-88 we beat the Devils if Langway doesn't get hurt. Langway was one of the best D in the league at that time and his loss crushed us.

Lots of teams get derailed by horrible injury luck. There was something especially sad that they had all their injuries on D but still...

Luck is a factor. That includes getting hot at the right time, avoiding injuries, getting calls at the right times etc

In 07-08 - Thoreson wiped out Shamo and Huet (shouldn't have been a goal)
In 08-09 - Pens had 35 PPs to our 19 with some especially suspicious calls.
In 09-10 - Ovechkin game tying goal wiped out with the ticky tackiest of goalie interference.
In 11-12 - Somehow they allow Ward's goal to stand despite Knuble follow thru taking out Thomas a bit. I guess we only get calls against the Bs...

 

[g00n]

In 08-09 - Pens had 35 PPs to our 19 with some especially suspicious calls.

If I remember right, they got tons of calls in every series and maybe all year long.

 

[BobRouse]

If I remember right, they got tons of calls in every series and maybe all year long.

There was a great article on Japers Rink breaking this down and the sheer lunacy of the disparity.

I think during the regular season the Pens were +13 overall in differential and we were a bad -50. That equates to about .75 extra PPs per game difference. In that series it was over 2 PPs per game difference.

The Rangers series a couple years ago was even more brutal.

Here is one article last year (not the one I was thinking of above):

http://www.japersrink.com/2015/4/23/8472801/the-noon-number-lack-of-opportunity

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

The way I remember the 2009 series is that Pittsburgh earned their penalties. We couldn't clear the zone at all. Which is no surprise as we had Morrisonnn, Jurcina, Green, Pothier, Poti and Erskine at the time. Go back and re-watch a game. It was nerve-wracking watching Crosby and Malkin skate around our horrible D like pylons. The only reason that series was close was because of Ovechkin and Varlamov. Which again brings up the point that it's hard to call the Ovechkin Caps cursed when they were horribly built teams with too many major holes to be considered contenders.

 

[txpd]

In 2012, we lost 2-1 in regulation

This year, it took OT, after being extremely close in game 5.

don't forget joel ward's high stick penalty in 2012 game 5 round 2. 22 seconds left to go with a 2-1 lead in the game and a 3-2 lead in games waiting with a win. maybe the caps choke again if they win that game, but after beating the bruins, maybe not.

 

[txpd]

The way I remember the 2009 series is that Pittsburgh earned their penalties. We couldn't clear the zone at all. Which is no surprise as we had Morrisonnn, Jurcina, Green, Pothier, Poti and Erskine at the time. Go back and re-watch a game. It was nerve-wracking watching Crosby and Malkin skate around our horrible D like pylons. The only reason that series was close was because of Ovechkin and Varlamov. Which again brings up the point that it's hard to call the Ovechkin Caps cursed when they were horribly built teams with too many major holes to be considered contenders.

bottom line is that with all of that the penguins only survived on the strength of two overtime power play bank shots off Caps skates.

the Erskine penalty in ot in game 3 was pretty cheap.

oh...and this is the same series where the pens earn their calls and kunitz crosschecks varly in the neck and goes free.

 

[RandyHolt]

The way I remember the 2009 series is that Pittsburgh earned their penalties....

Injuries and Bruce's stubbornness killed us.

I think we had 2 broken feet on D, Poti, Erskine, maybe Shamoo too. He had some injury.

Green couldn't shoot nor hit, but Bruce refused to use Pothier or Jurcina on the point on PP instead of Green. Even though both Pots and Juice scored goals in that series and were our only healthy Dmen.

The Pens skated circles around us. Varly stood on his head, but started showing signs of tiring in games 5 and 6, the glove late up. I know its argued until the end of time that you can only make one goalie change ever in the playoffs, but he needed to turn back to his undisputed number 1, Theo. And of course, didn't. Varly's finger in the dyke finally shriveled up after Ovi failed on that breakaway early in game 7, and the Varly meltdown ensued.