Cap Issues

[TheWanderer]

You people are crazy to want to ship out Higgins/ Hansen/ Burrows.

Higgins and Hansen have the making of a good NHL 3rd line. Both are on good contracts.

Now with Vrbada added to the mix, the top 6 is closer to resembling an actual top 6. Turning around and taking Burrows out of that group would be taking one step forward then two steps back.

This was originally a conversation about the effects of these players on the cap, but it's hit a bit of a tangent.

At any rate: Higgins last year was worth his salary. Burrows and Hansen were not, but could be next year. In my opinion, gambling that salary and roster spot on one of these players is fine, but gambling it on both may not be.

I think Burrows has a long way to go to be worth a top 6 position again. That's a tough sell, at this point in time, and there is nobody in the system to replace him should he falter. Hansen, on the other hand, can be replaced internally if he falters. So having said that, I want to replace Burrows with someone stable, and roll the dice on Hansen. If he flops, someone else (like Matthias) can move up. If he pays out, he keeps Matthias down to fill out the depth.

Burrows, on the other hand, could be moved out to create cap space for someone who isn't quite as much of a question mark. If we roll the dice on Burrows and he flops, we have a crappy top 6 again. If we roll the dice and he pays out, well that was a bit less work for Benning.

IMO, that LW slot is the hole, and it should be filled. I don't think Burrows fills it, and I don't think Burrows's 4.5 is allowable in the bottom 6.

Burrows was trending down prior to the catastrophic season. Hansen was trending up. Therefore, I want to keep Hansen, but not Burrows.

Don't get me wrong. Moving Burrows is an ideal situation, IMO, but I would not be upset if none of these guys were moved.

 

[jigsaw99]

You people are crazy to want to ship out Higgins/ Hansen/ Burrows.

Higgins and Hansen have the making of a good NHL 3rd line. Both are on good contracts.

Now with Vrbada added to the mix, the top 6 is closer to resembling an actual top 6. Turning around and taking Burrows out of that group would be taking one step forward then two steps back.

problem is we have too many 3rd line guys

 

[LolClarkson*]

There is already rumors that Tanev is playing hardball and Kassian didn't accept his qualifying offer.

They can have their day in arbitration.

 

[TheWanderer]

There is already rumors that Tanev is playing hardball and Kassian didn't accept his qualifying offer.

They can have their day in arbitration.

Well, of course neither accepted the obligatory QO.

 

[RandV]

Burrows, on the other hand, could be moved out to create cap space for someone who isn't quite as much of a question mark. If we roll the dice on Burrows and he flops, we have a crappy top 6 again. If we roll the dice and he pays out, well that was a bit less work for Benning.

And what sort of assets will that cost us? It's one thing if there was a Mike Cammalleri left to sign, but there's no one better than Burrows left in the UFA pool. You're essentially looking at 'contract dumping' Burrows, then paying what could be significant assets for another top 6 LW, if you can find one available. And this is all reliant on Burrows agreeing to waive his NTC, a request that was likely already made and denied.

And there's plenty of space left to resign our remaining RFA's, once it's all done we should near the cap with a decent enough buffer zone that you always want to have.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

There is already rumors that Tanev is playing hardball and Kassian didn't accept his qualifying offer.

They can have their day in arbitration.

Well of course they're not going to accept their QOs.

Kassian will be signed in the next few days if he isn't already.

 

[mossey3535]

I think the way this fanbase treats Hansen is the biggest example of what have you done for me lately ever.

16g, 26 point pace as a 23 year old (looks like a solid 3rd/4th line tweener that could be a mainstay on the 3rd line)
9g, 29 point pace as a 24 year old (looks like a fantastic shut-down player who contributes some offense but will always be very limited in that area)
16g, 39 point pace as a 25 year old (looks like a fantastic two-way shut-down player, an ideal 3rd liner)
17g, 47 point pace as a 26 year old (borders on a Selke-level season, produces like a 2nd liner with 3rd line minutes, an ideal shut-down forward who has chemistry with just about anyone, about as good as you can expect without being a key offensive player)

Gets hit with sizeable injury, Torts misuses him, doesn't click this season, everyone has an awful year where nobody executes any semblance of a system

13g, 23 point pace as a 27 year old

"Trade this piece of sh**!!!"

He still has upside, has some good years ahead of him that will still be useful when the young guys get better, and his value isn't that high right now. I would trade either Higgins or Burrows ahead of him, personally. Hansen is essentially a young Burrows (likely without the big 30 goal Sedin seasons, but even then, who knows)-- I want a young Burrows on this team.

I read this and I don't say 'trade him because he's a piece of whatever', I say 'trade him because he's clearly plateau-ed and likely has no upside.'

I mean you've basically made a long and passionate post about how Hansen has averaged 14 goals a season ... PACE. Of all the goal totals you put up, he ONLY HIT ONE. ALL of the rest are projected. Ok twice, I'll give you the pro-rating on the lockout shortened season. But it doesn't make an argument for keeping him IMO. In actual goals he's only averaged 10 goals a season. If you count since his first full season, he's averaged 12 goals a season.

They both kill penalties and are hard working - but why would you keep Hansen over a guy who averages 23 goals per year - and has hit 35+ goals four times ... as opposed to 'he still has upside'. It's not like Hansen hasn't been tried in the top-6 either - I would say he got a lot of unearned looks up there.

 

[mossey3535]

I also think it's funny that so much of the justification for early moves was to 'clear cap space' and with one signing (Miller) we are up against the cap.

We signed an old winger and old goaltender. With that money I'd rather have picked up an old winger and and old PMD. Or two old forwards. The more I look at it, the dumber the Miller move looks to me.

 

[absolute garbage]

That Miller signing looking great already. Surely there was no better position in need of upgrade/depth to spend 6 million in.

 

[serge2k]

I feel like one of Burrows, Hansen, or Richardson plus one of the goalies will be on their way out.

What could Lack + Burrows fetch us? Throw a good prospect in there, like Shinkaruk, and suddenly we have a pretty sweet offer for somebody.

Yeah, burrows is only great value. He only makes almost a million per goal.

 

[jigsaw99]

Yeah, burrows is only great value. He only makes almost a million per goal.

he got them Clarkson intangibles

 

[Shareefruck]

I read this and I don't say 'trade him because he's a piece of whatever', I say 'trade him because he's clearly plateau-ed and likely has no upside.'

I mean you've basically made a long and passionate post about how Hansen has averaged 14 goals a season ... PACE. Of all the goal totals you put up, he ONLY HIT ONE. ALL of the rest are projected. Ok twice, I'll give you the pro-rating on the lockout shortened season. But it doesn't make an argument for keeping him IMO. In actual goals he's only averaged 10 goals a season. If you count since his first full season, he's averaged 12 goals a season.

They both kill penalties and are hard working - but why would you keep Hansen over a guy who averages 23 goals per year - and has hit 35+ goals four times ... as opposed to 'he still has upside'. It's not like Hansen hasn't been tried in the top-6 either - I would say he got a lot of unearned looks up there.

You're saying "he never hits his pace" like that's some shot at him not living up to expectations. You only hit your pace if you play all 82 games.

I would rather have a 15 goal, 40 point 28 year old shut-down forward consistently trending up than a 20 goal, 45-50 point 33 year old shut-down winger (I think that's pretty optimistic actually) trending down, given the situation this team is currently in, personally. Let's say Burrows miraculously does hit 30 goals, 55 points again not playing with the twins. He's only going to do it for a couple more years max, and personally, I don't think something like that matters too much over the next two years.

By the time Horvat/Gaunce/Virtanen/Shinkaruk are core players and this team is ready to compete again, I think the trend suggests that Hansen will still be a 15 goal, 40 point player (or better, if we're lucky). I have a hard time believing Burrows won't be out of gas or dried up in terms of offense by that point.

I'm not trying to make some argument like "Look at his pace, by the time he's 33 he'll be a 60 point player!" or something. A 15 goal, 40-45 point 3rd line shutdown guy essentially in his prime is a fantastically valuable piece on a re-tooling team even if he never gets better than that.

If we think we're contenders, I might say keep Burrows instead. Even then it's a gamble, considering Burrows drop is a little more unprecedented.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Id do Burrows + Lack + Shinkaruk for Kane. Then sign Kassian for 2 yrs/1.75per, Tanev for 3 yrs/3.5per, Bey for 2yrs/900k per.

Sign Mcbain 1 year 3.25 per
Lineup.

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata
Kane-Bonino-Kassian
Higgins-Vey-Hansen
Matthias-Richardsson-Dorsett

Hamhuis-Tanev
Edler-Mcbain
Sbisa-Bieksa
Stanton-Corrado

Miller
Markstrom

I personally don't want to trade Lack. We need a Pmd for Edler + Top 6 left winger.