Prospect Info: Canucks Take D Joni Jurmo at 82nd Overall (JYP Jyväskylä)

[orcatown]

My question would be : does he actually have a lot of upside? Or do we just automatically think BIG PLUS FAST = HUGE UPSIDE when a more detailed look into past history might show that that isn't the case?

I don't think anyone projects this guy to be a point producer. You can see his decision making with the puck isn't great, and he's probably not heading to be an NHL PP QB. And does being tall and fast rushing the puck actually project into defensive upside somehow? I don't think so, especially when the player is considered quite poor defensively at this stage.

If he 'hits', he's probably a taller Matt Bartkowski. And is a taller Matt Bartkowski really 'big upside'?

How many players who can't think the game well at 18 actually reach 'high upside'?

___________

Honestly, since the day this pick was made I've been left wondering if it isn't a better idea to convert him to forward and see if his big/fast/low offensive IQ skillset projects better as a speedy checking winger.

Remember many kept saying the same thing about Pedan. Make him a fourth line enforcer. Tried that a bit in Utica but he looked totally lost and experiment quickly shelved.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Should have drafted Jake Thompson

You mean Jack Thompson?

 

[M2Beezy]

You mean Jack Thompson?

Oops, yeah, edited

 

[VanJack]

Not much doubt....Jurmo is a 'project'. The question will not be about the 'tools' but the 'toolbox' with him. He needs to come a long way defensively.

But whenever you draft a guy in the third round, all you're really looking for is continuous improvement from his draft year. Otherwise, he'd have been a first rounder.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Was listed as starting on the 3rd pair today, but only played 8:19, while Roni Allen (who was listed as the 7thD) played 16:01. Jurmo was minus 1 with a shot.

Here's his chance from yesterday,

 

[MS]

Remember many kept saying the same thing about Pedan. Make him a fourth line enforcer. Tried that a bit in Utica but he looked totally lost and experiment quickly shelved.

Extremely different type of player.

Jurmo is a defender with zero physical game who can't play defense. The way he skates *looks* like a forward.

As a raw project skillset, I think the odds are better that his size/skating projects as a middle-6 winger than that he magically develops hockey sense and figures out defense to the level that can play in the NHL.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Extremely different type of player.

Jurmo is a defender with zero physical game who can't play defense. The way he skates *looks* like a forward.

As a raw project skillset, I think the odds are better that his size/skating projects as a middle-6 winger than that he magically develops hockey sense and figures out defense to the level that can play in the NHL.

Ease up, he is 17. It’s premature to consider changing his position. Perhaps it’s worth revisiting at 19. Kid is very raw. I’m just glad they swung for the fences for upside with so few picks

 

[RobertKron]

Ease up, he is 17. It’s premature to consider changing his position. Perhaps it’s worth revisiting at 19. Kid is very raw. I’m just glad they swung for the fences for upside with so few picks

Not commenting on the viability of the idea, but if you're going to do it then earlier is almost certainly better.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Not commenting on the viability of the idea, but if you're going to do it then earlier is almost certainly better.

Sure that’s reasonable. However, I doubt anyone on these boards has spent enough time scouting a 3rd round selection Drafted a few weeks ago to make this determination.

 

[Nucker101]

I remember wanting to see Jordan Subban tried out as a winger lol

 

[The Iron Goalie]

I remember wanting to see Jordan Subban tried out as a winger lol

Jurmo is for sure a D prospect imo. It's always funny when people want to convert D prospects to wingers when the have Dzone issue's, and are skilled with skating ability.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Jurmo is for sure a D prospect imo. It's always funny when people want to convert D prospects to wingers when the have Dzone issue's, and are skilled with skating ability.

It sure is. Like is there no chance that coaching in a men’s league can correct some of his defensive deficiencies. Let’s throw in the towel, he is done

 

[VanJack]

Ease up, he is 17. It’s premature to consider changing his position. Perhaps it’s worth revisiting at 19. Kid is very raw. I’m just glad they swung for the fences for upside with so few picks

Exactly. When Jack Rathbone was the same age, he was playing high school hockey in New England. Prospects do actually show dramatic improve 'after' they're drafted.

 

[GetFocht]

Amazing how fast discussion can devolve in a thread.

 

[RobertKron]

It sure is. Like is there no chance that coaching in a men’s league can correct some of his defensive deficiencies. Let’s throw in the towel, he is done

Again, not weighing in one way or the other about this player because I know basically nothing about them, but it stands to reason that it becomes more difficult - not less - to correct issues with fundamentals as the opposition becomes stronger/faster/better, and as one moves from developmental leagues to professional leagues. Obviously he can still grow as a player, but just using "men's league coaching" to wave away issues is probably a bit silly.

I think we often forget that leagues like the KHL, SHL, Liiga, etc. aren't positioned in the same way as the AHL. Obviously these leagues feed talent to the NHL, but these aren't developmental leagues with affiliate programs where teams are tasked to work on projects for the benefit of their parent club. You even saw issues with this when the Canucks got stuck with the Wolves, a club that operated on its own agenda, as their minor league affiliate, which ultimately led to the team buying their own AHL franchise so that they guarantee that decisions were being made in the interest of the parent club.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Again, not weighing in one way or the other about this player because I know basically nothing about them, but it stands to reason that it becomes more difficult - not less - to correct issues with fundamentals as the opposition becomes stronger/faster/better, and as one moves from developmental leagues to professional leagues. Obviously he can still grow as a player, but just using "men's league coaching" to wave away issues is probably a bit silly.

I think we often forget that leagues like the KHL, SHL, Liiga, etc. aren't positioned in the same way as the AHL. Obviously these leagues feed talent to the NHL, but these aren't developmental leagues with affiliate programs where teams are tasked to work on projects for the benefit of their parent club. You even saw this when the Canucks got stuck with the Wolves, a club that operated on its own agenda, as their minor league affiliate.

I don’t disagree. I’m stating that it’s unlikely MS has scouted this player and he is correct that he is a lost cause as a defensive prospect. And by unlikely I actually mean no f***ing chance. Our European scouts must feel he has a chance to round out his game. He is a raw 17 year old prospect. We usually don’t write off our prospects until they conclude their D+1. Progress HF boards

 

[MS]

I don’t disagree. I’m stating that it’s unlikely MS has scouted this player and he is correct that he is a lost cause as a defensive prospect. And by unlikely I actually mean no f***ing chance. Our European scouts must feel he has a chance to round out his game. He is a raw 17 year old prospect. We usually don’t write off our prospects until they conclude their D+1. Progress HF boards

Where did I say 'no f***ing chance'?

I personally rate hockey sense and IQ as the absolute most important thing for defenders, and when a guy doesn't have it at 18 ... it usually doesn't magically appear later. Maybe this will be an exception ... but I'm not going to be expecting it to happen.

And I'm not saying we SHOULD do this on Jurmo. I don't know enough about the player yet. But superficially, for a guy who can't play defense, doesn't really project as a point producer, and has a skillset that might project better at forward ... it's something that can be a bit of a discussion point, at least.

 

[MS]

I remember wanting to see Jordan Subban tried out as a winger lol

That would have been a great idea, and you can pretty much guarantee his career would have turned out better if it was tried. Probably doesn't make the NHL anyway, but he would at least have had a chance. The goals he scored were winger goals jumping into the play and he simply couldn't play defense at the pro level.

Teams are WAY too locked into positions on young players.

 

[RobertKron]

Exactly. When Jack Rathbone was the same age, he was playing high school hockey in New England. Prospects do actually show dramatic improve 'after' they're drafted.

I don't really see how this relates at all to Rathbone.

Rathbone was almost certainly playing prep hockey because he valued academics over a purely hockey-oriented path, not because he wasn't good enough to play junior. His priorities are also indicated by his going to Harvard. He did the usual high-end-highschool-player thing of playing a few USHL games when he was able, so it's not like he wasn't good enough for that league. He already had great skating and IQ, but his size was a question mark. If Rathbone had been Jurmo's 6'4", 200lbs at the time of the draft, and hadn't missed a month with a concussion, he'd probably have gone much, much higher.

Here's a pre-draft report on Rathbone:

Known for his swift skating style, Rathbone makes up for a lack of size with speed and defensive grit. He passes with precision and consistently pushes teammates in transition. Rathbone utilizes his mobility to elude fore-checkers and create offensive chances for himself and teammates. His patience for allowing plays to develop underscores his advanced hockey IQ.

https://thehockeywriters.com/jack-rathbone-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

 

[DonnyNucker]

Where did I say 'no f***ing chance'?

I personally rate hockey sense and IQ as the absolute most important thing for defenders, and when a guy doesn't have it at 18 ... it usually doesn't magically appear later. Maybe this will be an exception ... but I'm not going to be expecting it to happen.

And I'm not saying we SHOULD do this on Jurmo. I don't know enough about the player yet. But superficially, for a guy who can't play defense, doesn't really project as a point producer, and has a skillset that might project better at forward ... it's something that can be a bit of a discussion point, at least.

I meant no f***ing chance that you have been scouting Jurmo. It was a compliment, I assumed you have better things to do than watch a middling prospect. I’m not really arguing with anything you say other than it’s premature to consider a positional change. Harvey was over the moon about the kid falling to our pick. The org sees something in the kid. Hopefully they are right for a change

 

[MS]

I meant no f***ing chance that you have been scouting Jurmo. It was a compliment, I assumed you have better things to do than watch a middling prospect. I’m not really arguing with anything you say other than it’s premature to consider a positional change. Harvey was over the moon about the kid falling to our pick. The org sees something in the kid. Hopefully they are right for a change

Sorry, I mis-read your comment there.

Again, I'm not saying 'change him right now!'. I'm saying, based on history with players like this, it might be something to look at or have in the backs of our minds.

I think teams get too 'locked in' on players in certain positions and keep hammering square pegs into round holes rather than taking a step back and thinking about where a player's skills will play best. The insistence on Gaudette as a C is one of the more recent ones.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Sorry, I mis-read your comment there.

Again, I'm not saying 'change him right now!'. I'm saying, based on history with players like this, it might be something to look at or have in the backs of our minds.

I think teams get too 'locked in' on players in certain positions and keep hammering square pegs into round holes rather than taking a step back and thinking about where a player's skills will play best. The insistence on Gaudette as a C is one of the more recent ones.

I agree with Gaudette. Want to see the shift this year

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Was -2 with a shot in 10:43TOI today during JYP's 7-1 loss. 10:43 TOI is the 2nd highest he's played this season.

 

[VanJack]

Kind of disappointing that Jurmo has initially been left off the Finnish team for the upcoming WJHC in Alberta. But there's still time for him to turn his season and get an invite.

But scanning the rest of the Canuck prospect list; Podkolzin is an automatic as captain of the Russian team; and there a good chance the two-way game of Dmitri Zlodeyev will translate into a center spot on the team.

Meantime with the Swedish team, Arvid Costmar and Viktor Persson are in the running for spots in the tournament.

If it all comes to pass, you'd have to go back a long ways to find a tournament in which the Canucks had four prospects playing. And when you consider that three of these players were drafted in 6th-7th rounds, you have to be encouraged.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Jurmo played a season high 17:43 (3rd highest amongst the D) in JYP's 3-0 win this morning. He's seen his TOI slowly increase over the last few games, but this was a massive step up. Progress!