Do we have D depth? I'm not sure about that. I think we do have to look at things from the right side though. Assuming Schmidt is allowed to play the right side and Myers isn't lost to expansion, we just have Woo and Rafferty (neither of which may be ready for a full time spot). Ideally there's an upgrade to be had.
Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign D Travis Hamonic to 1-Year, $1.25M Deal with NMC
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Do we have D depth? I'm not sure about that. I think we do have to look at things from the right side though. Assuming Schmidt is allowed to play the right side and Myers isn't lost to expansion, we just have Woo and Rafferty (neither of which may be ready for a full time spot). Ideally there's an upgrade to be had.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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I wonder how their stats look in the last month.?...Its almost been like 2 different seasons..The first 15 games, they were a tire fire at every position.
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Well we actually have OJ, Rathbone and Tryamkin (all lefties I know) waiting in the wings (not to mention Rafferty and Chatfield - neither of whom I am overly optimistic about though).
That's more depth then we have had in ages.
Sure the goals against have gone down.....but not the high end scoring chances this teams bleeds very game or the amount of time they spend chasing in their own zone.
The only reason things are different in the last 15 games is the goaltending, pure and simple. You saw it tonight. With Holtby between the pipes they probably lose 6-2.
I know one thing. If Barry Trotz was coaching this team, some of these forwards and d-men would never get away with some of their awful puck management decisions.
Tryamkin is a right side D so if we sign him then it makes sense to let Hamonic walk. With that said, OJ and Rathbone are probably the two players with any sort of full-time Canucks potential.
VancouverJagger
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I have high hopes for Tryamkin. I think he can become a solid top 4-6 D. It would be a travesty if we flog him for a 5th rounder or something like that. Definitely worth a look.
I'm pretty confident that Woo will become a competent right-side D for us unless management gets stupid
and trades him for a quick fix on a bad contract.
I agree, but this is where we go back to the whole cap management problem. Tryamkin (or Hamonic) could help next year but, frankly, I can't imagine this defence without Edler, even with the fact he is LD. Ideally, we bring in a good RD AND bring back Edler but I don't think Frankie wants to engage in the buyouts required for that to happen. Of course, in a perfect world, we sign Dougie Hamilton. To do that, we would say goodbye to Edler, Hamonic and Tryamkin. Run something like this:
Hughes - Hamilton
Rathbone - Schmidt
Juolevi - Myers
Benn (resigned for one year at league minimum to be 7th Dman)
What happens to d-men when they sign up for the Canucks?
I mean Hamonic and Schmidt were pretty solid d-men in their previous organizations. But at times out there, they look like Gimpy trying to skate on a frozen bird bath. It was the same with guys like Gudbranson and Del Zotto. I know they were 'bad', but were they THAT bad? I mean both guys are still in the league.
I's guessing it has to be the Canucks defensive system, or lack of one. When the forwards aren't where they're supposed to be or somebody else blows an assignment, then the defensive mayhem begins.
The only guy who seems to be able to survive in this defensive quagmire is Edler.....and I guess it's because he's been doing it for so many years.
I mean Hamonic and Schmidt were pretty solid d-men in their previous organizations. But at times out there, they look like Gimpy trying to skate on a frozen bird bath. It was the same with guys like Gudbranson and Del Zotto. I know they were 'bad', but were they THAT bad? I mean both guys are still in the league.
I's guessing it has to be the Canucks defensive system, or lack of one. When the forwards aren't where they're supposed to be or somebody else blows an assignment, then the defensive mayhem begins.
The only guy who seems to be able to survive in this defensive quagmire is Edler.....and I guess it's because he's been doing it for so many years.
He's basically been what Benn was supposed to be - a decently reliable #5 who can chew through 18 minutes/game with some PK work. His first few games were rough after a year off but since his injury return he's been pretty decent.
At his salary, yes, he's been a good enough add. If we can bring him back for 1 year at $1.5 - 2 million, I'm fine with that. Absolutely should not be getting some sort of 3x3 extension or anything like that.
If he’s Hughes’ partner next season we’re in for another downer.
It’s interesting that Hamonic with Hughes is 4 goals for 6 against and Benn in similar minute totals is 13 goals for and 11 against.
Hamonic also has brutal numbers away from Hughes.
I think Demko is masking some issues. But if you’re bringing Hamonic back you’re right side is the exact same as this season. That’s absolutely a no go for me. That can’t happen.
This is pure luck. He's played more ES minutes with Hamonic than Benn and allowed basically half the goals, but his offensive numbers have dried up completely. And I don't think Jordie Benn was driving Quinn Hughes' ES production, especially relative to a guy who has been better offensively historically in Hamonic.
Optically Hughes has looked much better defensively to me in his games with Hamonic than his games with Benn, and the defensive numbers bear that out.
Hamonic has only played 35 minutes away from Hughes. Super small sample size there.
That's a fair point.
Although I feel like we're pretty locked in with Schmidt and Myers as the top 2 guys and maybe just looking to bridge a year until Woo can step in as a contributor?
I don't know that a major high-cost signing for the 3rd RD spot makes a ton of sense unless we can somehow move Myers, which is probably pretty unlikely.
Agreed. I remember that most Flames fans were content on re-signing him for $2-3M just not for $4M.
Reading through this thread cracks me up.
87% of 5 on 5 minutes spent with Hughes.
Anyone bothered to look up his PK stats? He’s by far the worst of the main 4 PKers.
16ga/60 on PK
Myers, Edler and Schmidt between 6-7ga/60 on PK.
It’s nice he’s limited Hughes goals against but he’s also incredibly hindered Hughes’ 5 on 5 offense.
I’ve seen suggestions to re-sign him for over $3m and that’s just ridiculous to me.
87% of 5 on 5 minutes spent with Hughes.
Anyone bothered to look up his PK stats? He’s by far the worst of the main 4 PKers.
16ga/60 on PK
Myers, Edler and Schmidt between 6-7ga/60 on PK.
It’s nice he’s limited Hughes goals against but he’s also incredibly hindered Hughes’ 5 on 5 offense.
I’ve seen suggestions to re-sign him for over $3m and that’s just ridiculous to me.
Do you actually think that Hamonic has incredibly hindered Hughes' 5-on-5 offense compared to ... noted offensive stud Jordie Benn, who was Hughes' other regular partner this year?
Or maybe Hughes was taking risks offensively to generate those points early on which is why he was bleeding goals to a larger extent away from Hamonic?
Or maybe Hughes was just on a hot streak with Benn?
Or maybe the Hughes-Benn pairing was used as a 3rd pairing at ES while Green trusts Hughes-Hamonic more and gives them higher-leverage minutes, which limits Hughes' offensive looks to some extent?
And the other thing I'd add with Hamonic's PK numbers is that he missed a long stretch when our top PK forwards (Motte/Beagle) were healthy, and then returned and those guys got hurt. His numbers have not been generated in an equal situation to the other defenders who have been healthy all year.
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Lets just agree Benning needs to stop f'n around and find a long term partner for him in roughly the same age bracket who is more stay at home and start developing them as a long term unit.
next year is another partner for Hughes
can't continue that trend.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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It has been hindered. Yes.
Hughes may be taking less chances. I miss those chances.
Hughes-Benn was a 3rd pair. Maybe it was a hot streak but now he’s on a cold streak.
I think everything you said is a contributing factor. I was just pointing out usage (krutov and I argued about the plan for his minutes pretty heavily and I think 87% together is funny) as well as the results. The pk results are bad and way out of whack with his teammates.
edit* What’s the makeup of the blueline if you bring him back and pay him $3m....same as this year but rathbone instead of edler? Yikes.
I’m not opposed to Hamonic at a marginal raise to $1.5m x 1 year, but something else big has to happen or it’s just more of the same.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Wouldnt we all..fact is, is that Hughes is a rover on the ice..He needs an experienced (usually means older) defender to have his back
Schenn, Tanev, Hamonic
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doesn’t necessarily have to mean older. They’re is younger guys on this league who are stay at home.
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The question isn't whether it's been hindered, it's why. And whether that is because of Hamonic in any direct way.
To start the season, Hughes was scoring a ton of points but also absolutely bleeding goals in his own end, generally with Benn. Generally in 3rd pairing usage at ES.
Since Hamonic has returned, Hughes' offensive numbers have cratered ... but his defensive results have vastly improved and he's played more/tougher minutes at ES.
Completely different situations.
I love numbers and stats and correlation vs. causation and sample size and all that jazz and this is why I hate just cherry-picking an NHL advanced stat number out of context and claiming that it means something. It might. Or it might not. In this case, those numbers have been generated in very different contexts and using them to single Hamonic out as a reason for Hughes' offensive decline is very dangerous. Especially when Hamonic is probably a better offensive player in a vacuum than Jordie Benn. There are multiple other potential (and more likely) reasons for why Hughes' numbers have dropped with Hamonic than just that 'Hamonic is tanking his numbers'. I think it's far more likely that Hughes' numbers have declined because the coaches have forced him to dial back the risk-taking after a terrible defensive start and focus more on defensive play than because Hamonic is somehow ruining his offensive game relative to Jordie Benn.
The other thing here is that Hughes is a young/fast/small player and starting a season after a long break with no training camp may have favoured this type of player offensively as slower/older players took longer to get up to speed.
See my other post about the PK numbers. We've seen this effect in the past when during stretches when Tanev was hurt. Is Hamonic struggling on the PK? Or is JT Miller just a far crappier PKer than Tyler Motte, and playing a higher percentage of minutes with Miller is tanking his numbers? I don't know. PK numbers can be freaking weird and highly variable for reasons that are difficult to pinpoint.
Agreed here. A Pearson-type extension for Hamonic would be idiotic. If you want to bring him back for $1.5 x 1, I have no problem with that. He's a solid enough #5 in the short term but this is not a player you invest in at age 31.
Wait, you don't mean to tell me that it might be the coach that sucks and not 25 players?
