News Article: Canucks Second Line Worries

[PM]

Are all of these types of articles written by Flames and Oilers fans or something? They are always so negative and never seem to actually know anything about our team.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If Burr bounces back like the poster below you said, then yeah, I could also see a scenario where we see Higgins on the 3rd instead of Burr.

I put that lineup together according to players playing in their more natural spots, aside from Burr who could essentially play either wing and fitting in the new guys(Bonino, Vey, Dorsett) as well, according to their natural playing positions and not upsetting or juggling the lineup too much.

The tough part is what to do with the bottom 6 if Burr actually has a top 6 worthy season again.

I think a part would have to be moved then.

The bolded bears repeating. Burrows was LW for his entire Canuck career until he was moved to play with the Sedins during the best line juggling spree of AV's coaching career. I seem to remember the narrative being that he had always been a lw (qhl, echl, ahl) until then.

I really don't think our rw/lw balance is any kind of significant problem. Daniel, Burrows/Higgins, as 1-3 lw's is only a problem if their production has fallen off to the point where we don't get legit scoring from any of those positions. If Higgins falls off and the downturn of Daniel and Burrows continues we're ****ed in a way that is positionally irrelevant.

I think not knowing what we have at the 2,3 Center spots is worthy of concern, and I agree with the posters here who have boiled that down to Bonino at the #2C (with an outside chance that Vey or Horvat could fill that roll). I'm not that worried about it....but only because we're not a contending team anyway. If none of Bonino, Vey or Horvat can be that guy then we have a problem, but it's a short term problem that isn't that hard to fill. There's lots of legit #2C's in the league, replacing Henrik long term is a different story.

 

[CherryToke]

the 2nd line has always been a concern since we didn't replace Demitra/Sundin/Samuelsson. no different than previous years. it's a giant black hole and will continue to be unless one of the young kids develops into a legit top 6 forward.

 

[Scurr]

IMO the more important question surrounding this team right now is;

Which centre is going to go up against Kopitar, Toews, Getzlaf, Thornton etc.? Who handles the tough defensive zone starts? Bonino can work just fine as a "#2" centre imo... provided they can find him the right match ups. If they expect Bonino to do it they had better give him Burrows and Hansen as wingers and start praying now.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

the 2nd line has always been a concern since we didn't replace Demitra/Sundin/Samuelsson. no different than previous years. it's a giant black hole and will continue to be unless one of the young kids develops into a legit top 6 forward.

I think you might be having a problem discerning the difference between "giant black hole" and league average. You do know that Demitra/Sundin/Samuelsson were never a line right??? Jesus, would that have been a defensive black hole!!!

 

[CherryToke]

I think you might be having a problem discerning the difference between "giant black hole" and league average. You do know that Demitra/Sundin/Samuelsson were never a line right??? Jesus, would that have been a defensive black hole!!!

it's a giant black hole if you want to compete in this division/conference.

and where did I say they were a line? they were all legit top 6 players for us.

Maybe Vrbata can make a difference if they swap him and burrows on/off the top line throughout the year like we did with Samuelsson back in the day. Burrows isn't the same player anymore though..

edit: I think you might be having a problem discerning the difference between / and -

 

[Dolemite]

He's done so much for this team for cheap, I don't see why you don't give him a little respect and start him in the top 6. It is possible to demote people to lower lines ...

Well the final say is up to the coach, of course. However, given his production last season, would you really give him a spot on the second line right off the bat?

Granted, if he earned it in training camp that's one thing but since they signed Vrbata they need to find players that will compliment him.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

If that 2nd line could click I wouldn't be so worried. We could start the 3rd/4th lines for every defensive zone draw of the season. Problem is that Vey can play C/RW and he is supposedly not very good on the wing at all. It was LA's centre depth that forced them to move him because they didn't want to push him on to the wing. So putting him on his off wing is setting him up to fail.

There's a very simple solution to the problems you've attributed to a Vey-Bonino-Kassian line.

Just play Vey at centre and move Bonino to LW.

Vey plays his natural position and stays where he's comfortable and been most successful. Bonino, on the other hand, was shifted back and forth last season between LW and C, depending on his line mates and game situations, and had success at both positions.

Bonino is just fine playing LW (and his charts from 2013-14 suggest he pretty much split his total minutes between centre and the left wing. Playing wing also allows him better shooting/finishing opportunities--which he's shown some aptitude at (see goals totals and power play numbers). Similarly, Vey can play more of a playmaker/distributor role from his natural centre position, where he's been most successful. And Kassian plays his natural position at RW.

Finally, with a LH option in Bonino and a RH option in Vey, you can have each player take their "strong side" draws. This should help the overall winning percentages and mitigate some of the overall team weakness in that area (especially after losing Kesler). Neither Vey nor Bonino have a FO% over 50%, so they could probably use any help they get.

Bonino-Vey-Kassian

Problem solved.

 

[hackey]

Second line worries?

What about 1st line worries
Henrik got 50 lousy points last year

Show proof that he's going to improve on that

 

[Dolemite]

Second line worries?

What about 1st line worries
Henrik got 50 lousy points last year

Show proof that he's going to improve on that

The Canucks need a second line (and more) to help take pressure off the top line so they can score.

Last season the book to beat the Canucks was this:

- Shut down the Sedin line
- Let lines 2-4 struggle to hit the broadside of a barn in the offensive zone.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

They need more scoring threats on lines two and three so that the Sedins can indeed go to work.

 

[wholesickcrew]

Second line worries?

What about 1st line worries
Henrik got 50 lousy points last year

Show proof that he's going to improve on that

40 points in 48 games before his rib injury. 10 points in his last 12 of the year (11.5 really, with an injury cutting one game short). I think it's fair to say that the longest drought in recent memory for Henrik (10 games) was largely because of injury.

 

[BassMason]

There's a very simple solution to the problems you've attributed to a Vey-Bonino-Kassian line.

Just play Vey at centre and move Bonino to LW.

Vey plays his natural position and stays where he's comfortable and been most successful. Bonino, on the other hand, was shifted back and forth last season between LW and C, depending on his line mates and game situations, and had success at both positions.

Bonino is just fine playing LW (and his charts from 2013-14 suggest he pretty much split his total minutes between centre and the left wing. Playing wing also allows him better shooting/finishing opportunities--which he's shown some aptitude at (see goals totals and power play numbers). Similarly, Vey can play more of a playmaker/distributor role from his natural centre position, where he's been most successful. And Kassian plays his natural position at RW.

Finally, with a LH option in Bonino and a RH option in Vey, you can have each player take their "strong side" draws. This should help the overall winning percentages and mitigate some of the overall team weakness in that area (especially after losing Kesler). Neither Vey nor Bonino have a FO% over 50%, so they could probably use any help they get.

Bonino-Vey-Kassian

Problem solved.

Wow, I like it! I really really like it. Allows them to stack the 3rd and 4th line with our two way forwards. This, I think, would allow the team to be put in the best situation to win games.

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Bonino Vey Kassian
Burrows Matthias Higgins - Matthias is here to defend against the bigger centres in the league.
Hansen Richardson Dorsett

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

2nd line worries? I'm much more concerned with 1st line worries considering the 1st line last year went 30 + games in a row without a goal...

 

[Bleach Clean]

IMO the more important question surrounding this team right now is;

Which centre is going to go up against Kopitar, Toews, Getzlaf, Thornton etc.? Who handles the tough defensive zone starts? Bonino can work just fine as a "#2" centre imo... provided they can find him the right match ups. If they expect Bonino to do it they had better give him Burrows and Hansen as wingers and start praying now.

Yup. That's the biggest outstanding issue. Who is the tough minute 3C to match-up to those guys?

I'm very curious as to how management will address this issue. Right now, the plan looks like Vey, but I don't think that is putting the kid into a position to succeed. They need someone else.

 

[VanJack]

Can't really understand all the hand-wringing about Ryan Kesler and secondary scoring....only had a paltry 18 assists and was a -15....in consecutive years before that he was coming off hip and shoulder surgery. My guess...he's gets hurt again in Anahim and they'll wish they had Bonino back

 

[Butcher]

Canucks Second Line Worries

The Canucks are relying on some longshots for secondary scoring in their top 6.

The Canucks second line is a bit of a mess right now offensively. As it sits the best guess from me is a Higgins-Bonino-Burrows line. Bonino is a lock at 2C, Benning made sure that he was in the deal with Anaheim so that he had a replacement for the departing Ryan Kesler.

READ MORE...
http://www.hometownhockey.ca/hockey/HH0600.php

I'm not sure how you can write an article outlining that the Canucks need a second line right winger who is not Burrows and list the only in house options as Jensen, Shinkaruk, Horvat and Virtanen. I was under the impression most expect Kassian to start there. That is what I expect anyway.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Higgins was the 24th highest (iirc) scoring LW in the league at ES.

Santo's pro rated ES production was 43 points.

I'll be ecstatic if they can replicated last year's 2nd line at ES.

that's great and all but being a top 6 guy also usually mean performing on the PP, which like most Canucks, Higgins didn't do well in last year.

Pro rating and looking at just part of the picture (ES) is only so good the whole picture is more telling and our 2nd line doesn't look all that great going into the season.

Ironically Kesler almost doubled the next best PPG guy on our team in Daniel.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I'm more worried about the makeup of our 3rd line than our 2nd line.

Bonino had his baptism of fire last season & handled it well. We've got a guy currently penciled in the #3C spot with just a "cup of coffee" in the big show so far.

If By "baptism of fire" you mean playing hella easy minutes behind the western conferences best center, then I agree.

 

[F A N]

Ya this is a pretty terrible article. It starts off saying that the 2nd line is a bit of a mess then goes on to say that Bonino and Burrows are locks for the 2nd line then talks about Burrows needing to be replaced? Need a lesson in writing.

And no mention of Kassian. Nobody should bother with that link.

 

[Shane]

Yup. That's the biggest outstanding issue. Who is the tough minute 3C to match-up to those guys?

I'm very curious as to how management will address this issue. Right now, the plan looks like Vey, but I don't think that is putting the kid into a position to succeed. They need someone else.

I've got a feeling Horvat is gonna get a real serious look for that spot. Dude looks like a linebacker in the development camp photos. He's got the size and defensive awareness to excel in that role. Give him a couple of responsible, veteran wingers to help him out (Higgins and Burrows oughta suit), and I think he'll do pretty well.

Daniel-Henrik-Vrbata
Bonino-Vey-Kassian (I like Iceberg Slim's reasoning here)
Higgins-Horvat-Burrows
Matthias-Richardson-Hansen

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

what second line?

 

[David Bruce Banner]

If Jensen makes the team it will probably be on the 2nd line.

Jensen - Bonino - Kassian could work.

 

[bo2shink*]

Second line worries?

What about 1st line worries
Henrik got 50 lousy points last year

Show proof that he's going to improve on that

I do not think there is any proof that is going to make you feel any better.

 

[bo2shink*]

Ya this is a pretty terrible article. It starts off saying that the 2nd line is a bit of a mess then goes on to say that Bonino and Burrows are locks for the 2nd line then talks about Burrows needing to be replaced? Need a lesson in writing.

And no mention of Kassian. Nobody should bother with that link.

I think the entire hockey world knows how easy it is to rile up the chicken littlest fans in the NHL.

 

[me2]

that's great and all but being a top 6 guy also usually mean performing on the PP, which like most Canucks, Higgins didn't do well in last year.

Pro rating and looking at just part of the picture (ES) is only so good the whole picture is more telling and our 2nd line doesn't look all that great going into the season.

Ironically Kesler almost doubled the next best PPG guy on our team in Daniel.

There in lies the problem. People are focusing on last year's scoring problems and blaming depth. Higgins and Santo performed as above average 2nd liners at ES. Overall the depth did fine (except for Hansen's down year).

The team was 17 goals from being a top 10 ES team, so what went wrong?

Burrows: 8 ES points in 49 games. Previous year 21 in 47, year before 43 in 80. Burrows prime is grossly underrated by Nucks fans because his point totals don't look elite, "Oh the Sedins never had a real winger", Burrows put up high end ES numbers while playing elite defense, the PP time the gave to Kesler. They had a quality winger in the form of Burrows ES + Kesler PP .

Sedins: like/because of Burrows and Daniel being off they dropped off. Hopefully Vrbata is able to replicate the success ES Burrows+ PP Kesler had on their wing and revitalise the first line.

The 17 goals this team is missing at ES (139 Van tied 21st, 156 for 10th Wpeg) are missing not from the depth but from the 1st line.

Lines are really more about ES to me, people might be better switching to the mind set of lines are ES and PP units are different thing. Which brings us to the PP which was bad, even the Sedins were off a tad (5-10 points). None of Higgins, Hansen, Burrows or Santorelli have established themselves as PP forces, still good ES players though and there is now enough depth to cover the PP. Vey and Bonino have to shine here or the team is sunk, it is a big part of why they were brought in - to provide a workable 2nd PP unit.

Finally we have the D. The guys will need to step up and replace Garrison's points.

TLDR:
* 1st line is killing us at ES more than the depth
* 1st and 2nd units are killing us on the PP.
* D might be even more poorly configured than last year.