Confirmed with Link: Canucks release or re-assign 6 scouting staff members MOD WARNING #466

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm not sure when but it came out of his ass. That's just excuse #1245432 by benning lovers trying to come up with a reason for his incompetence for making a terrible draft pick.

There is 0 evidence that ownership overruled or made the decision on behalf of benning regarding the #6 pick.

The only reason this ownership bs started getting popularity is virtanen has developed terribly. There's no chance in hell anyone is saying ownership made the pick if virtanen actually developed well and scored 25 goals in the NHL last year.

Ownership meddling rumors existed pre-Benning and will continue to exist post-Benning.

Gillis all but confirmed them immediately prior to his dismissal. The same GM who had stated a preference for cerebral/high IQ players upon his arrival and made a bizarre switch to pursuing big bodies after the 2011 Cup Final loss. At bare minimum they're known to have had a hand in directing the Tortorella hire.

Whatever "Benning lovers" are even left certainly don't post here. At best you'll find a small handful of "Benning objectivists" who take moderate stances. And then a whole lot of "anti" idiots who think every form of criticism or analysis not directly laid at Benning's feet alone is an "excuse" meant to vindicate the man.

Here's a fun fact. These two things can be true at the same time.

1. Ownership are meddlers.
2. Benning is not a good GM.

In fact, a meddling/incompetent ownership will like result in poor hiring choices. 1 makes 2 MORE likely.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Ownership meddling rumors existed pre-Benning and will continue to exist post-Benning.

Gillis all but confirmed them immediately prior to his dismissal. The same GM who had stated a preference for cerebral/high IQ players upon his arrival and made a bizarre switch to pursuing big bodies after the 2011 Cup Final loss. At bare minimum they're known to have had a hand in directing the Tortorella hire.

Whatever "Benning lovers" are even left certainly don't post here. At best you'll find a small handful of "Benning objectivists" who take moderate stances. And then a whole lot of "anti" idiots who think every form of criticism or analysis not directly laid at Benning's feet alone is an "excuse" meant to vindicate the man.

Here's a fun fact. These two things can be true at the same time.

1. Ownership are meddlers.
2. Benning is not a good GM.

In fact, a meddling/incompetent ownership will like result in poor hiring choices. 1 makes 2 MORE likely.

Yes it can be true. Simply put, ownership demanded playoffs and Benning targeted the wrong guys in trades and free agent signings to make that push for playoffs. And this was exactly how it went in the past seasons. If you cannot recognize that, you are simply ignoring the blatant reality in front of your eyes.

Nope, we are not idiots for pointing out the obvious: Benning is a bad GM.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Nope, we are not idiots for pointing out the obvious: Benning is a bad GM.

Pretty sure everyone on here is well aware, some just like to rile jimmies or try to convince themselves (and/or others) that down is up.

 

[F A N]

Yes it can be true. Simply put, ownership demanded playoffs and Benning targeted the wrong guys in trades and free agent signings to make that push for playoffs. And this was exactly how it went in the past seasons. If you cannot recognize that, you are simply ignoring the blatant reality in front of your eyes.

I read this a lot. That Benning "targeted the wrong players." I think it's a reasonable argument to make given how things turned out. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that he "targeted the wrong guys in trades and free agent signings to make that push for playoffs."

In terms of trades, outside of the Bonino and Kassian trades, which trades were meant to help the team push for the playoffs vs trying to speed up the rebuild / integration of youth into the lineup?

In terms of free agent signings (non ELC signings), they were pretty much all for the purpose of helping the team make the playoffs. Did they target the wrong players? Miller and Vrbata played a huge role in the Canucks making the playoffs in Benning's first year here and it's reasonable to conclude that Miller helped the Canucks win more games than they otherwise would. As for last summer, Eriksson was a disaster, but I don't think anybody would have described Eriksson or Lucic as wrong targets for a team looking to make the playoffs.

 

[Verviticus]

yes of course they were the wrong targets, because they were massively overpriced ****** contracts

 

[me2]

I read this a lot. That Benning "targeted the wrong players." I think it's a reasonable argument to make given how things turned out. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that he "targeted the wrong guys in trades and free agent signings to make that push for playoffs."

In terms of trades, outside of the Bonino and Kassian trades, which trades were meant to help the team push for the playoffs vs trying to speed up the rebuild / integration of youth into the lineup?

In terms of free agent signings (non ELC signings), they were pretty much all for the purpose of helping the team make the playoffs. Did they target the wrong players? Miller and Vrbata played a huge role in the Canucks making the playoffs in Benning's first year here and it's reasonable to conclude that Miller helped the Canucks win more games than they otherwise would. As for last summer, Eriksson was a disaster, but I don't think anybody would have described Eriksson or Lucic as wrong targets for a team looking to make the playoffs.

I can't believe anyone would defend Boeser (1st) + Markstrom + top prospect for 1 year of Lucic for a team needing to rebuild but there it is.

 

[Krnuckfan]

Ownership meddling rumors existed pre-Benning and will continue to exist post-Benning.

Gillis all but confirmed them immediately prior to his dismissal. The same GM who had stated a preference for cerebral/high IQ players upon his arrival and made a bizarre switch to pursuing big bodies after the 2011 Cup Final loss. At bare minimum they're known to have had a hand in directing the Tortorella hire.

Whatever "Benning lovers" are even left certainly don't post here. At best you'll find a small handful of "Benning objectivists" who take moderate stances. And then a whole lot of "anti" idiots who think every form of criticism or analysis not directly laid at Benning's feet alone is an "excuse" meant to vindicate the man.

Here's a fun fact. These two things can be true at the same time.

1. Ownership are meddlers.
2. Benning is not a good GM.

In fact, a meddling/incompetent ownership will like result in poor hiring choices. 1 makes 2 MORE likely.

There's been rumblings about what ownership wanted with the team in the big picture. Which is try and remain competitive and make the playoffs.

Things like Gillis's interview on 1040 point to that.

There is no evidence that aquilini tried to micromanage on hockey decisions and told benning to pick virtanen. The virtanen pick is all on benning and ownership wanting to make the playoffs doesn't absolve the blame at all.

 

[DanCloutiersFiveHole]

I read this a lot. That Benning "targeted the wrong players." I think it's a reasonable argument to make given how things turned out. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that he "targeted the wrong guys in trades and free agent signings to make that push for playoffs."

In terms of trades, outside of the Bonino and Kassian trades, which trades were meant to help the team push for the playoffs vs trying to speed up the rebuild / integration of youth into the lineup?

In terms of free agent signings (non ELC signings), they were pretty much all for the purpose of helping the team make the playoffs. Did they target the wrong players? Miller and Vrbata played a huge role in the Canucks making the playoffs in Benning's first year here and it's reasonable to conclude that Miller helped the Canucks win more games than they otherwise would. As for last summer, Eriksson was a disaster, but I don't think anybody would have described Eriksson or Lucic as wrong targets for a team looking to make the playoffs.

Kesler trade, Dorsett trade, Gudbranson trade, Larsen trade, Etem trade, Forsling trade, Vey trade, Baertschi trade, Granlund trade
All trades made where pure futures ie. picks or prospects were not the focal point of the return

 

[sting101]

No the ownership rumours were there all along, but this shouldn't absolve Benning who seemed to agree and go along with it when the direction our scouts were going under Gillis was pointing to Nylander or Ehlers. I hate re-iterating it a thousand times, but its very likely had ownership not stepped in at the deadline then fired Gillis shortly after, but rather left him in place and gave him another year, we would have come out of that draft with Ehlers or Nylander and Larkin (OTT 1st).

You can never say 100% for sure of course but that seemed like the likeliest scenario.

This is just it and if anyone thinks i'm spewing stuff out of my a** feel free to PM me and i will divulge my source and what transpired.

 

[F A N]

I can't believe anyone would defend Boeser (1st) + Markstrom + top prospect for 1 year of Lucic for a team needing to rebuild but there it is.

Source?

 

[F A N]

Kesler trade, Dorsett trade, Gudbranson trade, Larsen trade, Etem trade, Forsling trade, Vey trade, Baertschi trade, Granlund trade
All trades made where pure futures ie. picks or prospects were not the focal point of the return

But how many of those deals were deals to push for the playoffs rather than to integrate youth into the lineup? Kesler and Dorsett trade had that push for the playoffs component and they made the playoffs the season after the trades were made.

The team's goal was to integrate youth into the lineup while trying to make the playoffs. This dual goal was not a secret or fake plan and it was heavily criticized by many as not feasible.

Just because the team is not close to being a contender doesn't mean that every trade you make is for pure futures. One of Gillis' first moves as GM was to sign UFAs like Ryan Johnson, Hordichuk, Sundin, while trading for Bernier and offer sheeting Backes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to improve your team, especially when those players are young enough to be contributor 2-3 years down the line.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

There's been rumblings about what ownership wanted with the team in the big picture. Which is try and remain competitive and make the playoffs.

Things like Gillis's interview on 1040 point to that.

There is no evidence that aquilini tried to micromanage on hockey decisions and told benning to pick virtanen. The virtanen pick is all on benning and ownership wanting to make the playoffs doesn't absolve the blame at all.

I have said this before but I think it is true that ownership/Linden wanted Virtanen, but I think it is just as true that they hired Benning in part because he was the kind of guy who would draft Virtanen. It would not even be all that surprising if they talked about the upcoming draft as part of the interview.

They hired Benning because his vision and style aligned with theirs. That is the only reason you would hire somebody.

 

[F A N]

I have said this before but I think it is true that ownership/Linden wanted Virtanen, but I think it is just as true that they hired Benning in part because he was the kind of guy who would draft Virtanen. It would not even be all that surprising if they talked about the upcoming draft as part of the interview.

They hired Benning because his vision and style aligned with theirs. That is the only reason you would hire somebody.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, but I don't really see Linden as a vision guy. I mean he probably got a call one day from Aquilini and was offered the job. As far as I know, Linden had been enjoying retirement and preoccupied with his business interests. He wasn't really paying much attention to the NHL. Coincidentally, Linden has been on record as saying that Benning supplies the blue print.

With that said, I do think Aquilini and Linden were looking for a guy who thinks he can rebuild the team while making the playoffs. They obviously didn't hire a guy to clean house as Edler quickly got a vote of confidence from Linden. And ya I can see that generally Linden would hire a guy that aligns with his own ideas of how hockey should be played and the type of players you want on the team.

 

[Hit the post]

They obviously didn't hire a guy to clean house as Edler quickly got a vote of confidence from Linden.

Given Edler's extreme reluctance to waive his NTC (at least I think that was the case), I'm not sure Linden (or Benning) had much choice in the matter. At least not getting anywhere near market value for him.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

There's been rumblings about what ownership wanted with the team in the big picture. Which is try and remain competitive and make the playoffs.

Things like Gillis's interview on 1040 point to that.

There is no evidence that aquilini tried to micromanage on hockey decisions and told benning to pick virtanen. The virtanen pick is all on benning and ownership wanting to make the playoffs doesn't absolve the blame at all.

This is bizarrely specific.

Made more so by the fact I didn't say anything about Virtanen at all, nor did I attempt to "absolve" Benning of anything.

Indeed I went out of my way to mock the false dilemma between ownership being meddlesome and Benning being a bad GM. I'm not sure what people are finding so challenging about the notion that 2+2=4 and 3+3=6 can both be facts at the same time, but here we are.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

But how many of those deals were deals to push for the playoffs rather than to integrate youth into the lineup? Kesler and Dorsett trade had that push for the playoffs component and they made the playoffs the season after the trades were made.

The team's goal was to integrate youth into the lineup while trying to make the playoffs. This dual goal was not a secret or fake plan and it was heavily criticized by many as not feasible.

Just because the team is not close to being a contender doesn't mean that every trade you make is for pure futures. One of Gillis' first moves as GM was to sign UFAs like Ryan Johnson, Hordichuk, Sundin, while trading for Bernier and offer sheeting Backes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to improve your team, especially when those players are young enough to be contributor 2-3 years down the line.

There's a twitter account named LindenningQuote which can answer that. The answer is greater than 3. Go check it out.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Given Edler's extreme reluctance to waive his NTC (at least I think that was the case), I'm not sure Linden (or Benning) had much choice in the matter. At least not getting anywhere near market value for him.

Pretty much. We can't force Edler to waive and hasn't it been stated he's been asked at least twice?

 

[F A N]

Given Edler's extreme reluctance to waive his NTC (at least I think that was the case), I'm not sure Linden (or Benning) had much choice in the matter. At least not getting anywhere near market value for him.

Pretty much. We can't force Edler to waive and hasn't it been stated he's been asked at least twice?

Has Edler been asked to waive his no trade clause? I don't think he has. There were rumors at the 2014 draft that they had asked Burrows but he refused to waive.

I think in summer 2014, the idea of trading Edler was predicated more on dumping his contract than getting market value for him. I don't even know if Linden listened to too many trade offers before declaring they had no intention of trading Edler.

 

[me2]

But how many of those deals were deals to push for the playoffs rather than to integrate youth into the lineup? Kesler and Dorsett trade had that push for the playoffs component and they made the playoffs the season after the trades were made.

The team's goal was to integrate youth into the lineup while trying to make the playoffs. This dual goal was not a secret or fake plan and it was heavily criticized by many as not feasible.

Just because the team is not close to being a contender doesn't mean that every trade you make is for pure futures. One of Gillis' first moves as GM was to sign UFAs like Ryan Johnson, Hordichuk, Sundin, while trading for Bernier and offer sheeting Backes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to improve your team, especially when those players are young enough to be contributor 2-3 years down the line.

There is nothing wrong with selling futures on a team about to tank.....

 

[Hit the post]

Has Edler been asked to waive his no trade clause? I don't think he has.

I wasn't sure (hence my "qualified" statement). In any event, Gillis was the one that missed the chance to deal him before his NTC came into effect.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

They hired Benning because his vision and style aligned with theirs. That is the only reason you would hire somebody.

Something a lot of folks don't understand and is why I hate the "ownership isn't letting Benning do his job/Benning wanted to tank but ownership wouldn't let him" arguments that get tossed around on other areas of the Internet.

Benning is either stupid for signing up for something he doesn't believe in or just bad at his job for not delivering what he "sold" in his interview.

Benning didn't get the gig and then get blindsided by ownership demands. Many of his moves were bad from day one and it is on him.

 

[F A N]

There is nothing wrong with selling futures on a team about to tank.....

You must be kidding me. You sell veterans for futures not sell futures if your team is about to tank.

 

[me2]

You must be kidding me. You sell veterans for futures not sell futures if your team is about to tank.

Jim's trading history says you are wrong.

 

[F A N]

Jim's trading history says you are wrong.

And you think there is nothing wrong with that so good for you for supporting Benning there

 

[orcatown]

"If you watch the NHL playoffs, you need size and strength to get to the net, stay in front of the net, to deflect pucks, to get rebounds," Benning said. "We were looking for that style of players and we were happy who we ended up with.

"Jake's a powerful skater. He's got a good release on his shot. But he plays a rugged-style game. Because of his speed, he can get in on the forecheck. He finishes his checks and he recovers pucks and he takes pucks to the net. He's a power forward. And besides that, he's a local boy, so it just worked out perfect that way."

So every thing worked out perfect!

-from Bennng interview at the time of the draft.

Either Benning is too dumb to do the right thing (likely) or he is to cowardly to do the right thing (also likely)