Confirmed with Link: Canucks place Jake Virtanen on unconditional waivers for buyout purposes

[Bubbles]

His shot at 17 was lethal. It never looked remotely the same again.

Physically he had moments but as @F A N mentioned above there were multiple times where he seemed to re-injure it and just got more and more tentative physically.

He probably would still have been a bad pick at #6, but that injury really derailed him and drafting him knowing it was a potential problem was incredibly stupid.

No, I disagree. All the skills that he had when he was drafted he still had. It was just that he never figured out WHEN to use each skill. The few times when he did shoot it at the right time, it was an absolute bomb. But he never used it often enough.

He was one of the fastest skaters on the team, but only used it wrong situations, like rushing one side and trying to beat the defender wide.

He was one of the most physical players on the team, but again, never used it properly. When a huge hit could uplift a team, Jake would trip a guy and get a penalty.

It was always IQ with him. All tools, no toolbox.

 

[VanillaCoke]

It was obvious to avg joe scout before during and afterwards that Nylander and ehlers were better players.
It should've been obvious to professionals, but nah big fast and rips the puck, good old local boy too!
Ridiculous.

 

[Blackjackz]

To believe that a comprehensive interview process could have enabled the Canucks the ability to forecast whether or not JV would have been accused of sexual assault is totally absurd.

But that is not to suggest that the Canucks and many other teams have fallen short in general when it comes to utilizing the interview process as a means to weed out potential draft follies. It is correct to suggest that interviews have lacked substance due to players relying upon canned or rehearsed responses as a means to maximize their value at the draft. But there are numerous interview strategies that would help teams make a more long-term decision, this is common place in the corporate world. Sure, people learn how to game the system, but overall behavioural and situational interviews have come a long way in recent years. It would appear that hockey is simply either not interested, or lacks the commitment to employ such strategies.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It was obvious to avg joe scout before during and afterwards that Nylander and ehlers were better players.
It should've been obvious to professionals, but nah big fast and rips the puck, good old local boy too!
Ridiculous.

Wasn't obvious at all..At the 2014 draft,.the Leafs table took a long deliberation at their draft table as to whether to draft Nylander or Nick Ritchie ..fortunately for them, Nylander was the right pick (he could only play at one end of the ice back then)..If Virtanen was still available at #9, my bet is on the Leafs running to the podium to take him.

Two years later, Alex Nylander was rated even higher than his brother was...What happened there..?

It wasn't obvious at all.....(and in saying that, Nylander was my pick for the 2014 draft)

 

[DFAC]

It was obvious to avg joe scout before during and afterwards that Nylander and ehlers were better players.
It should've been obvious to professionals, but nah big fast and rips the puck, good old local boy too!
Ridiculous.

Teams never learn, just look at Ottawa and drafting Boucher this year ahead of guys like Sillinger and Coronato.

 

[strattonius]

It was obvious to avg joe scout before during and afterwards that Nylander and ehlers were better players.
It should've been obvious to professionals, but nah big fast and rips the puck, good old local boy too!
Ridiculous.

He was a lock to be grabbed in the top 10. I agree that he was the wrong pick at the time, even with my captain hindsight pants on; but this notion that ALL the scouts had it wrong on Jake is a joke. Like I said, if we didn't take Virtanen there would be some other GM that grabbed the lemon soon enough. The skill was evident he just never put it together - something that is impossible to predict.

 

[StreetHawk]

To believe that a comprehensive interview process could have enabled the Canucks the ability to forecast whether or not JV would have been accused of sexual assault is totally absurd.

But that is not to suggest that the Canucks and many other teams have fallen short in general when it comes to utilizing the interview process as a means to weed out potential draft follies. It is correct to suggest that interviews have lacked substance due to players relying upon canned or rehearsed responses as a means to maximize their value at the draft. But there are numerous interview strategies that would help teams make a more long-term decision, this is common place in the corporate world. Sure, people learn how to game the system, but overall behavioural and situational interviews have come a long way in recent years. It would appear that hockey is simply either not interested, or lacks the commitment to employ such strategies.

Wasn’t the interview process pre Covid held during the scouting combine and limited to like 20 minutes or something? That’s not a lot of time to conduct an extensive interview.
If they get an hour or more with the kid then I would agree.

 

[bossram]

But what was his play style? You said: "In Junior, essentially all his scoring was a variation of skating down the wing and burning some 16-year-old defenseman or taking a shot from the circles. Against teenagers, you can play this way. Against NHLers, you can't."

In the clips, he clearly can. Even his first NHL goal where he chipped the puck up forward and blew by the guy defending him and got to the net:



Obviously, unless you're Ovechkin, you can't score 30+ goals one way. And Virtanen did score off on one timers, off his quick releases, due being available for open feeds, from forechecking, and goals resulting from him being near the front of the net.

The fact of the matter is that when Virtanen was at his best he was capable of making an impact physically and he was seemingly good for one breakaway a game. When given some time and space he was able to pick corners. He's not a high end offensive player because of his work rate, flaws in his game, and other reasons. It wasn't because of his play style. He can certainly play his style of game and succeed if he had say Tyler Motte's motor and good health.

Any NHL player, if given enough runway, will score a few goals in a few different ways. Every player in the NHL is talented enough to pull something off occasionally.

I said in my last post my statement was hyperbolic. Yes, you can score some goals this way. It's not impossible against NHLers. But you can't be a high-end offensive player with Jake's playstyle.

It's pretty clear the kinds of chances Virtanen creates are created primarily one way. If you want to be a high-end NHLer, you can't be so offensively limited because you will not be able to create enough chances just "skating down the wing". An offensive player needs to be able to change the pace, problem-solve, find space in the offensive zone, have some minimum level of playmaking, attack the interior from off the walls, and do it all consistently enough. Jake never did, and the problem was in between his ears.

This "he got a breakaway every game" is very strange, because that is also just not true. If it were true, it's also indicative of not playing a great game either, because it means he's just blowing the zone and cheating all the time.

 

[KingofSurrey]

Jake needs to start taking Russian language lessons....

Here is the first russian phrase he will likely be using frequently...

Can I have the fries upsized ?
можно мне картофель побольше?
mozhno mne kartofel' pobol'she?

 

[Rick Rocket]

Wasn't obvious at all..At the 2014 draft,.the Leafs table took a long deliberation at their draft table as to whether to draft Nylander or Nick Ritchie ..fortunately for them, Nylander was the right pick (he could only play at one end of the ice back then)..If Virtanen was still available at #9, my bet is on the Leafs running to the podium to take him.

Two years later, Alex Nylander was rated even higher than his brother was...What happened there..?

It wasn't obvious at all.....(and in saying that, Nylander was my pick for the 2014 draft)

To the vast majority, it was crystal clear. I don't understand any of your examples.

 

[M2Beezy]

To the vast majority, it was crystal clear. I don't understand any of your examples.

He defends the GM or minimizes his mistakes. Its all he can post about

 

[F A N]

Any NHL player, if given enough runway, will score a few goals in a few different ways. Every player in the NHL is talented enough to pull something off occasionally.

I said in my last post my statement was hyperbolic. Yes, you can score some goals this way. It's not impossible against NHLers. But you can't be a high-end offensive player with Jake's playstyle.

It's pretty clear the kinds of chances Virtanen creates are created primarily one way. If you want to be a high-end NHLer, you can't be so offensively limited because you will not be able to create enough chances just "skating down the wing". An offensive player needs to be able to change the pace, problem-solve, find space in the offensive zone, have some minimum level of playmaking, attack the interior from off the walls, and do it all consistently enough. Jake never did, and the problem was in between his ears.

This "he got a breakaway every game" is very strange, because that is also just not true. If it were true, it's also indicative of not playing a great game either, because it means he's just blowing the zone and cheating all the time.

I get what you're saying and I think we just have to agree or disagree here. I think you're mischaracterizing Jake's play style in Juniors. He didn't just "skate down the wing" or play like Brandon Sutter. Go look at the goals he scored in juniors. So no, I don't believe Jake's play style prevents him from being a high end goal scorer at all. I also think your focus on shooting percentage is misplaced. If you look at Jake's shot chart in 19-20 vs 18-20, it's clear that a greater percentage of shots came from the "dirty areas."

A lot of the stuff you wrote above has nothing to do with play style. If you're saying his weaknesses prevented him from becoming a high end scorer I can agree, but not because his play style didn't translate.

 

[KingofSurrey]

 

[VanJack]

Given some of the stiffs who've been getting UFA deals in the NHL these days, it's pretty hard to understand why somebody around the league haven't taken a flyer on Virtanen for at least a one-year deal.

Seems obvious his legal troubles have landed him on some sort of NHL 'no-go' zone. So the KHL might be his only option. Hard to know if he can play his way back to NA. But that's just where he's at right now.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

To the vast majority, it was crystal clear. I don't understand any of your examples.

From what I recall, there was a split between folks who wanted Jake, and the other half who wanted Nylander/Ehlers...I wanted Nylander as well, but wasn't overly disappointed in JV...The Canucks had been drafting a lot of soft skill forwards before then (Schroeder, Shinkaruk, Hodgson), and teams like LAK were running roughshod over the Canucks..

...and like I said, Nylander at the time was a skilled skinny one dimensional player, who had question marks..His younger brother was rated higher than he was...How did that go?

Currently, it looks like 3 out of the first 7 players taken in the 2014 draft are busting.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Given some of the stiffs who've been getting UFA deals in the NHL these days, it's pretty hard to understand why somebody around the league haven't taken a flyer on Virtanen for at least a one-year deal.

Seems obvious his legal troubles have landed him on some sort of NHL 'no-go' zone. So the KHL might be his only option. Hard to know if he can play his way back to NA. But that's just where he's at right now.

They will..if his legal issues blow over...Given his age, speed, size..somebody will bite.

 

[tantalum]

They will..if his legal issues blow over...Given his age, speed, size..somebody will bite.

They likely don't blow over before the season so you are looking at next year...interest will depend on his KHL performance. Much harder to get back to the NHL once you've left it if you aren't a top player in a euro league.

If I had to choose...I think his NHL career is over.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

They likely don't blow over before the season so you are looking at next year...interest will depend on his KHL performance. Much harder to get back to the NHL once you've left it if you aren't a top player in a euro league.

If I had to choose...I think his NHL career is over.

Agreed that he's likely looking at multiple years out of the NHL...and a lot depends on his performance overseas ..Its his last shot, if that doesnt light a fire under his ass, nothing will.

If a GM is willing to take on Zack Kassian (who was a full fledged alcoholic at the time), I'm sure there will be someone who will take a flyer on JV (if he's not convicted).

 

[MarkMM]

Agreed that he's likely looking at multiple years out of the NHL...and a lot depends on his performance overseas ..Its his last shot, if that doesnt light a fire under his ass, nothing will.

If a GM is willing to take on Zack Kassian (who was a full fledged alcoholic at the time), I'm sure there will be someone who will take a flyer on JV (if he's not convicted).

Yeah, that's the million dollar question to me. My feeling is that alcoholism is increasingly being looked at as an addiction health issue that can be worked through and teams get credit for helping a player through that, whereas sexual assault is just a straight dead end. If he's convicted, it's over over. If he's acquitted conclusively, then the doorway opens.

But what if it's something that's a grey area? Like the accuser(s) maintain their accusations but maybe there isn't enough evidence to bring it to trial, there's enough daylight from being guilty and the authorities being able to prove it that I could see a situation where the cloud doesn't go away but isn't resolved (not to spark a debate on this but think of the OJ acquittal and how it was believed by many that he did it). Would a team touch JV in that circumstance? My guess would be no but stranger things have happened.