Waived: Canucks place F Sven Baertschi on waivers (Dec 15)

[NoShowWilly]

I wonder how much the canucks can even afford to retain past the relief they are currently given by sven being in the minors.

 

[Peter10]

I wonder how much the canucks can even afford to retain past the relief they are currently given by sven being in the minors.

Retaining doesnt make much sense. For any team to trade for him they would likely have to retain the max salary, yet considering the 975k (or whatever it is) relief they get for hiding him in the minors, the Canucks would only save about 700k in cap space.

 

[xtra]

Baertschi had major concussion issues prior to the trade. He was concussed badly at the WJC in 2011. Then, while playing for the Abbotsford farm team of the Flames in 2012, he was knocked out of action for a large part of the season by a very bad concussion. Came back and was not close to being the same player. In Calgary there were reports of issues related to head injury.

Baertschi was damaged goods and one of the major reason he got moved.

There is always hope that a player can recover but taking Baertschi was just one more gamble by Benning and a very poor one.

thank you for that. I didn’t know he had such issues prior to acquiring him. I’ll have to reasses my opinion on the trade but I think the potential talent ability of Sven still makes it a reasonable get; though with this new info the price might be too high

 

[VanillaCoke]

Yep...you nailed it.....and that was first of many fumbles by Benning, trading picks for other team's failed prospects.Who remembers a second-rounder for Linden Vey; a fourth rounder for Derrick Pouliot; a third rounder for Andrey Pedan; a high second and a fourth rounder for Gudbranson; a second rounder for Sutter; a fifth rounder for Philip Larsen; a seventh rounder for Marek Mazenek; and finally a first rounder and a third rounder for J.T. Miller. And I'm sure there are others I can't remember.

Obviously not all of these picks would have worked out.......but with the exception of Miller and a chronically injured Sutter, where are all the other guys now that Jimbo that coughed up draft picks for?

At what point does it ever sink in.....a rebuilding team just can't trade draft picks for fading prospects...period.

I definitely don't have the time or energy but it'd be interesting to see the list of players those picks became

 

[NoShowWilly]

2nd for Vey became Roland Mckeown
3rd for Dorsett became Keegan Iverson
2nd for Baertschi became Rasmus Andersson
3rd for Andrey Pedan we got back in Sutter trade
5th for Prust became Nolan Stevens
2nd for Sutter became Filip Gustavsson
2nd for Gudbranson became Rasmus Asplund
4th for Gudbrason became Johnathan Ang
6th for Etem became Dominic Lakatos
4th for Pouliot became Slava Demin
5th for Larsen became Micheal Karow
3rd for Miller became Hugo Alnefelt

Got some picks back of course. A number of those picks are ones acquired in other trades as well. Can't go forever without trading picks but the only serious complaint I've had on picks is the lack thereof considering our standing in the league.

 

[4Twenty]

thank you for that. I didn’t know he had such issues prior to acquiring him. I’ll have to reasses my opinion on the trade but I think the potential talent ability of Sven still makes it a reasonable get; though with this new info the price might be too high

Calgary's GM was on record that no other offer came close to Benning's offer. You should re-assess. His AHL and NHL production was trending down when the trade was made. I think it was probably 50/50 whether Calgary would even have qualified him if he wasn't traded.

 

[4Twenty]

2nd for Vey became Roland Mckeown
3rd for Dorsett became Keegan Iverson
2nd for Baertschi became Rasmus Andersson
3rd for Andrey Pedan we got back in Sutter trade
5th for Prust became Nolan Stevens
2nd for Sutter became Filip Gustavsson
2nd for Gudbranson became Rasmus Asplund
4th for Gudbrason Johnathan Ang
6th for Etem became Dominic Lakatos
4th for Pouliot became Slava Demin
5th for Larsen became Micheal Karow
3rd for Miller became Hugo Alnefelt

Got some picks back of course. A number of those picks are ones acquired in other trades as well. Can't go forever without trading picks but the only serious complaint I've had on picks is the lack thereof considering our standing in the league.

The absolute worst way to evaluate these moves is by limiting it to who the other team used their pick on. Like if I was the Canucks, I wouldn't be basing it on who the other team selected, I'd be analyzing it against the teams list and I'd also be looking at who was available.

The 2nd for Vey became McKeown, but they also could've drafted Christian Dvorak, Brandon Montour, Warren Foegele or the guy I wanted - Brayden Point.

 

[NoShowWilly]

The absolute worst way to evaluate these moves is by limiting it to who the other team used their pick on. Like if I was the Canucks, I wouldn't be basing it on who the other team selected, I'd be analyzing it against the teams list and I'd also be looking at who was available.

The 2nd for Vey became McKeown, but they also could've drafted Christian Dvorak, Brandon Montour, Warren Foegele or the guy I wanted - Brayden Point.

Oh for sure but I am not privy to that information. Honestly they would have done a much better job with those picks then they did by trading them.

 

[ChilliBilly]

The thing that amazes me is the Canucks are not smart enough to give contracts to people like baercheese where they get bonuses of $500,000 for 20 goals in 1 million for 30 goals but but the base salary it’s only $1.3 million

 

[Blue and Green]

The thing that amazes me is the Canucks are not smart enough to give contracts to people like baercheese where they get bonuses of $500,000 for 20 goals in 1 million for 30 goals but but the base salary it’s only $1.3 million

Performance bonuses are only for ELC and 35+. Otherwise not permitted.

 

[4Twenty]

The thing that amazes me is the Canucks are not smart enough to give contracts to people like baercheese where they get bonuses of $500,000 for 20 goals in 1 million for 30 goals but but the base salary it’s only $1.3 million

You cannot put bonuses on regular contracts, only ELC's and 35+ contracts.

They gave him a deal they thought was market value, they suck at reading the market.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The absolute worst way to evaluate these moves is by limiting it to who the other team used their pick on. Like if I was the Canucks, I wouldn't be basing it on who the other team selected, I'd be analyzing it against the teams list and I'd also be looking at who was available.

The 2nd for Vey became McKeown, but they also could've drafted Christian Dvorak, Brandon Montour, Warren Foegele or the guy I wanted - Brayden Point.

Agree with you completely.

Its like saying 5 dollars is more than 100 dollars because that 100 dollars was later lost at a roulette table!

 

[Melvin]

Well I'm shocked that didn't work.

 

[Melvin]

Agree with you completely.

Its like saying 5 dollars is more than 100 dollars because that 100 dollars was later lost at a roulette table!

Eh, I think it's a decent way of showing timeline.

 

[F A N]

The absolute worst way to evaluate these moves is by limiting it to who the other team used their pick on. Like if I was the Canucks, I wouldn't be basing it on who the other team selected, I'd be analyzing it against the teams list and I'd also be looking at who was available.

The 2nd for Vey became McKeown, but they also could've drafted Christian Dvorak, Brandon Montour, Warren Foegele or the guy I wanted - Brayden Point.

You also have to take into consideration who they would have drafted. They clearly wouldn't have drafted Brayden Point with that late 2nd round pick had they kept it. But I don't think you need to go that far. The Vey trade didn't work out. It was a bad trade.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Eh, I think it's a decent way of showing timeline.

Neat.

 

[Melvin]

Neat.

Like, obviously everyone knows we might not have picked the same player, but that's hardly the point. It's just saying, we'd likely have had a player who at this time is now at this stage of the development curve. I think that's valid.

Benning avoided picks like the plague because they TaKe tOo LoNG but a guy selected with the picks spent on baertschi and Vey would likely be in a good position to help this team now more than those guys are. That's the only point.

 

[4Twenty]

Like, obviously everyone knows we might not have picked the same player, but that's hardly the point. It's just saying, we'd likely have had a player who at this time is now at this stage of the development curve. I think that's valid.

Benning avoided picks like the plague because they TaKe tOo LoNG but a guy selected with the picks spent on baertschi and Vey would likely be in a good position to help this team now more than those guys are. That's the only point.

I think it would provide a better illustration, especially this far out, to show a range of players they would have had available to them. I think it's too simplistic and doesn't actually help to analyze the deal.

Like this is common, GM trades a player for a pick, opposing team drafts a bum with that pick.....fans/pundits: "see trade didn't hurt, they drafted a bum with the pick".

 

[orcatown]

Calgary's GM was on record that no other offer came close to Benning's offer. You should re-assess. His AHL and NHL production was trending down when the trade was made. I think it was probably 50/50 whether Calgary would even have qualified him if he wasn't traded.

Completely true.

Saw Baertschi when he first came to the Abbotsford team and he was just electric at times. When he returned after concussion he wasn't the same player.

Given three trials with the Flames after that and badly failed every time.

Trade was bad and the re-signing worse.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

This may be hindsight, but the pick we traded to Calgary for Baertschi became Rasmus Andersson, who is turning out to be a solid D-man.

Yeah,he would likely be our top young D-man after Hughes and would have have saved us having to sign Benn this summer as a stopgap.That would have saved us cap and allow Benn’s roster spot to be used for a developing player rather than a guy who’s likely gone in 2 years.

 

[RobertKron]

Like, obviously everyone knows we might not have picked the same player, but that's hardly the point. It's just saying, we'd likely have had a player who at this time is now at this stage of the development curve. I think that's valid.

Benning avoided picks like the plague because they TaKe tOo LoNG but a guy selected with the picks spent on baertschi and Vey would likely be in a good position to help this team now more than those guys are. That's the only point.

Yeah, but how much would those picks have helped the 2015-19 cup runs?

 

[VanJack]

Barring some sort of miracle or a catastrophic run of injuries in VanCity, Baertschi will probably play out the year in Utica. There's just no market for a player with his contract and injury history.

Just one of a number of dead, untradeable Canuck contracts. Surely the Canucks have some of the worst contracts in the league, relative to performance, for players at the bottom of the roster.

 

[PG Canuck]

Trades within divisions rarely happen especially teams like CGY/VAN where there is a bit of a rivalry there, yet Calgary still felt completely comfortable to trade Baertschi here. Maybe that should’ve raised a bit of a red flag? That, and because of the return they got from Benning.

Andersson would surely help our blueline.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Trades within divisions rarely happen especially teams like CGY/VAN where there is a bit of a rivalry there, yet Calgary still felt completely comfortable to trade Baertschi here. Maybe that should’ve raised a bit of a red flag? That, and because of the return they got from Benning.

Andersson would surely help our blueline.

The 2nd round pick’s value was/is the price, not the Andersson selection in particular.

The trade was probably one of Benning’s better moves. I said so at the time. The result obviously did not turn out to justify the process behind the deal.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Is it actually possible that they waived him just to make a point to him/his agent in regards to trade value?

No.