well in their first year he outscored him by 15 in 20 less games.
before bob Artley got his hands on him and sent him back to the ahl lol
Canucks Management & Ownership Discussion | Part 25
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well in their first year he outscored him by 15 in 20 less games.
before bob Artley got his hands on him and sent him back to the ahl lol
You mean the first year where Shinakruk was recovering from major hip surgery? Was Granlund recovering from similar surgery?
In year 2 - after recovery his skating - he outperformed Granlund. That's fairly significant as he built on his first season while Granlund did not.
Samzilla
Prust & Dorsett are
- Apr 2, 2011
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Didn't u know only first year AHL production counts (and projections based on that)? Actual progression means nothing.
Funny enough, that's exactly how Benning does his pro scouting.
It only counts when people make emotional arguments ("Shinkaruk sucks!") then scramble to post hoc justify their argument with any bit of data they can find.
ATypicalCanadian
Registered User
Idk if this was posted yet, but Benning was on TSN 1040 last night.
EDIT: Forgot to add the interview link http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1...ry-important-piece-for-the-long-haul-1.540119
EDIT: Forgot to add the interview link http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1...ry-important-piece-for-the-long-haul-1.540119
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Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson
Baertschi-Horvat-Hansen
Rodin-Sutter-Burrows
Dorsett-Granlund-Etem
Extra forwards (not waiver eligible):
Virtanen
Gaunce
I'm not against having more depth but what kind of a forward are they going to "add" without trading one away? And where would they play? Etem's spot? Cause you know Dorsett will play.
ATypicalCanadian
Registered User
They're also considering PTO's, talking trade and looking at the remaining UFA's. He said they'd like a 15/20 goal scorer..
I'm guessing a left winger imo.
Sedin Sedin Hansen
____ Horvat Eriksson
Baertschi Sutter Hansen
Dorsett Granlund/Gaunce Rodin
Extra: Etem, Virtanen
Benning did say Virtanen could go to the Comets if they feel it's best. If they trade a guy + picks or prospects for a 20 goal scorer then maybe Virtanen stays Idk..
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I'm all for an upgrade, but I took the words "add a forward" as more a depth thing than an upgrade thing. I would rather we let Gaunce/Virtanen have bigger roles than add another Etem or Dorsett scrub for Willie to give too many minutes to.
So if Rodin is ready, he's a Canuck. This is so because he has that crybaby clause that says I play in the NHL or I go back home. "No AHL for me." Tryamkin has the same clause in his contract. Add this outlier of a forward, Kane, Hudler, whoever, to Rodin and the Canucks have 14 roster forwards. The Vrbata talk could seal the number at 14 without another extra forward unless he's the extra. If he's on board as well, who do you see the Canucks sending to Utica?
This would mean Gaunce is already a Comet before this discussion. Granlund? Maybe Etem? Both would have to pass through waivers and have lower salary numbers than Dorsett who would also have to go on the wire. Benning is backing himself into a corner that could cost him a player or two. Dorsett lost to waivers would be a blessing, but I don't see him being the guy.
Granlund's loss or passing through would show the Shinkaruk deal to be even worse than people have been arguing. It would prove he was traded for an unwanted player who can't make any NHL team.
Etem would just be a gamble that didn't pay off, but while far from a key player, I see him as a better fit in Vancouver than Granlund.
Virtanen could come down, but that would set off turmoil in the city. I'm sure Benning could handle the negative feedback, but at the same time I don't see him sending his current best toy down.
[Off topic, but this special no AHL clause is another way Benning ends up shortchanging his AHL depth by having to keep a certain player which blackmails him in to sending a guy down that he wanted to keep up or keeping that guy and his desired AHL assignment goes back home to Europe instead of to Utica. The Comets then are not only denied a pretty good player, but actually shortchanged one roster player all together as they got no one from this transaction when they should have received a demotion from the Canucks. This also happened last season when Jensen and Shinkaruk were dealt in separate trades and the two roster lost Comets were never replaced by the Canucks.]
All food for thought. It is still mid summer and we are running out of fresh stuff.
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mossey3535
Registered User
- Feb 7, 2011
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Thanks for posting this, your scenarios flesh out what I've been saying about how lack of control over Granlund due to waiver status is the more egregious part of the deal. Since his quality as a player is not overwhelming, what we have to do to keep him away from waivers hampers our flexibility at all levels of the organization.
Huggy43
Registered User
Lets be honest guys: they aren't sending one of their main marketing tools to Utica. Virtanen will be in Vancouver this year, they wouldn't plaster his face on ads if it weren't the case.
Though this is our management group we're talking about, anything is possible...
Though this is our management group we're talking about, anything is possible...
ATypicalCanadian
Registered User
Yeah the tweet I linked doesn't add the whole piece. In the audio clip he said they'd like a experienced 15-20 goal scorer. He said he talked to abunch of the teams and hasn't gotten far and is circling to UFA again and maybe PTO's(noted there is guys holding out for contracts and have talked to some guys who might be lined up for those try outs).
Someone could be traded for the 15-20 goal scorer forward wise and we're already packed with options either way. If Kane is acquired for example(discussed to death and will probably continue to be) Willie could go and do this:
Sedin Sedin Hansen
Kane Horvat Eriksson
Gaunce and Virtanen could very well be in Utica if they give the spots to the other guys already here or traded for/signed..
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
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in terms of players their cluelessDo we have to?
I think it is interesting that now we have more and more publications coming out pointing out just how terrible our GM, owner and Coach are, and yet we still have people standing up them. Especially with lines like well they have the job so they must be good.
It wasn't enough for Sportnet and TSN to make fun of us, we needed these last two reports as well...
IN terms of managing non player related business i wouldn't have a problem with it, but clueless in terms of players.
would you rather have
A----------------------B
KESLER ---------- ERIKSSON
MATTHIAS---------BAERTSCHI
KASSIAN-----------DORSETT
RICHARDSON-----SUTTER
HIGGINS-----------ETEM
GARRISON--------SBISA
HAMHUIS----------HUTTON
BIEKSA------------GUDBRANSON
LACK---------------MILLER
COST (30..35M)-------COST (33MILLION)
AVG AGE(30.55)-------AVG AGE(27.11)
I ONLY INCLUDED HUTTON AND HAMHUIS BECAUSE HIS RAISE NEXT OFFSEASON NECESSITATED THAT SBISA BE MOVED WHICH APPARENTLY WASNT POSSIBLE YET OR NOT BEING ABLE TO SIGN HUTTON.
A-----------------------B
SHINKARUK--------GRANLUND
JENSEN-------------RODIN
MCNALLY-----------OLSON
ANDERSSON-------BRISEBOIS
MCKEOWN----------STECHER
SIDEROFF-----------PEDAN
ASPLUND-----------CHAPUT
FORSLING----------CANDELLA
ANG-----------------RENDULIC
GUSTAVSSON------GARTEIG
STAUM--------------SAUTNER
5TH(LARSEN)------LARSEN
6TH(ETEM)
DEMKO BOESER VIRTANEN JUOLEVI IS A FINE GROUP OF BLUE CHIPS IN 3 DRAFTS.
MANAGEMENT IS DOING A GOOD JOB WITH PLAYERS......CONTRACTS, MESSAGING, NEGOTIATIONS COLLECTIVE, LAW, TIMING AND ASSET MANAGEMENT IS ANOTHER STORY AND I CAN SEE WHY POEPLE ARE NOTICING WE ARE AMONGST THE WORST AT THESE THINGS. IMO ITS NOT EASY TO RESET A CORE AGE GROUP AND NO TEAMS MANAGEMENT WANTS TO HAND OVER A YOUNG ASSET WITHOUT GETTING A PREMIUM RETURN IN A CAP AGE.......SOME LEEWAY HAS
TO BE GIVEN UNLESS WE JUST SIT BACK AND GO 7-8 YRS OF A REBUILD.
OUR CORE WAS A MESS LONG BEFORE NEW MANAGEMENT CAME ABOUT.
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Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
We finished in
THIRD LAST PLACE
Benning turned a mess into a piece of manure. Chicken manure.
I can't disagree more with your characterization of the return to Europe clause. If a European is willing to try the NHL but not come if it means playing in the minors, the team can either sign him or leave him in Europe. It's a reasonable request on the part of the player.
A player preferring to stay in Europe than play in the AHL (where he would make less money and play more games while being away from his culture) doesn't make him a crybaby in any way.
The option was never getting Rodin and Tryamkin for Utica. It was having them on the Canucks or having them play elsewhere. This isn't as good for the Comets as would the Canucks signing North American players, but it they make the Canucks then somebody else has to be moved-and that move will often be to Utica.
In Tryamkin's case, he'd have become an UFA if the Canucks didn't sign him before June 1, 2016. If he refused to sign without the Europe clause, then he had only to wait a couple of months and try to get it from another NHL team. (He'd have had to weigh that against burning a year off his elc, which only the Canucks were in a position to do.)
I do agree with you about Benning's trades of Jensen and Shinkaruk last season without getting back anyone to replace them on the Comets, a team that Canucks' management treated as an afterthought from the moment Henning was let go until this offseason, when they made several signings clearly intended for the Comets.
You sign a contract with an NHL team hoping to play in the best league in the world. If you have to spend a little time in the minors, join the North American club. If the Canadians, Americans, other Europeans (Finns, Swedes, Russians, Czechs, Latvians, Swiss, Danes, etc.) can do it, so can Rodin or Tryamkin. It's the price you may have to pay to make the NHL roster. Nobody else gets those kind of guarantees. You don't get to take your ball and go home. Sorry, that's just the way i see it. All the other guys who do it are away from home and their culture too. He'd have the same problem in the NHL.
Markstrom, Andersson, Pedan, Tommernes, Jokie, Jensen, Kenins, Blomstrand, Cederholm, Nilsson, and others have paid the price. No reason Rodin or Tryamkin can't do so as well.
If these two don't make the Vancouver roster, they go home. Utica loses their two highest level players to Vancouver and gets no one back. This clause weakens the farm team and takes the two best call-ups away from Vancouver. The only one to benefit from this plan of action is the player and the loss is incurred by the dope who gave him the out. If it was such a great idea, every European would be given this deal. The fact that most don't get it says it all. Benning was desperate to get these guys here in hopes they'd help the team, but it will make the team worse off if they don't. All this guy does is gamble. Las Vegas might be a good fix for his future.
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Virtanen got better as the year went on last year. I expect him to make the team on merit. He is perhaps the only physical forward that can play in the top 9 on team. As long as he is improving I would keep him up as there are no guarantees that the change in scenery would be good in Utica.
Yes!
There are still clueless, there is a large reason why we are the laughingstock of the NHL.
For a large portion the left side. Besides really there is no reason we couldn't have a mix of both besides incompetence. I mean you even mention the Hutton Miller thing when it was entirely a bad contract and miss management that lost us Hamhuis. Hell even still we should have gotten a couple more assets for Hamhuis.
We are paying more for worse... awesome. Who cares if they are older especially when you include players like Hutton who we could still have with the older guys. This hurts more when the teams M/O is still to make the playoffs and less to rebuild. (I said less, not completely not rebuild).
Same thing, why can't we have a mix of both? Especially when you don't line up players with who we lost them for. We could have a tone of both those guys. There is no rule that says you can't have more than X number of prospects.
It's an ok group. I like them all but it could be so much better. We also don't have any grade A Blue chip guys. Juolevi projects as a #2, Sure Boeser looks like a 1W, but not a guy to carry a line. I like them all, but who is a Nylander, Laine or a guy you build around?
How can you say this? Like actually how can you say this? I don't mind if the team sucks, but if they do they should have a lot more assets. Toronto has been rebuilding for less time than us and is way farther ahead. Calgary has been trying for what an extra year? They too are miles in front of us.
Our core wasn't a mess. Did it need changes? Yes no doubt. But this core just a year ago was still a playoff team. Now we are one of the worst teams in the NHL with not a great looking future.
Horrorshow
Registered User
- Jun 1, 2009
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Are you just assuming this? I can't find any information saying he has this clause.
Intangibos
High-End Intangibos
Why is that a crybaby clause? He's happy playing in Sweden and is willing to move to make the big leagues. The AHL for him is a step down for him and not in his home country.
If the equivalent of the Swedish league was in Canada, and Europe had the NHL/AHL. I'd probably not want to give up being a top player at home to be a minor league player in Europe.
He's not asking to be gift wrapped an NHL spot. He wants a chance to earn it, and if he isn't good enough, he'll just go play at home.
Fat Tony
Fire Benning
- Nov 28, 2011
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You know, although I hope he'll get fired sooner rather than later, I think we're past the point of no return of hiring good management and rebuilding with what we have.
We'll get to see just how bad Benning can make this team, and the Gillis excuse has a time limit.
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