Canucks Management Discussion | Part 21

[coldsteel79]

I don't think that we have to expose one of those players since I believe Hutton is exempt but the first part of your post is a really good point. Somehow we managed to deal Luongo on a terrible contract when he had a full NTC and only wanted to go to one team and we still managed to get back a decent middle six forward in Matthias as well as Markstrom.

Markstrom was a bust that current management rehabilitated, and Matthias is a replacement level player hardly a great deal at the time.

 

[y2kcanucks]

That's how I feel too, but I'm obviously not as critical as some, sure an extra third round pick from Chicago would be great now, but at the deadline that would have been a pr nightmare.

Except Benning was offered more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Markstrom was a bust that current management rehabilitated, and Matthias is a replacement level player hardly a great deal at the time.

Management had nothing to do in rehabilitating Markstrom. His goalie coaches did (Melanson and Cloutier who were hired by the Gillis regime).

 

[Cupless44]

Hutton isn't eligible.

Regardless, Gudbranson is a depth defenseman at best. He's not the type of guy who's going to change a defense and help a team win games. He's a better version of Sbisa.

The Gubrandson move will be interesting to follow. Trust me I don't like giving up young assets and for that reason I don't like the trade. I do think he still can improve unlike some here. What is going to be interesting is to see how the defencemen market plays out. Will the prices be absurd, will the Oilers be left without a chair when the music stops, was acting in advance of the draft a good move by Benning to get a RHD?

 

[Pip]

Markstrom was a bust that current management rehabilitated, and Matthias is a replacement level player hardly a great deal at the time.

Current management? You mean Rollie who was already in the organization? Regardless it was a good target to get back and much better than getting nothing back.

Matthias put up 18 goals for us in 2014/15. After a worse year the following season with the leafs he returned a 4th and a prospect. Clearly he had some value.

This is not about Gillis though, it's about Benning and his failure of a deadline that has left us with a pathetic amount of picks in this year's draft for a rebuilding team.

 

[coldsteel79]

There just seems to be no vision and no long term plan. Giving up picks and making short term moves to " be competitive and make the playoffs". I have to think ownership's involvement is part of the problem. Many on here could be right that Benning is just no good at being a GM, but the thing that doesn't add up to me is that he is a scout at heart who lives for the draft. It seems to me that Benning's own personal preference would be to build through the draft.

Of course it is, but the mandate has been compete while the sedins can play. Look at the volume of moves and turnover of roster it's obvious ownership is putting massive pressure on management. It will be very interesting next season if they don't make the playoffs (I'll owe some money if the bet actually happens).

 

[I in the Eye]

Would a third round pick have been fine? I agree he shoulda taken anything, even scraps from Chicago, but in this market you're damned if you do and your damned if you don't. But other than hamhuis and vrbata, the only other trade chip is Hansen who I think is more valuable here.

If a 3rd round pick is the offer that Benning strategically placed himself into accepting, then yes, that's what he should have taken. It is not damned if you do, and damned if you don't... It's damned if you don't. This can't be dragged into a debate if Hamhuis should have been traded or not based on the strength of the offers... The decision was made by Benning to trade him, the only outcome was to trade him once that decision was made (if the offer was the Canucks had to add a pick to Hamhuis and getting nothing in return, that would be different). Benning decided to trade an upcoming UFA, there was interest to take him... once this decision has been made, anything you get is better than nothing. The moves that Benning strategically left himself with now is to try and get Hamhuis to waive his NTC for a lower return at the draft (good luck), or lose Hamhuis for nothing. I do not believe that Hamhuis is in the plans for the future, and given this, and if Hamhuis leaves the Canucks with nothing to show for it, **** you Jim Benning.

The trade deadline was a complete failure... Hamhuis being the main **** up. Benning was looking to make moves, he had the assets to make moves, Benning strategically put himself in the position to make trades that day (he even got Hamhuis to waive his ntc for certain teams)... and he got nothing. If someone doesn't agree that the trade deadline was anything except a complete failure, I'm not sure what to say. How do you go about teaching a chicken about gravity? No matter what someone feels about Jim Benning, it should be agreed on by all, IMO... Benning ****ed up the trade deadline. If some are willing to forgive Benning more than others for this (i.e. we all make mistakes), fair enough... To me, enough is enough, but I do understand those that want to give Benning more rope... to hang himself with another day.

 

[Cupless44]

Supposedly he did.

At some point the Benning supporters will have to come to terms with the fact that Benning is an idiot.

LOL

That's funny but it isn't for Canuck fans.

I have never been afraid to call out his bad moves, and there are a few, but I have tried to remain objective and that has led me to defend Benning at times here, part of that might be I just can't be a fan who is 100% negative all the time, but I am getting worn down lol.

Benning is making it hard not to come to Jesus and admit he is an idiot! For me, if he picks Juolevi and leaves Tkachuk to fit in nicely with the Flames good young forwards....I am done with the guy totally. He is full on idiot.

 

[coldsteel79]

Management had nothing to do in rehabilitating Markstrom. His goalie coaches did (Melanson and Cloutier who were hired by the Gillis regime).

Right that's why he was playing awesome when torts was coaching.

 

[PM]

Markstrom was a bust that current management rehabilitated, and Matthias is a replacement level player hardly a great deal at the time.

Do you even believe what you say? Did Benning go and personally train Markstrom while he was personally scouting every prospect? Some people will go to extreme lengths to not give previous management credit for anything positive.

 

[Cupless44]

[QUOdTE=coldsteel79;119610647]That's how I feel too, but I'm obviously not as critical as some, sure an extra third round pick from Chicago would be great now, but at the deadline that would have been a pr nightmare.[/QUOTE]

How can the Leafs get two 2nds for Roman Polak and Benning can't get a lick?

 

[Ho Borvat]

I agree not moving vrbata during the summer was a mistake, but it's hard to predict that vrbata was gonna crap the bed all year

In all fairness, I think a lot of that is attributed to taking him away from the Sedins and throwing him on a defensive shutdown line.

If that was their plan for the season
A) It was a dumb plan
B) They should have traded him in the offseason when he was coming off a 60 point season and likely could have landed a 1st round pick.\

He should have been put back with the Sedins and given cushy minutes going into the deadline so we could maximize on his value at the deadline.

Instead we got nothing for him.

 

[Cupless44]

If a 3rd round pick is the offer that Benning strategically placed himself into accepting, then yes, that's what he should have taken. It is not damned if you do, and damned if you don't... It's damned if you don't. This can't be dragged into a debate if Hamhuis should have been traded or not based on the strength of the offers... The decision was made by Benning to trade him, the only outcome was to trade him once that decision was made (if the offer was the Canucks had to add a pick to Hamhuis and getting nothing in return, that would be different). Benning decided to trade an upcoming UFA, there was interest to take him... once this decision has been made, anything you get is better than nothing. The moves that Benning strategically left himself with now is to try and get Hamhuis to waive his NTC for a lower return at the draft (good luck), or lose Hamhuis for nothing. I do not believe that Hamhuis is in the plans for the future, and given this, and if Hamhuis leaves the Canucks with nothing to show for it, **** you Jim Benning.

The trade deadline was a complete failure... Hamhuis being the main **** up. Benning was looking to make moves, he had the assets to make moves, Benning strategically put himself in the position to make trades that day (he even got Hamhuis to waive his ntc for certain teams)... and he got nothing. If someone doesn't agree that the trade deadline was anything except a complete failure, I'm not sure what to say. How do you go about teaching a chicken about gravity? No matter what someone feels about Jim Benning, it should be agreed on by all, IMO... Benning ****ed up the trade deadline. If some are willing to forgive Benning more than others for this (i.e. we all make mistakes), fair enough... To me, enough is enough, but I do understand those that want to give Benning more rope... to hang himself with another day.

You are right about the deadline. I am afraid there is no other way to look at it.

 

[coldsteel79]

Except Benning was offered more than a 3rd round pick.

Source?

 

[Pip]

In all fairness, I think a lot of that is attributed to taking him away from the Sedins and throwing him on a defensive shutdown line.

If that was their plan for the season
A) It was a dumb plan
B) They should have traded him in the offseason when he was coming off a 60 point season and likely could have landed a 1st round pick.\

He should have been put back with the Sedins and given cushy minutes going into the deadline so we could maximize on his value at the deadline.

Instead we got nothing for him.

Trading Bonino away also likely hurt Vrbata since they did have some chemistry together.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Right that's why he was playing awesome when torts was coaching.

You mean in the 4 games he played under Torts, before our goalie coaches had a chance to work with him?

 

[Cupless44]

In all fairness, I think a lot of that is attributed to taking him away from the Sedins and throwing him on a defensive shutdown line.

If that was their plan for the season
A) It was a dumb plan
B) They should have traded him in the offseason when he was coming off a 60 point season and likely could have landed a 1st round pick.\

He should have been put back with the Sedins and given cushy minutes going into the deadline so we could maximize on his value at the deadline.

Instead we got nothing for him.

Good point. Hard to believe there was no effort to showcase Vrbata and get some trade value out of a player that clearly both sides were done with each other.

Mind you, Vrbata's sulking act has cost him a lot of money. I suspect he will be signing a cheaper, one year " show me " contract this summer.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Source?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/0...dline-day-and-the-canucks-best-move-in-weeks/

Looks like Chicago offered 1st and Dano for Hamhuis. Dallas offered Jokipakka, Pollock, and a 3rd.

 

[coldsteel79]

You mean in the 4 games he played under Torts, before our goalie coaches had a chance to work with him?

Yes, getting him down to the ahl where he was able to play a full season working with cloutier was instrumental in him turning the corner. If he stuck with the big club as backup to lack I doubt he'd be the same goalie he is today, so yes I think management gets some credit for that. As does gillis for getting him, but at the time of the trade that return wasn't great for a top goalie in the league.

 

[Pip]

Yes, getting him down to the ahl where he was able to play a full season working with cloutier was instrumental in him turning the corner. If he stuck with the big club as backup to lack I doubt he'd be the same goalie he is today, so yes I think management gets some credit for that. As does gillis for getting him, but at the time of the trade that return wasn't great for a top goalie in the league.

You completely missed the point. Gillis was able to trade a player that wanted out who had a full NTC, only wanted to go to one team, and had an absolutely terrible contract. If that is possible, then how is it acceptable that Benning could not move either Hamhuis or Vrbata?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yes, getting him down to the ahl where he was able to play a full season working with cloutier was instrumental in him turning the corner. If he stuck with the big club as backup to lack I doubt he'd be the same goalie he is today, so yes I think management gets some credit for that. As does gillis for getting him, but at the time of the trade that return wasn't great for a top goalie in the league.

Current management gets credit for possibly losing Markstrom on waivers? Wow, just wow.

Who's to say that Markstrom couldn't work on his game as a backup here? We did have Rollie Melanson as our goalie coach.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Right that's why he was playing awesome when torts was coaching.

Didn't he play 4 games under Torts?

 

[coldsteel79]

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/0...dline-day-and-the-canucks-best-move-in-weeks/

Looks like Chicago offered 1st and Dano for Hamhuis. Dallas offered Jokipakka, Pollock, and a 3rd.

Eventhough this is botch Ford and I don't believe anything he says this supports what I'm saying, Jim had a deal in place "They do admit at this point, Canucks management made a call to ownership."

 

[coldsteel79]

Current management gets credit for possibly losing Markstrom on waivers? Wow, just wow.

Who's to say that Markstrom couldn't work on his game as a backup here? We did have Rollie Melanson as our goalie coach.

Maybe but I think being "the go to guy" in net for cup run is more important to riding the pine.

 

[coldsteel79]

You completely missed the point. Gillis was able to trade a player that wanted out who had a full NTC, only wanted to go to one team, and had an absolutely terrible contract. If that is possible, then how is it acceptable that Benning could not move either Hamhuis or Vrbata?

A team that was familiar with him and wanted him as well. Hey if botch is right shame on the Canucks for turning down the Dallas offer, I just won't hang 100%of the blame on management like lots here do.