Dreger: Canucks looking to trade for top 6 winger

[sting101]

You guys watch him more than I, so I'll cede to your opinion.

You shouldn't have. You were on the right track. The poster you were arguing with is wrong on so many fronts. His opinions start with a bias that Benning is terrible at everything and works back from there to his conclusions.

Baertschi 100% is not the same player he was when he was pacing as a 40-50 pt 2 way top6 winger playing with Horvat in 2016-18. The injury and concussion accumulations by the 18/19 season had forced him out mentally and physically. He was quoted as saying he was unsure about continuing in 2018 and was concerned for his future after hockey saying there was more important things than hockey. He was never of the ability to be a dynamic top line scorer but was a decent top 6 scoring winger for a few seasons who still had upside. Unfortunately he could not stay healthy and things went south.

When the Canucks signed him they were pleased with his progress and he had shown good chemistry with Horvat and looked to be a staple with him for the duration of that contract. You were completely spot on regarding his fragility. It changed everything.

Travis Green has little interest in using him in his btm 6 and the Canucks moved on understandably.

As far as a top6 winger? We'll see how things go with the auditions this year. Miller will be back soon for the top line. Hoglander is in for now and has shown that he's a viable option (which is found money), Virtanen probably never gets there but will have his moments (dont think he will ever be consistent enough), Podkolzin is comin soon and of course the trade routes could always open up with a plethora of UFAs at seasons end.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

The sad thing is acquiring Toffoli (last season), finally stabilized our top 6. For the first time in awhile we had a solid top 6. So one step forward, 2-3 steps back again. Counter productive!

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Sven was a quality top 6 forward for a few years. The Hyka hit really f***ed his career, such a dirty cheap shot.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I thought of this as well when Roslovic and Logan Browns names were out there. Move Gaudette to the wing and move JV for another young C like the 2 mentioned.

Something like that could work. I'd say JV has a bit more value than Brown straight up. But I'd do something around that.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

The sad thing is acquiring Toffoli (last season), finally stabilized our top 6. For the first time in awhile we had a solid top 6. So one step forward, 2-3 steps back again. Counter productive!

Hogz looks good there. Could help stabilize the top 6 at a much lower aav.

 

[bernmeister]

Buchnevich + Hajek + Buf 3rd owned by Rangers
for
Nate Schmidt + VAN 2021 2nd

something like that.
Buch = quality W add and if you do have a top 6 [setting aside premise of OP] then that is good depth someone goes to third line.
Hajek looked phenom when he first got here, got injured, then lost in shuffle. W/Staal gone and Smith no longer taking D mins, there is some room. But we have Miller and 2 other prospects, so he can be had.
Hajek would have to recover his potential to reach Schmidt production but while he's a gamble, your value is offset in the less expensive Buchnevich.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Buchnevich + Hajek + Buf 3rd owned by Rangers
for
Nate Schmidt + VAN 2021 2nd

something like that.
Buch = quality W add and if you do have a top 6 [setting aside premise of OP] then that is good depth someone goes to third line.
Hajek looked phenom when he first got here, got injured, then lost in shuffle. W/Staal gone and Smith no longer taking D mins, there is some room. But we have Miller and 2 other prospects, so he can be had.
Hajek would have to recover his potential to reach Schmidt production but while he's a gamble, your value is offset in the less expensive Buchnevich.

Easy no for the Canucks. They give up the best player and better draft pick.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Buchnevich + Hajek + Buf 3rd owned by Rangers
for
Nate Schmidt + VAN 2021 2nd

something like that.
Buch = quality W add and if you do have a top 6 [setting aside premise of OP] then that is good depth someone goes to third line.
Hajek looked phenom when he first got here, got injured, then lost in shuffle. W/Staal gone and Smith no longer taking D mins, there is some room. But we have Miller and 2 other prospects, so he can be had.
Hajek would have to recover his potential to reach Schmidt production but while he's a gamble, your value is offset in the less expensive Buchnevich.

Nope

Canucks D doesn't exactly look spectacular even *with* Schmidt... he's needed

Not sold on Hajek at all, and Canucks should be keeping their higher picks imo

Just fyi ~ though Schmidt is a LHD, he prefers playing on the right side... so not really a fit for you guys either imo

 

[4Twenty]

You shouldn't have. You were on the right track. The poster you were arguing with is wrong on so many fronts. His opinions start with a bias that Benning is terrible at everything and works back from there to his conclusions.

Baertschi 100% is not the same player he was when he was pacing as a 40-50 pt 2 way top6 winger playing with Horvat in 2016-18. The injury and concussion accumulations by the 18/19 season had forced him out mentally and physically. He was quoted as saying he was unsure about continuing in 2018 and was concerned for his future after hockey saying there was more important things than hockey. He was never of the ability to be a dynamic top line scorer but was a decent top 6 scoring winger for a few seasons who still had upside. Unfortunately he could not stay healthy and things went south.

When the Canucks signed him they were pleased with his progress and he had shown good chemistry with Horvat and looked to be a staple with him for the duration of that contract. You were completely spot on regarding his fragility. It changed everything.

Travis Green has little interest in using him in his btm 6 and the Canucks moved on understandably.

As far as a top6 winger? We'll see how things go with the auditions this year. Miller will be back soon for the top line. Hoglander is in for now and has shown that he's a viable option (which is found money), Virtanen probably never gets there but will have his moments (dont think he will ever be consistent enough), Podkolzin is comin soon and of course the trade routes could always open up with a plethora of UFAs at seasons end.

Lol ok Markus Granlund lover


His game didn’t change. He played exactly the same.

Earned Gaudette a spot on the opening roster at camp last season. Did the exact same things as he had always done.

Went down to Utica and played that exact same way.

Folks like yourself want an excuse for the flop.

 

[elitepete]

Buchnevich + Hajek + Buf 3rd owned by Rangers
for
Nate Schmidt + VAN 2021 2nd

something like that.
Buch = quality W add and if you do have a top 6 [setting aside premise of OP] then that is good depth someone goes to third line.
Hajek looked phenom when he first got here, got injured, then lost in shuffle. W/Staal gone and Smith no longer taking D mins, there is some room. But we have Miller and 2 other prospects, so he can be had.
Hajek would have to recover his potential to reach Schmidt production but while he's a gamble, your value is offset in the less expensive Buchnevich.

If the Canucks are out of the playoff race close to the deadline, trading Schmidt might make sense. But not right now, our defense is already mediocre.

 

[Cogburn]

All of the top six players who have their own threads seem...way out of reach, price wise.

Dubois, Barkov, Laine...all of them fit our needs to a tee, but the requested prices(Necas and Pesce for Laine, from Carolina apparently) are out of reach, either from fans ideas or credible sources.

Kessel or Skinner (really not interested in Skinner, but an example) are about the only top six wingers we could conceivably get on the cheap (asset wise), and I just can't imagine they'd be worth their cap hit here.

A proposal of Eriksson+futures for Kessel was posted, and I didn't like the details, but I think that's the kind of trade we'd be looking at.

Man, we miss Miller.

 

[jd22]

Don't omit the fact that the Canucks were tied with 6 minutes left in game 7 to go to the conference finals just a few months ago. Say what you will, Benning stripped this team down and built them into that team in 6 years. Please find some rebuilds that were done better than that as of late?

I didn't say that Toffoli would hurt anyones development, nor did I imply that. We flat out could not afford him on a flat cap.

Everything changes in 2 years. Our young guys will be hitting their prime, and we will have 30 million in cap space coming off the books. The smart move is to run with what you have for now(which is a pretty good team), see what holes get filled with your young guys, fill the others via trades/FA's with your open space.

I suppose you think that Hughes, Pete, and Demko will merely be re-signing the same deals they have now, eh?

agreed. even if van did resign toffoli to whatever hes looking for, us fans will be up in arms and say why he signed him to that x amount of money? just like beagle/sutter/roussel. better to let the kids have a chance to play. growing pains.or what if benning decided he would sign a duclair type player as a band aid for the top 6?

This is a patently false narrative. If the cap space existed (for example, if the roster was one-less Myers, Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel) Toffoli could have been signed easily. And not a single fan would object to the number he got from montreal - 4 year contract starting now while he is 28 for ~4 mil. FFS; Toffoli gets paid less than Sutter while being younger and more productive.

This is a garbage take, and shame on you for attempting to re-write history and pre-write the future.

 

[Kshahdoo]

With so many good young kids, I think, Devils can trade Gusev for not very hefty price.

 

[bernmeister]

Easy no for the Canucks. They give up the best player and better draft pick.

Nope

Canucks D doesn't exactly look spectacular even *with* Schmidt... he's needed

Not sold on Hajek at all, and Canucks should be keeping their higher picks imo

Just fyi ~ though Schmidt is a LHD, he prefers playing on the right side... so not really a fit for you guys either imo

Can negotiate a bit, but consider
Schmidt is better player, but Buch is not chopped liver either
and
Hajek grossly underrated here.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Can negotiate a bit, but consider
Schmidt is better player, but Buch is not chopped liver either
and
Hajek grossly underrated here.

Canucks say no. They just acquired Schmidt for a third. They aren’t going to weaken defense for a nice winger but overall a lesser player: Hajek is a prospect everyone has. Decent one but not one that moves the needle.

 

[BCNate]

I suppose you think that Hughes, Pete, and Demko will merely be re-signing the same deals they have now, eh?



This is a patently false narrative. If the cap space existed (for example, if the roster was one-less Myers, Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel) Toffoli could have been signed easily. And not a single fan would object to the number he got from montreal - 4 year contract starting now while he is 28 for ~4 mil. FFS; Toffoli gets paid less than Sutter while being younger and more productive.

This is a garbage take, and shame on you for attempting to re-write history and pre-write the future.

Nope, But when you factor in the 5 that they already make combined, their new deals will not even take up half of the 30 million in open space.

 

[4Twenty]

Nope, But when you factor in the 5 that they already make combined, their new deals will not even take up half of the 30 million in open space.

Care to show your work here?


They account for less than $3m before bonuses currently.

Demko is likely getting between $3.5m and $4.5m.

Hughes might be the most prolific scoring defensman coming off an ELC ever. Let’s just say he’s getting $7m.

I think even $8m is probably a lowball to Pettersson but let’s assume it’s $8m.

Capfriendly projects the Canucks to have $22m.

The assumptions above is $18m of that $22m. How are you getting to $30+?

Then you recognize that their #1 matchup defensman also needs to be replaced and more than likely need to acquire a 2nd top 4 defensman.

people can hope that Vegas will take Holtby, I’m not so sure that’s a forgone conclusion.

Team will still have Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel and Tyler Myers eating up $18m of space for bottom pair/4th line players.

Bottom 6 still would look insanely weak (assuming Hoglander and Podkolzin are actually genuine top 6 players that quickly).

I saw posts in 2018 projecting huge amounts of cap space for this current season. It would be foolish to make those same assumptions now imo. Also Ferland’s space can’t be spent in the summertime, while they get that buffer when the season starts it hurts their offseason ability.

By my numbers above the team would have $4-5m to fill out 7 spots on the roster including high leverage positions like 3C and two top 4 D’s. Some folks are content to basically return the same team while others were hoping for the flexibility to actually improve on this roster.



Edit. Not at you but how did a guy who produces PPG in a less structured more physical league like the AHL as opposed to the NHL show that his game was changed by head injuries? Baertschi looked the same player in camp, helped earn Adam Gaudette a job in said training camp, but never got much of a chance. Gets waived to the unpredictable sometimes reckless AHL and proceeded to light it up and helped make some weak prospects look less weak. If we want to harp on head injuries let’s talk about the guy who got 4 years and $14m with a known concussion history who couldn’t even physically make it through 15 games.

 

[BCNate]

Care to show your work here?


They account for less than $3m before bonuses currently.

Demko is likely getting between $3.5m and $4.5m.

Hughes might be the most prolific scoring defensman coming off an ELC ever. Let’s just say he’s getting $7m.

I think even $8m is probably a lowball to Pettersson but let’s assume it’s $8m.

Capfriendly projects the Canucks to have $22m.

The assumptions above is $18m of that $22m. How are you getting to $30+?

Then you recognize that their #1 matchup defensman also needs to be replaced and more than likely need to acquire a 2nd top 4 defensman.

people can hope that Vegas will take Holtby, I’m not so sure that’s a forgone conclusion.

Team will still have Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel and Tyler Myers eating up $18m of space for bottom pair/4th line players.

Bottom 6 still would look insanely weak (assuming Hoglander and Podkolzin are actually genuine top 6 players that quickly).

I saw posts in 2018 projecting huge amounts of cap space for this current season. It would be foolish to make those same assumptions now imo. Also Ferland’s space can’t be spent in the summertime, while they get that buffer when the season starts it hurts their offseason ability.

By my numbers above the team would have $4-5m to fill out 7 spots on the roster including high leverage positions like 3C and two top 4 D’s. Some folks are content to basically return the same team while others were hoping for the flexibility to actually improve on this roster.



Edit. Not at you but how did a guy who produces PPG in a less structured more physical league like the AHL as opposed to the NHL show that his game was changed by head injuries? Baertschi looked the same player in camp, helped earn Adam Gaudette a job in said training camp, but never got much of a chance. Gets waived to the unpredictable sometimes reckless AHL and proceeded to light it up and helped make some weak prospects look less weak. If we want to harp on head injuries let’s talk about the guy who got 4 years and $14m with a known concussion history who couldn’t even physically make it through 15 games.

I said 30 million in two years. Erickson, beagle and rousel are gone by then.

I agree with you values for Demko, EP and Hughes, but they do have 2 million or so in bonus money that has to be included, so they are at 5 currently.

18.5 to resign them, when they currently make 5 means they add 13.5 to the current cap. Pretty easy math to work out, not sure why you need my help on it.

 

[4Twenty]

I said 30 million in two years. Erickson, beagle and rousel are gone by then.

I agree with you values for Demko, EP and Hughes, but they do have 2 million or so in bonus money that has to be included, so they are at 5 currently.

18.5 to resign them, when they currently make 5 means they add 13.5 to the current cap. Pretty easy math to work out, not sure why you need my help on it.

In two years? Even more foolish to projecting all that space. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Rschmitz]

Could I interest you in lightly used Tyler Johnson?

 

[Nucker42]

Could I interest you in lightly used Tyler Johnson?

Would actually fit nicely, just not sure how they make him fit cap wise.

 

[BCNate]

In two years? Even more foolish to projecting all that space. Thanks for the reply.

Just stating facts bro.

 

[jd22]

Just stating facts bro.

'Wishes' is more accurate. The Canucks defence next year looks like Schmidt - Juolevi, Myers and Hughes. You think it wise to roster a total of four defensemen?

 

[BCNate]

'Wishes' is more accurate. The Canucks defence next year looks like Schmidt - Juolevi, Myers and Hughes. You think it wise to roster a total of four defensemen?

Elder will 100% be resigned after the ED. At least one of Raftery, Rathbone, chatfield, brisebois will make the jump. Who knows what happens with Hamonic, I could see him back.

9 million opens up on d, more than enough to add one of the rookies and bring back Edler and an improvement on Hamonic if needed.

 

[GOilers88]

The sad thing is acquiring Toffoli (last season), finally stabilized our top 6. For the first time in awhile we had a solid top 6. So one step forward, 2-3 steps back again. Counter productive!

Wasn't Toffoli just insurance because Boeser was hurt? Or was he always seen as long term? I think they should be trying to shore up their defense before looking for another winger.