Confirmed with Link: Canucks extend Jim Benning’s contract

[MS]

The pick that was eventually used to select Boeser != Boeser. The value is way different. At the time, the proposed trade was pretty fair value, even though with how the involved pieces have developed now, it would have been awful. It's worth remembering that at the time, Lucic was a very solid commodity in Boston at 27 and went on to record two strong years in LA and Edmonton respectively before his dramatic decline.

The point is that Benning was actively trying to trade that pick in 2015 to compete now, which would have been a horrific move.

We also apparently tried moving the 2016 pick in a deal for PK Subban.

And traded a 2014 #1 pick and a high 2nd rounder for Erik Gudbranson.

So when people are giving kudos to Benning for 'building through the draft' - well, I guess we sort of did, but it was kinda by accident as a 2nd choice and not what Benning intended on happening if he could have had the deals he wanted to make go through. The guy was actively trying to trade away top picks in compete-now moves in an attempt to supplement a bad team that was clearly unable to compete now.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Benning worked hard on Lucic deal, but Bruins chose Kings package to land winger

So glad that fell through. Benning would've been fired 2 years ago had that trade happened, we'd be further back & who knows if we would have Pettersson now.

The whole directive at the beginning was so stupid. Aqullini tried holding off the rebuild with all his will.

 

[member 290103]

Look, any reasonable and informed person could only conclude that Benning has been a disaster. His only “good” move was the promotion of Judd Brackett. His trading and UFA record are nothing but abysmal. His great drafting is the result of a combination of his plans to compete falking flat and Judd Bracketts scouting acumen.

I have concluded that Aqualini is only keeping him on for one of three reasons:

1) He lets Aqualini play GM mode with the team and just does what he says. Linden got in the way of that so they turfed him. (Linden deserves all kinds of blame for all this too, but that’s another matter).

2) Aqualini knows he f***ed up but refuses to admit it by moving on and instead floats the notion that Benning is doing a good job with a rebuild.

3). Aqualini knows that his reputation precedes him and there are no legitimate GMs that will work for him.

The bottom line here is that Aqualini’s ego is the root cause of where we are at and why we are going to continue to suffer.

 

[MS]

Please quote my post where I said that Benning wanted to rebuild in 2014..I never said that..Rebuilding in 2014 was never an option..The mandate set by the owner and President was to 'compete on the fly".

Linden wanting to do a 'slow' rebuild' appears to be true..and was forced out..Sitting around waiting for 1st round draft picks years after year is no guarantee of anything, except expecting the same losing results of the previous years...This season will determine if Benning and ownership were correct in accelerating the process.

I liked Gillis throughout most of his tenure (didnt even mind his arrogance)..He put the final touches on an elite core (and got us to a game of the SC)..but he also squandered his inheritance, and left a sunken ship of a prospect pool...

What? My post clearly says 2015, which you mentioned earlier as a point where Benning wanted to rebuild after the Calgary series. Now you're saying he didn't.

This season will determine nothing. Benning and Aquilini would only be proven correct if we have a legitimate Cup contender in 2-3 years. Not by blowing their load to sneak into the playoffs this year. Again, the moving goalposts and low bar are astonishing.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

The point is that Benning was actively trying to trade that pick in 2015 to compete now, which would have been a horrific move.

We also apparently tried moving the 2016 pick in a deal for PK Subban.

And traded a 2014 #1 pick and a high 2nd rounder for Erik Gudbranson.

So when people are giving kudos to Benning for 'building through the draft' - well, I guess we sort of did, but it was kinda by accident as a 2nd choice and not what Benning intended on happening if he could have had the deals he wanted to make go through. The guy was actively trying to trade away top picks in compete-now moves in an attempt to supplement a bad team that was clearly unable to compete now.

Completely agree.

My take is a little different though. How much of it is solely Benning & how much of it is our ownership telling Benning they don't want a rebuild? They already did it to Gillis. The disagreements on that sent Linden out the door.

I just find it hard to believe ownership wasn't pushing it. No wonder experienced & respected GM's/presidents don't want to come here.

 

[archangel2]

my problem with those defending Benning. They mention his great skill at picking first rounders. For me, I do not pump the tires for GM based upon players taken in the top ten. Hughes and Petterson went right where they were supposed to. Boesser he does score points. We are now on year 5 of his GM regime and we should start seeing production from his none first round picks. How close are any of the picks from his 2016 draft from being in the NHL? By year 5 the AHL team is a direct reflection of his ability to build a roster. I have my concerns from what I see

 

[MS]

I'd love to see these sources, haven't heard that before.

Im pretty sure they had Hughes & Pettersson ranked 3rd in their respective years. In 2017 I think they had Makar & Heiskanen 1-2. No doubt in my mind they would've taken Makar if he was available, but he wasn't, and they went for Pettersson who was ranked lower than #5.

As far as had we drafted differently, its hard to say. Depends on who the picks were, the arguments could be the same or Benning could've been fired. I don't know that there's much value in speculating that.

The Lucic trade stuff has been talked about endlessly. The general scuttlebutt is that the 'better deal' that Benning thought he offered was the Boeser pick, one of our goalies (Lack or Markstrom) and another asset. Boston then preferred the goalie LA was offering to our goalie so took that deal.

Pettersson stuff was confirmed by JD Burke in an interview on this site and had been speculated by a few of us here for a long time. From the sounds of it, Benning and the western scouts (including his son) wanted Glass, Brackett and Gradin wanted Pettersson, and Linden stepped into settle it in favour of Brackett. Others believe there's no way this could have happened and that Burke is just making stuff up. Obviously I believe a media-accredited reporter is credible, especially since this lines up with the circumstantial evidence.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Benning worked hard on Lucic deal, but Bruins chose Kings package to land winger

Geez we really dodged one there.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What? My post clearly says 2015, which you mentioned earlier as a point where Benning wanted to rebuild after the Calgary series. Now you're saying he didn't.

This season will determine nothing. Benning and Aquilini would only be proven correct if we have a legitimate Cup contender in 2-3 years. Not by blowing their load to sneak into the playoffs this year. Again, the moving goalposts and low bar are astonishing.

Benning said in his radio interview that he felt the team needed to be rebuilt after 2015...The moves for the next two years dont align with that...See Krutovs post (#918)...Linden made comments about he would not rebuild with the Sedins here..You can figure out your own version of that scenario.

This season will determine everything..Its the culmination of the last 5 years...Benning will either be absolved..or dissolved.

 

[MS]

Benning said in his radio interview that he felt the team needed to be rebuilt after 2015...The moves for the next two years dont align with that...See Krutovs post (#918)...Linden made comments about he would not rebuild with the Sedins here..You can figure out your own version of that scenario.

Benning's interview is clearly whitewashing BS.

Nothing he said or did at any point after 2015 indicated he wanted to rebuild at that point.

And again, the notion that he thought COMPETE! after a non-playoff year, REBUILD! after a 101-point season, and COMPETE! in 2017-18 after the failures of the previous years is just comical.

This season will determine everything..Its the culmination of the last 5 years...Benning will either be absolved..or dissolved.

LMAO.

No, squeaking into the playoffs absolves nothing. The whole point is to be a contender. If Benning sacrificed that in order to squeak into the playoffs and then the team subsequently goes nowhere, he is absolutely not a success and has instead blown a decade of this franchise's history through his incompetence.

If this team wins a division title in 20-21 or 21-22 and makes a deep playoff run, then Jim Benning is absolved and I'll admit things have worked out. A playoff berth? Not a freaking chance.

Mike Milbury made the playoffs 3 times. Success?

Chiarelli made the playoffs in Edmonton. Success?

It is absolutely mentally Pejorative Slured that that pro-Benning crowd is trying to frame the entire Benning era as a success if he squeaks into the playoffs 6 years in after mortgaging the future for that playoff push. Again, Quinn and Burke took over worse situations in harder times to turn things around and had legitimate Cup contenders by year 5.

Benning's stated goal was to be with the elite teams in the NHL by 16-17 or 17-18. Being the 16th best team three seasons later than that is a colossal failure, and the moving goalposts and pathetically low bar you're trying to hype up here are frankly astonishing.

 

[I am toxic]

This strawman meme is so boring already, cut it out lol

Is arguing against what the poster is actually saying instead of comically misrepresenting them really too much to ask

Wait, making nonsensical claims doesn't elicit a response from you, but mocking those nonsensical claims warrants one?

I have to dismiss your suggestions for now. I'll continue to post as I see fit, subject to site rules and the mods.

 

[tantalum]

Completely agree.

My take is a little different though. How much of it is solely Benning & how much of it is our ownership telling Benning they don't want a rebuild? They already did it to Gillis. The disagreements on that sent Linden out the door.

I just find it hard to believe ownership wasn't pushing it. No wonder experienced & respected GM's/presidents don't want to come here.

It's on both 100%. Why? because benning didn't need to accept the job and vision but he did. As soon as he took the job he fully endorsed the plan (if it came from ownership). Though I think it was probably similar to the Gillis hiring....Aquilini hired the guys who told him what he wanted to hear. Gillis happened to be correct and was able to execute. The others weren't. And really it wasn't even really that they were wrong, per se, it was 99% poor execution that led them to what we've seen the last handful of years. Not the overriding demand. Make no mistake, it doesn't matter what strategy you try to align with this group the only conclusion you will come to is it's a bad management group.

Retool? Bad
rebuild? bad
retool followed by rebuild? bad
etc....

 

[xtra]

Benning said in his radio interview that he felt the team needed to be rebuilt after 2015...The moves for the next two years dont align with that...See Krutovs post (#918)...Linden made comments about he would not rebuild with the Sedins here..You can figure out your own version of that scenario.

This season will determine everything..Its the culmination of the last 5 years...Benning will either be absolved..or dissolved.

So absolved in your mind is to squeak into the playoffs with a cap strapped team and owing out a first round pick.

Do you want to lower the bar more?

 

[tantalum]

So absolved in your mind is to squeak into the playoffs with a cap strapped team and owing out a first round pick.

Do you want to lower the bar more?

The only way he can move the bar lower is to accept a GM that doesn't try. He already moved the bar a few days ago to he's trying really hard to do a good job.

We're basically at participation trophy level at this time.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Benning's interview is clearly whitewashing BS.

Nothing he said or did at any point after 2015 indicated he wanted to rebuild at that point.

And again, the notion that he thought COMPETE! after a non-playoff year, REBUILD! after a 101-point season, and COMPETE! in 2017-18 after the failures of the previous years is just comical.




LMAO.

No, squeaking into the playoffs absolves nothing. The whole point is to be a contender. If Benning sacrificed that in order to squeak into the playoffs and then the team subsequently goes nowhere, he is absolutely not a success and has instead blown a decade of this franchise's history through his incompetence.

If this team wins a division title in 20-21 or 21-22 and makes a deep playoff run, then Jim Benning is absolved and I'll admit things have worked out. A playoff berth? Not a freaking chance.

Mike Milbury made the playoffs 3 times. Success?

Chiarelli made the playoffs in Edmonton. Success?

It is absolutely mentally ******ed that that pro-Benning crowd is trying to frame the entire Benning era as a success if he squeaks into the playoffs 6 years in after mortgaging the future for that playoff push. Again, Quinn and Burke took over worse situations in harder times to turn things around and had legitimate Cup contenders by year 5.

Benning's stated goal was to compete with the elite teams in the NHL by 16-17 or 17-18. Being the 16th best team three seasons later than that is a colossal failure, and the moving goalposts and pathetically low bar you're trying to hype up here are frankly astonishing.

You've got to start somewhere..What do expect?...Go from a bottom feeder directly to the Conference Finals?..

Its not the pro Benning crowd that would herald a playoff berth as a success..It would be the media as a whole...

'The playoffs are low bar' is the expected default line by the anti managements,..If indeed, the Canucks do make the playoffs..

Were you expecting a contending brand new core within 2-3 years.?..not realistic in my opinion.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The only way he can move the bar lower is to accept a GM that doesn't try. He already moved the bar a few days ago to he's trying really hard to do a good job.

My opinion on the Canucks making the playoffs means diddly squat (as a lone poster on a message board)...If Benning can turn the Canucks into an annual playoff team (not just a one off)..It would be very exciting for hockey in the city..

Who knows how far Pettersson ,Hughes,Demko,Horvat ,Boeser can take this team...?

 

[MS]

You've got to start somewhere..What do expect?...Go from a bottom feeder directly to the Conference Finals?..

Its not the pro Benning crowd that would herald a playoff berth as a success..It would be the media as a whole...

'The playoffs are low bar' is the expected default line by the anti managements,..If indeed, the Canucks do make the playoffs..

Were you expecting a contending brand new core within 2-3 years.?..not realistic in my opinion.

'Starting somewhere' is a 'step in the right direction', not 'playoffs this season is everything and completely absolves Benning!'

Making the playoffs *may* be a success if it proves that the moves Benning made allow the team to become a legitimate contender and that first playoff berth was a stepping stone for that. If that doesn't happen, making the playoffs would just be like Edmonton in 2017 - a fluke that happened in spite of bad management.

If it turns out we mortgaged the future to get that playoff berth by bailing on a proper rebuild and dealing away #1 picks and that playoff berth turns out to be a high point, that playoff berth is a complete failure, just like the rest of Jim Benning's tenure.

And yes, 6 years into a GM's tenure I expect better than 'squeaking into the playoffs'. Burke and Quinn turned dumpster fires into Cup contenders in 4-5 years. Gillis turned a middling nothing non-playoff team into the best team in the NHL in 3 years.

 

[MS]

It's just such an arbitrary pile of garbage.

If the team finishes with 88 points and misses the playoffs this year, apparently even PoM will admit that Benning is a failure and should be fired.

But if we win a couple extra OT coin flips to finish with 92 points and sneak into the 8th seed, EVERYTHING IN THE PREVIOUS 6 YEARS IS ABSOLVED AND BENNING IS A GREAT SUCCESS!

How can anyone with a decent level of intelligence swallow this shit with a straight face?

 

[krutovsdonut]

bottom line: benning would have to be a lot smarter than you think he is to still be under contract if everything was his idea over the objections of trevor "rebuild" linden.

let's recap

linden is friends and former team mates with the old core. he speaks of his loyalty to them.

in the 2017 summer after a horrendous season and the total failure of eriksson: canucks sign gagner, del zotto, burmistrov, nilsson, and vanek. all of the skaters signed are offensively talented.

this fails completely and by january 2018 we are toast after early success based on horvat and boeser.

by the tdl of 2018 burmi and vanek are gone, gagner and del zotto are in the coach's dog house, and nilsson is not trusted by the coach.

spring of 2018 the sedins suddenly announce they are retiring.

summer of 2018 linden is fired, and we sign a completely different style of ufa. all grinders.

at training camp 2018, gagner is exiled despite an adequate camp for a pro, likewise del zotto is demoted to #8 dman and healthy scratched, and nillson is still not trusted by the coach.

by the 2019 tdl, gagner, nillson and del zotto are all gone for scraps to get them off the roster.

how do people conclude from this timeline that linden wanted to rebuild and it was benning who was blocking him?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

'Starting somewhere' is a 'step in the right direction', not 'playoffs this season is everything and completely absolves Benning!'

Making the playoffs *may* be a success if it proves that the moves Benning made allow the team to become a legitimate contender and that first playoff berth was a stepping stone for that. If that doesn't happen, making the playoffs would just be like Edmonton in 2017 - a fluke that happened in spite of bad management.

If it turns out we mortgaged the future to get that playoff berth by bailing on a proper rebuild and dealing away #1 picks and that playoff berth turns out to be a high point, that playoff berth is a complete failure, just like the rest of Jim Benning's tenure.

And yes, 6 years into a GM's tenure I expect better than 'squeaking into the playoffs'. Burke and Quinn turned dumpster fires into Cup contenders in 4-5 years. Gillis turned a middling nothing non-playoff team into the best team in the NHL in 3 years.

Why would it be a fluke?...are you saying that our lineup would not be considered legitimate talent?....

Not a fan of giving away the #1 pick myself...but JT Miller (who is a #1 pick himself) should be able to produce as a top 6 for the next three years (probably the same amount of time a 2020 #1 pick will be able to make an impact in the Canucks lineup)...Its a gamble..no question...Benning bet his job on it.

The year prior to Gillis getting hired..The Canucks were a 105 point team (and got brutalized by injuries the following season, missing the playoffs)...Thats a big difference from having one impact player in your prospect pool, and the ageing core on your roster.

 

[Javaman]

It's just such an arbitrary pile of garbage.

If the team finishes with 88 points and misses the playoffs this year, apparently even PoM will admit that Benning is a failure and should be fired.

But if we win a couple extra OT coin flips to finish with 92 points and sneak into the 8th seed, EVERYTHING IN THE PREVIOUS 6 YEARS IS ABSOLVED AND BENNING IS A GREAT SUCCESS!

How can anyone with a decent level of intelligence swallow this **** with a straight face?

The ever-shifting narrative definitely raises some eyebrows.

 

[MS]

bottom line: benning would have to be a lot smarter than you think he is to still be under contract if everything was his idea over the objections of trevor "rebuild" linden.

let's recap

linden is friends and former team mates with the old core. he speaks of his loyalty to them.

in the 2017 summer after a horrendous season and the total failure of eriksson: canucks sign gagner, del zotto, burmistrov, nilsson, and vanek. all of the skaters signed are offensively talented.

this fails completely and by january 2018 we are toast after early success based on horvat and boeser.

by the tdl of 2018 burmi and vanek are gone, gagner and del zotto are in the coach's dog house, and nilsson is not trusted by the coach.

spring of 2018 the sedins suddenly announce they are retiring.

summer of 2018 linden is fired, and we sign a completely different style of ufa. all grinders.

at training camp 2018, gagner is exiled despite an adequate camp for a pro, likewise del zotto is demoted to #8 dman and healthy scratched, and nillson is still not trusted by the coach.

by the 2019 tdl, gagner, nillson and del zotto are all gone for scraps to get them off the roster.

how do people conclude from this timeline that linden wanted to rebuild and it was benning who was blocking him?

Huh?

Those 2017 deals were generally obvious short-term 'tradeable' contracts to patch over in a time of a rebuild, similar to what Toronto did. 2017 was literally the only offseason since Benning has been here where the team wasn't throwing huge trade/UFA offers for name players to compete now.

2017 saw us make actual deadline moves and most of that year saw actual talk of a rebuild. The tone in the summer of 2017 was very different from any other point here. Then the team had a surprisingly hot start that nobody expected and both Aquilini and Benning were suddenly talking playoffs.

Again, every bit of information we have - and this comes from multiple independent media sources - is that Linden started pushing for a full rebuild during 2016-17, that process was in place for a while, and then Benning and Aquilini pushed Linden out and the full rebuild was abandoned at some point in 17-18.

 

[timw33]

Regardless, if we had Nylander, Tkachuk, Konecny, and Glass or some other combination like that, would any of the pro-Benning arguments be any different?

People seem to discount how solid of a player Travis Konecny is too. The kid has put up back to back 20+ ESG 40+ ESP years in only 15:00 minutes of ice time and extremely limited PP time, has an excellent motor, and can play C in addition to wing.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's just such an arbitrary pile of garbage.

If the team finishes with 88 points and misses the playoffs this year, apparently even PoM will admit that Benning is a failure and should be fired.

But if we win a couple extra OT coin flips to finish with 92 points and sneak into the 8th seed, EVERYTHING IN THE PREVIOUS 6 YEARS IS ABSOLVED AND BENNING IS A GREAT SUCCESS!

How can anyone with a decent level of intelligence swallow this **** with a straight face?

It’s framing. POM is attempting to frame playoffs this year as the success or failure of the entire regime. Let him think that. It’s not going to change the judgment of Benning over the last 6 years.

He desperately wants it to. I get it, but it won’t matter in the least. If you can agree to re-sign Benning after having the worst ROW record over a 4 year span, while other teams were rebuilding too, then you can justify his re-signing with any minutia you can concoct, including a 1 year blip playoff berth.

 

[MS]

It’s framing. POM is attempting to frame playoffs this year as the success or failure of the entire regime. Let him think that. It’s not going to change the judgment of Benning over the last 6 years.

He desperately wants it to. I get it, but it won’t matter in the least. If you can agree to re-sign Benning after having the worst ROW record over a 4 year span, while other teams were rebuilding too, then you can justify his re-signing with any minutia you can concoct, including a 1 year blip playoff berth.

Oh, of course it’s framing. But it isn’t just him and it’s nuts how this narrative is getting pumped right now.

Somehow 6 years of bumbling incompetence are erased if a couple high draft picks (that we got by accident as a reward for failure when we out-tanked tanking teams when trying to compete) manage to carry us to a fluke playoff 8th seed.

It’s an insane low bar based on nothing that would make Mike Milbury look like a raging success as Isles GM.