Confirmed with Link: Canucks draft F Bo Horvat 9th Overall (1st Round)

[arsmaster*]

Don't want to rush him, but don't want him to stagnate either. We've tended to let our prospects rot on the pine in the past to the point where they've flat out regressed. If Horvat impresses and looks like he belongs I would hate to send him back just because of his age, or because we want to follow some stupid "Detroit model."

No player has ever been harmed by playing his 18 year old season in junior.

I'd love for you to show me one.

Let alone their 19 year old seasons.

I'm also interested to hear who you think has rotted on our bench?

I'd like to see Bo get 9 games and unless he's clearly ready I'd like to see him sent back.

Look at a guy like mark Scheifele. He's played games in the NHL in 2 seasons and played out his career and he clearly improved his offensive skills by my eyes.

This season for him just has too many good development stages in place for him already.

 

[Shareefruck]

How we soon forget.

I think Kesler was a better one on one player coming out of the draft too.

Horvat trumps him in board play, hand-eye, and likely net front presence and playmaking.

Kesler was pretty damn good prospect too.

But yeah, I'm excited about the new guy too.

I don't recall Kesler being touted for his one on one skills until AFTER he broke out and surprised everyone, personally.

 

[Pip]

Don't want to rush him, but don't want him to stagnate either. We've tended to let our prospects rot on the pine in the past to the point where they've flat out regressed. If Horvat impresses and looks like he belongs I would hate to send him back just because of his age, or because we want to follow some stupid "Detroit model."

Maybe if they have nothing more to prove at that level like a Jonathon Drouin, but Horvat can still learn a ton at the CHL level. Would love to see a big offensive year from him, with a strong WJC and Memorial Cup.

 

[arsmaster*]

I don't recall Kesler being touted for his one on one skills until AFTER he broke out and surprised everyone, personally.

Kesler challenged NHL defense one on one from the get go in the NHL.

It's not about being touted for me, it's about seeing skills.

Anyways, Bo is a great prospect and I'm glad to have him. Just trying to be realistic and not forgetful.

 

[Canucker]

Kesler challenged NHL defense one on one from the get go in the NHL.

It's not about being touted for me, it's about seeing skills.

Anyways, Bo is a great prospect and I'm glad to have him. Just trying to be realistic and not forgetful.

His hands hadn't caught up with his feet at that point though.

 

[Aqualung]

How we soon forget.

I think Kesler was a better one on one player coming out of the draft too.

Horvat trumps him in board play, hand-eye, and likely net front presence and playmaking.

Kesler was pretty damn good prospect too.

But yeah, I'm excited about the new guy too.

I remember the Kesler-stone-hands phase this boards went through around the time he was offer-sheeted.

 

[Shareefruck]

Kesler challenged NHL defense one on one from the get go in the NHL.

It's not about being touted for me, it's about seeing skills.

Anyways, Bo is a great prospect and I'm glad to have him. Just trying to be realistic and not forgetful.

When I say I don't recall, I mean I don't remember seeing the skills very much (at least not successful attempts).

I remember he completely blindsided me with how brilliant his one-on-one skills were in his first 20 goal (40 points?) year though (that was well after the offersheet)-- I remember it seemed like every goal of his was a one-man end-to-end rush that year. But again, I don't recall seeing him showcase those skills as a prospect very much.

 

[Raistlin]

How we soon forget.

I think Kesler was a better one on one player coming out of the draft too.

Horvat trumps him in board play, hand-eye, and likely net front presence and playmaking.

Kesler was pretty damn good prospect too.

But yeah, I'm excited about the new guy too.

hearing that he was considered better than/on par with Barkov by two teams, a top pick in a deep draft is also very encouraging. I'm sold on him being a NHLer already, as many mentioned, we just wonder if he can realize all of his potential.

 

[TBIF]

Maybe Arsmaster has Kesler and Stewart confused

 

[y2kcanucks]

No player has ever been harmed by playing his 18 year old season in junior.

I'd love for you to show me one.

Let alone their 19 year old seasons.

I'm also interested to hear who you think has rotted on our bench?

I'd like to see Bo get 9 games and unless he's clearly ready I'd like to see him sent back.

Look at a guy like mark Scheifele. He's played games in the NHL in 2 seasons and played out his career and he clearly improved his offensive skills by my eyes.

This season for him just has too many good development stages in place for him already.

I firmly believe Bourdon and Hodgson had much better first camps than they did subsequent camps and should have at least been given a 9 game look. They both regressed/suffered injuries that set them back in their development. Sadly we will never know what Bourdon would have become, but Hodgson hasn't yet developed into what was initially expected.

I think you and I are both on the same page with what we want for Horvat this year though.

 

[Pip]

I firmly believe Bourdon and Hodgson had much better first camps than they did subsequent camps and should have at least been given a 9 game look. They both regressed/suffered injuries that set them back in their development. Sadly we will never know what Bourdon would have become, but Hodgson hasn't yet developed into what was initially expected.

I think you and I are both on the same page with what we want for Horvat this year though.

I don't see how that relates to being sent down.

 

[arttk]

I firmly believe Bourdon and Hodgson had much better first camps than they did subsequent camps and should have at least been given a 9 game look. They both regressed/suffered injuries that set them back in their development. Sadly we will never know what Bourdon would have become, but Hodgson hasn't yet developed into what was initially expected.

I think you and I are both on the same page with what we want for Horvat this year though.

Well, for Bourdon and Hodgson, they didn't regress because of playing an extra season in junior, they regressed because of an injury which could've happened at any level. Hodgson injured himself in the offseason doing weights and Bourdon suffered a high ankle sprain ? or something like that.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Bourdon shattered his leg. Really set him back IIRC, he wasn't nearly as impressive in his second camp. He almost made the roster in his first one.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Bourdon shattered his leg. Really set him back IIRC, he wasn't nearly as impressive in his second camp. He almost made the roster in his first one.

I firmly believe Bourdon and Hodgson had much better first camps than they did subsequent camps and should have at least been given a 9 game look. They both regressed/suffered injuries that set them back in their development. Sadly we will never know what Bourdon would have become, but Hodgson hasn't yet developed into what was initially expected.

I think you and I are both on the same page with what we want for Horvat this year though.

Biggest thing that changed first to second camps was expectations.

 

[Shareefruck]

Biggest thing that changed first to second camps was expectations.

No, they legitimately regressed in their second camp, Bourdon especially.

 

[Jay Cee]

I don't recall Kesler being touted for his one on one skills until AFTER he broke out and surprised everyone, personally.

I don't recall being surprised.

I do recall hf boards talking about Kesler like he sucked and his upside was a 3rd line centre tops and his shot couldn't break a pane of glass. In the normal person world I think people saw the potential there.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I don't recall being surprised.

I do recall hf boards talking about Kesler like he sucked and his upside was a 3rd line centre tops and his shot couldn't break a pane of glass. In the normal person world I think people saw the potential there.

100% disagree with this.

This is hindsight talking because there were many people who didn't even want the Canucks to match Philly's offer.

There was absolutely no indication previous to Kesler's year with Sundin that he and Burrows were anymore than a very effective 3rd line who could kill penalties.

 

[Canucker]

100% disagree with this.

This is hindsight talking because there were many people who didn't even want the Canucks to match Philly's offer.

There was absolutely no indication previous to Kesler's year with Sundin that he and Burrows were anymore than a very effective 3rd line who could kill penalties.

100% agree with this.

All Kesler showed at that point were wheels and work ethic.

 

[VanCanFanEDM]

100% agree with this.

All Kesler showed at that point were wheels and work ethic.

I think thats being a little light... He was thought of pretty highly around the league, I would say atleast at the same level as Brandon Sutter when he was traded.. While I'll agree his scoring potential was debated he was being talked about as a possible selke guy, future captain ect..

Backes was alot less hyped..

 

[arsmaster*]

100% agree with this.

All Kesler showed at that point were wheels and work ethic.

Kesler has a 21 goal and a 25 goal season before Sundin ever came to town.

37 points and 59 point seasons.

I'll still say my favourite Kesler was the one where he popped 21 goals and 37 points in the pure shutdown role.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Kesler has a 21 goal and a 25 goal season before Sundin ever came to town.

37 points and 59 point seasons.

I'll still say my favourite Kesler was the one where he popped 21 goals and 37 points in the pure shutdown role.

......? Over the shutdown Kesler that scored 41?

 

[Shareefruck]

100% disagree with this.

This is hindsight talking because there were many people who didn't even want the Canucks to match Philly's offer.

There was absolutely no indication previous to Kesler's year with Sundin that he and Burrows were anymore than a very effective 3rd line who could kill penalties.

As the guy you were defending there, I disagree with you. Kesler had 21 goals the year before Sundin came, and that was the breakout year that I saw those one-on-one skills I was referring to. However, that was long after the offer sheet. I agree that he didn't look like he was poised to break out offensively at all WHEN he signed that offersheet, which I think was before he was even a regular 30-40 point guy.

Kesler was only a 23 point guy when he signed the offersheet. And he looked poised to become a great third liner without alot of offensive tools at that point (I think we were unanimously crossing our fingers for a Selke level 45 point guy as his peak).

I also remember him being great in the AHL during the lockout, but I don't remember seeing one-on-one skills as being his bread and butter.

 

[Taelin]

......? Over the shutdown Kesler that scored 41?

Manny was playing shutdown that year.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

......? Over the shutdown Kesler that scored 41?

I loved that he scored so many key goals that year but "No pass" Kesler of now hurts our line-up. The current Kesler does not make up an effective 2nd line (as of now). I thought Kesler in the Sundin season was far more effective as a line mate. In an ideal situation I'd say a 30 / 30 guy.

In saying all of that about Kesler, I do feel that Bo has an overall package that = Kesler. The elite level compete is there and the rest of the package is so ideal in the future. If we can get one season of having H.Sedin (still in edge of prime) / Kesler (middle prime) and / Horvat (upper end of developed) we are going to be a scary team.

 

[Shareefruck]

I loved that he scored so many key goals that year but "No pass" Kesler of now hurts our line-up. The current Kesler does not make up an effective 2nd line (as of now). I thought Kesler in the Sundin season was far more effective as a line mate. In an ideal situation I'd say a 30 / 30 guy.

In saying all of that about Kesler, I do feel that Bo has an overall package that = Kesler. The elite level compete is there and the rest of the package is so ideal in the future. If we can get one season of having H.Sedin (still in edge of prime) / Kesler (middle prime) and / Horvat (upper end of developed) we are going to be a scary team.

I think you're a little off on your timelines there. Kesler seemed to alternate back and forth between being a great one-man show and being a great team player, even early on.

To me, the picture looks like this:

2005-2007: 10 goal, 23/27 point pace Kesler (Style A)
2007-2008: 22 goal, 38 point pace Kesler (Style B)
2008-2010: 26/25 goal, 59/75 point pace Kesler (Style C)
2010-Present: 41/23/19 goal, 71/52/63 point pace (Style B again)

Style A is hands of stone defense-focused Kesler, Style B is one-man end-to-end rushing and shooting Kesler, and Style C is well-rounded playmaking Kesler.

I agree that Style C, well-rounded playmaking Kesler is a better version of Kesler than the 41 goal Selke winning one. I'd love to see him return to that.

He was a well-rounded team player who made everyone else on his line better, and was still a PK/PP wizard and Selke-level defensive player both those years from 2008-2010. He also got more points than he ever did (75), and single-handedly CARRIED that second powerplay unit, which ended up being a more productive unit than the 1st Sedin unit. I think he was the biggest reason Raymond was a 53 point player that one year

That version of Kesler turned both Raymond/Samuelsson into legitimately great second liners (they had wishy washy years every other year), and turned a struggling Demitra-Sundin line into something damn effective.

Guy was brilliant those two years (although it's hard not to love the 41 goals he scored). Ideal version of Kesler, IMO, and THAT's the one that should have been winning Selkes, as we didn't have Malhotra back then.

I think we had Wellwood, so the picture is pretty clear here-- Unlike the Selke-year he actually WAS unquestionably the go-to shutdown guy (in fact, he was the only truly defensively capable center on the team) while providing all that offense.

That version of Kesler was a monster. On top of all that, I don't recall any sort of attitude/negative reputation back then either.