Confirmed with Link: Canes Sign Lucas Wallmark to ELC

[Anton Babchuk]

IMO we could use Sutter, as a way to relieve Jordan of some of the burden of being the main shutdown and PK center all of the time. It would make us a much harder road team to play against if we were rolling the two of them all the time, to say nothing of McClement. It would also allow Jordan to take offensive zone draws without fear of throwing our matchups out of whack, which in turn would help his production and make us better offensively.

We could use Kunitz for depth, but not at that salary figure.

j stall barely killed penalties this past season

mcclement and nash/whoever are just fine to supplement stall in that regard

and it's not that sutter is useless, but that there are better allocations of money than to another shutdown c

it seems like a pointless, massive waste of money to add sutter and kunitz while sending basically zero salary back with an already very expensive forward group while at the mean time you have a defense consisting of justin faulk and several ostriches

 

[Blueline Bomber]

If we could somehow figure out how to get them to maintain their balance on the ice, a group of ostriches would make an effective defense. Those birds are mean as ****, weigh much more than they would appear to (anywhere from 250-350 pounds), and their kicks can disembowel a human with a single blow.

I don't think many hockey players would want to approach a group of them.

 

[tomdundo]

If we could somehow figure out how to get them to maintain their balance on the ice, a group of ostriches would make an effective defense. Those birds are mean as ****, weigh much more than they would appear to (anywhere from 250-350 pounds), and their kicks can disembowel a human with a single blow.

I don't think many hockey players would want to approach a group of them.

10/10 idea would read again

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Plus, we'll have the whole animal rights protection thing going for us. Any opposing player that checks an ostrich leaves himself open to an animal cruelty label.

Best shutout defense the Canes have ever had.

 

[tarheelhockey]

mcclement and nash/whoever are just fine to supplement stall in that regard

One of them, sure. But having both of them is problematic. Sutter has deficiencies but he's a step up from either Nash or McClement.

 

[Chan790]

it seems like a pointless, massive waste of money to add sutter and kunitz while sending basically zero salary back with an already very expensive forward group while at the mean time you have a defense consisting of justin faulk and several ostriches

My only reason for saying "yes" was Wallmark's a 4th round pick who has shown nothing yet...so his value is presumably a 4th round pick...and we're being offered a 4th round pick for him.

Plus we're being offered two non-negative value assets for him which we could flip immediately for other picks or assets of need. When someone wants to pay you much-better than face-value for a lottery ticket for a future drawing...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

One of them, sure. But having both of them is problematic. Sutter has deficiencies but he's a step up from either Nash or McClement.

In terms of PK, can we really say that with any degree of certainty? I realize there are a LOT of variables, including system used, other players on the ice, goaltending, etc...but the Canes PK finished the season:

4th in the NHL in PK Kill % (Pitts 3rd)
1st in the NHL in Total PP goals allowed (Pitts 10th)
2nd in NHL in total Shots allowed on PK (Pitts 28th)
7th in the NHL in Total shots allowed / min on PK (28th).

The Canes were better / #1 in more categories before shipping off Sekera and Gleason.

The goaltending SV% is why the Pens PK% was better than the Canes. Is that because they had better goaltending? or were better at limiting "good" shots? I'm sure one of the advanced stats guys have some way to try to determine that but does it really matter? Even if one accepts that Sutter is a step up over what Carolina has today on the PK, what does that buy the Canes? 1 or 2 less PP goals over the full season?

BTW, I'm not commenting on the trade proposal, just suggesting that Sutter as a PKer on the Canes doesn't seem to add much value overall.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Adding $7+ million to the payroll while not addressing the defense would be a colossal mistake. Just paying more money for the privelege of still being terrible. Yippee!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Unfortunately, the only way I see the Canes addressing the defensive situation is via drafting and developing. We don't have a lot to offer (either it has no value or we can't afford to part with it) on the trade front and I don't see the Canes solving it via free agency. Unless there's another "Sekera like" deal out there.

I was looking at the list and was surprised at how many guys, some of who played prominent roles, that are ex-Canes are on the UFA list right now. Sekera, Gleason, McBain, Bryan Allen, Bellemore, Sanguinetti, and a few guys the Canes owned the rights to and/or rarely played: Strachan, Corrente, Hillen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Speaking of Hillen, I wonder if there are any talks to re-sign him. I figured the Canes were just taking a contract back when he came over, but I recall Francis saying he's a guy they wanted. Too bad he was injured before the Canes could really get a good look at him.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Hillen is injured more than he's not. Any contract offer to him will be risky because of it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Hillen is injured more than he's not. Any contract offer to him will be risky because of it.

That's true, but I guess it depends on the term.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

whatever we do, we need to cull a few of the ostriches

 

[NotOpie]

My only reason for saying "yes" was Wallmark's a 4th round pick who has shown nothing yet...so his value is presumably a 4th round pick...and we're being offered a 4th round pick for him.

Plus we're being offered two non-negative value assets for him which we could flip immediately for other picks or assets of need. When someone wants to pay you much-better than face-value for a lottery ticket for a future drawing...

I certainly understand and I've been a fan of Sutter and think he sometimes gets a bad rap. But having said that in the "4th for a 4th" debate, I don't see why you do that. Wallmark, by all accounts, has acquitted himself very well playing with men in Sweden. In international competition, the kid is money (playing against his own age bracket). To me this is a "devil you know" type of proposition.

I don't believe we need Sutter and wouldn't want Kunitz, especially given there are other options that are likely cheaper. It is less a value discussion for me and much more of how we are structuring the team and the finances going foward. That's a lot of dough.

 

[tarheelhockey]

In terms of PK, can we really say that with any degree of certainty? ...

BTW, I'm not commenting on the trade proposal, just suggesting that Sutter as a PKer on the Canes doesn't seem to add much value overall.

No, not as a way to improve the PK, which as you pointed out was fine last year.

I mean it's problematic to have both Nash and McClement in our even strength rotation at the same time. Either of them would be above average at 4C, and it might even make sense to carry both of them as long as one can be a healthy scratch. But having one of them at 3C hurts us.

It would be nice to have a more legitimate 3C, particularly one who could take some of the ES shutdown load away from Jordan so that he could focus a bit more on the offensive side of his game. Sutter is the ideal type of player to slot into that role, especially if you move Nash down to 4C where he would be somewhat above average offensively and the LHS/RHS balance would work out nicely.

 

[DaveG]

It would have even more sense to have a legitimate #2 C and just slot Rask as the #3 (kinda)

 

[NotOpie]

It would have even more sense to have a legitimate #2 C and just slot Rask as the #3 (kinda)

Well this Pollyanna thinks Rask will solidify himself as a 2C this year.

 

[DaveG]

I hope so, and I think that's his upside for sure... have for a while now.

I still think he's a couple years off that though.

 

[What the Faulk]

This is a whole lot of discussion on a hypothetical trade that would never happen for a guy who hasn't played a single pro game, and an ex-Hurricane. The salary makes it a non-starter, but I think it's a no-brainer if that wasn't an issue.

 

[DaveG]

This is a whole lot of discussion on a hypothetical trade that would never happen for a guy who hasn't played a single pro game, and an ex-Hurricane. The salary makes it a non-starter, but I think it's a no-brainer if that wasn't an issue.

That's a bingo.

We seem to have a steal in Wallmark right now, but if we had takers ready for those pieces in place this trade is an absolute no-brainer.

Of course, if we had takers in place there's no reason Pittsburgh wouldn't have takers in place themselves.

 

[NotOpie]

That's a bingo.

We seem to have a steal in Wallmark right now, but if we had takers ready for those pieces in place this trade is an absolute no-brainer.

Of course, if we had takers in place there's no reason Pittsburgh wouldn't have takers in place themselves.

That's a double bingo...I'd have no problem with having Sutter back but he's a bit pricey for what he brings and he's gonna want to continue to get paid. I think it is more valuable for this franchise in the short term to have young, cost-controlled assets. We have had limited flexibility for a number of years due to various financial issues. It would be nice to have a few years outside of that realm.

 

[AD Skinner]

an ostrich bit me at a petting zoo when i was 8

a moose once bit my sister

 

[HisIceness]

Is it bad I thought Kunitz was a lot younger than 35? Because I did.

 

[What the Faulk]

I thought he was like 32 or 33

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No, not as a way to improve the PK, which as you pointed out was fine last year.

I mean it's problematic to have both Nash and McClement in our even strength rotation at the same time. Either of them would be above average at 4C, and it might even make sense to carry both of them as long as one can be a healthy scratch. But having one of them at 3C hurts us.

It would be nice to have a more legitimate 3C, particularly one who could take some of the ES shutdown load away from Jordan so that he could focus a bit more on the offensive side of his game. Sutter is the ideal type of player to slot into that role, especially if you move Nash down to 4C where he would be somewhat above average offensively and the LHS/RHS balance would work out nicely.

I guess it all depends on what the coaches plan for both E. Staal and Lindholm. Lindholm's game screams center to me and I still think the organization sees him there long term. And E. Staal to the wing seemed like it was a temporary thing. With the emergence of Rask, barring significant injury, I don't see a need for both Nash and McClement in the line-up (as Centers) right now. After Jordan came back, there were a number of games where neither McClement nor Nash were playing center on the 3rd line. With E.Staal, J. Staal, Lindholm, Rask, McClement/Nash and even Nestrasil, I really see no huge need for a guy like Sutter, at his price right now. Even if you assume 1 of Lindholm and E.Staal are on the wing, there still isn't a ton of room for Sutter.

IMO, the Canes more pressing needs are, first and foremost defense, and then wingers after that.