GDT: Canes Flyers Zero Effort

[HisIceness]

Its a shame we never had a quality backup for Ward when he was in his prime and thus had little choice but to play him 65 games a year. He probably wouldn't be as burnt out as he is now. Hell I'm surprised we didn't end his career doing that.

 

[AD Skinner]

Its a shame we never had a quality backup for Ward when he was in his prime and thus had little choice but to play him 65 games a year. He probably wouldn't be as burnt out as he is now. Hell I'm surprised we didn't end his career doing that.

The way he's played this year it looks like we kinda did

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The system is working so much better now. Instead of throwing it into empty corners or whipping it around the boards into the hands of the opposing team, its now finding the hands of our guys. Thanks Pastor Bill.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I don't think there is any argument there. We all (me included) want to see the team win every game they are in and develop a winning culture. I was never even debating that. I just don't like getting a "loser" point for a team that is a long shot to make the playoffs, as I personally don't think it serves any purpose right now.

You're wrong. Sorry.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You're wrong. Sorry.

How so Hank? I'd like to understand how a guy that was openly supporting tanking last year (thus your username change) is now saying loser points are a good thing? (or did I misinterpret your post? If I did, I apologize).

EDIT: BTW, if there are ancillary benefits that aren't obvious to me, I have no problem changing my position. If I thought the Canes were a good enough team to truly make a playoff run, then yes, I'd agree every point counts, I'm just not of that opinion based on what I've seen.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

We got a point. Yeah. This run is putting this franchise in the worst possible position. If RF is "forced" to hold onto these UFA's simply because we are in the hunt for a playoff spot, it will set us back about 2-3 years.

Holding onto to Gleason and Ruutu a few years ago was bad. Holding onto EStaal, Ward, and every other UFA this year will be disastrous.

 

[Cane mutiny]

We got a point. Yeah. This run is putting this franchise in the worst possible position. If RF is "forced" to hold onto these UFA's simply because we are in the hunt for a playoff spot, it will set us back about 2-3 years.

Holding onto to Gleason and Ruutu a few years ago was bad. Holding onto EStaal, Ward, and every other UFA this year will be disastrous.

I don't think he will. I'm sure he's aware we are not in the playoff hunt and get every pick and/or young prospect he can by the deadline. I think maybe Staal will be good with getting us a 1st for him and have talks about the possibility to come back at a discount to play here with Jordan. They may even agree to a deal before he goes and sign it after his playoff run. It would be to his own benefit to come back to a more talented team. Or he may not really want to play here anymore, but I think RF is to smart to make the Whitney mistake.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

How so Hank? I'd like to understand how a guy that was openly supporting tanking last year (thus your username change) is now saying loser points are a good thing? (or did I misinterpret your post? If I did, I apologize).

1. Tanking this year accomplishes nothing. The new draft rules see to that. Tanking is no longer a thing -- unless you're in a ridiculously deep draft where getting a guarantee of the 4th pick is worth losing all your games. Last year was the last year that tanking made sense.

2. The winning culture argument is a strong one for me. This team is starting to develop a new identity. Part of that identity should be fighting and clawing for every point. One day soon that will matter -- maybe sooner than we think.

3. I believe that even if this team goes on a run, Francis might *still* trade Eric Staal. Why? Because he isn't an essential piece the way he used to be. Staal is a second-line center/wing at best right now; he doesn't take over games anymore, and he's slowing down in a league that's speeding up around him. BUT: even if the unthinkable happens, and we keep Staal because we're in a wildcard spot in March, we'll have two first round picks this year instead of three. I think that's pretty good.

4. Ward isn't a valuable enough trade asset anyway. If we got anything more than a 4th for him, I'd be shocked. If he gets hot and we go on a run, fine. If we go cold and trade him, fine. It's kind of whatever now.

5. We want more fans in the building. Exciting hockey will do that. The hope of a playoff run, however slim, will do that.

It's December 15th, and the team is playing good hockey. I'm not willing to give up on the playoffs before the new year starts. Not this year.

 

[Brock Anton]

Stupid cap dump Skinner.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Hell, I'll take the point simply because losing in OT is better than losing in regulation. The only exception would be in the archaic draft lottery rules, but since they no longer apply, they're not worth worrying about.

The team has earned 9 out of the past 12 points, and their only loss in regulation was against one of the best teams in the league. And even that required Ward ******** the bed in the first, and Lack ******** the bed in the final 30 seconds.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

1. Tanking this year accomplishes nothing. The new draft rules see to that. Tanking is no longer a thing -- unless you're in a ridiculously deep draft where getting a guarantee of the 4th pick is worth losing all your games. Last year was the last year that tanking made sense.

Fair enough. To be clear though, I wasn't advocating tanking last year, nor am I this year.

2. The winning culture argument is a strong one for me. This team is starting to develop a new identity. Part of that identity should be fighting and clawing for every point. One day soon that will matter -- maybe sooner than we think.

I agree with that. I felt that mattered even last year as well, which is why I was inquiring about why your view was different this year. As I said, I still want them to win every game they play. I'm probably underestimating the impact of the loser point on this, so you bring up a fair point. I was looking at it as "they still lost the game so that doesn't help with the winning culture", but as you said, there is probably still some benefit there scratching for a point that I am underestimating.

3. I believe that even if this team goes on a run, Francis might *still* trade Eric Staal. Why? Because he isn't an essential piece the way he used to be. Staal is a second-line center/wing at best right now; he doesn't take over games anymore, and he's slowing down in a league that's speeding up around him.

I hope you are right re: Staal on this one.

We want more fans in the building. Exciting hockey will do that. The hope of a playoff run, however slim, will do that.

It's December 15th, and the team is playing good hockey. I'm not willing to give up on the playoffs before the new year starts. Not this year.

Of course that's your prerogative to hold out hope, but it doesn't make it "wrong" for someone to have a different view on the team's chances. The chances aren't zero, but they are damn slim and only Columbus has statistically a worse chance than the Canes. Their goaltending is still terrible.

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL.html

Anyhow, I've enjoyed watching them over the past 5-6 games for the part as it's been some of the more exciting hockey in a while. I'll always root for them to win every game they are in. I'm still not sold on the benefits of getting a loser point when I think they aren't going to make the playoffs (but I hope I'm proven wrong), but you make some fair points about it.

 

[NotOpie]

Only 7/10? I'm not sure what you mean. This team isn't that good and if they could have more stretches of 7/10 points, we wouldn't be having a lot of the conversations we have.

And 9 points in our last 6 games....doesn't that translate to something like a 116 point season? Regardless this team is playing its best hockey and is fun to watch, mostly because Skinner.

Edit: Actually over an entire season that would be a 123 point pace. Right now we have 29 points and if we played at the 9 points in 6 games pace the rest of the season (yes it is a pipe dream) we'd end up with 105 points. Now as an English major that whole math thing remains foreign to me, but I did use my rudimentary spreadsheet skills to come up with that calculation.

 

[NotOpie]

We got a point. Yeah. This run is putting this franchise in the worst possible position. If RF is "forced" to hold onto these UFA's simply because we are in the hunt for a playoff spot, it will set us back about 2-3 years.

Holding onto to Gleason and Ruutu a few years ago was bad. Holding onto EStaal, Ward, and every other UFA this year will be disastrous.

There will be no holding on to Ward....unless Cam goes on something like a 10 game winning streak with a sub 2.00 GAA, we'll be lucky to even get a meaningless pick for him.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Of course that's your prerogative to hold out hope, but it doesn't make it "wrong" for someone to have a different view on the team's chances. The chances aren't zero, but they are damn slim and only Columbus has statistically a worse chance than the Canes. Their goaltending is still terrible.

You're right, and I'm not saying the Canes have a good chance. They don't. But we both agree that the team has a non-zero chance, and so long as that's the case, points matter. Teams get hot, and goalies get hot, even bad ones. This *might* be a team that could gain some confidence and go on a winning streak to put themselves in the mix. It happens all the time.

And a thing to note about Sportsclubstats this early in the year: their numbers are wildly variable. The Canucks loss to Minnesota yesterday dropped their chances by 12%. Really? A single game in December, out of an 82-game season? If the Canes go on a 5-game winning streak -- which is unlikely, but not impossible -- their chances go up to about 20%.

All Is Not Yet Lost. (But it probably is.)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Fair enough. I guess the past 5 years of being a Canes fan have conditioned me to expect the worst, hope for the best. Although I'm sure it wasn't his own quote, but my Dad always used to say "Disappointment is really a mismatch between reality and expectations."

Anyhow, regardless of playoffs or not, if they keep playing entertaining and competitive hockey like they have recently, I'll just try to enjoy the ride.

 

[Unsustainable]

The playoffs seem like a distant memory anymore

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So I watched that OT goal again, and real time, I thought Rask lost the puck or tried to drop it back for Liles, but after watching it again, Skinner tried a pass to the middle for Rask which the Flyers poke checked which started the rush the other way. Also, if you watch the 2-1, Skinner stopped skating on the back check which left Gostisbehere open for the easy shot. Not sure if he could have caught him anyway, but looks like he could have taken 2 more strides and tied him up.

Liles played the 2-1 pretty poorly also. He didn't do much at all to take away the pass or even make it a difficult pass.

From the 3-4 times I've seen him play, Goshisbehere seems to be everything we'd want Ryan Murphy to be. I realize it's a small sample.

 

[Joe McGrath]

So I watched that OT goal again, and real time, I thought Rask lost the puck or tried to drop it back for Liles, but after watching it again, Skinner tried a pass to the middle for Rask which the Flyers poke checked which started the rush the other way. Also, if you watch the 2-1, Skinner stopped skating on the back check which left Gostisbehere open for the easy shot. Not sure if he could have caught him anyway, but looks like he could have taken 2 more strides and tied him up.

Liles played the 2-1 pretty poorly also. He didn't do much at all to take away the pass or even make it a difficult pass.

From the 3-4 times I've seen him play, Goshisbehere seems to be everything we'd want Ryan Murphy to be. I realize it's a small sample.

Interestingly, Ghost is older than Murphy.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Interestingly, Ghost is older than Murphy.

I think you are mistaken, they are pretty much the same age, but Murphy is 20 days older.

Ryan Murphy: 3/31/93
Shayne Gostisbehere: 4/20/93

 

[Joe McGrath]

I can't do math.

Edit: I knew Murphy was 22.

Thought 2015-1993 was 23 for Ghost because I'm dumb. Also, I'm an accountant.

 

[bleedgreen]

Glad to see skinner prove to everyone nothing has really changed other than he's smarter and more mature.

Hate to see it wasted on another bad season. I'm fine with them getting every point they can. I'm assuming it won't be enough and all the ufa's go, and we get whatever it is that's out there for them.

I'm really curious about Jstaal. I've never believed he needs his bro here to play here, but you never know and RF might not love that contract for low offensive production. I think he's a valuable player but maybe not the right guy for this team on that contract. I wouldn't be upset if he stayed, and don't want him gone unless we get back something shiny and pretty.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Also, if you watch the 2-1, Skinner stopped skating on the back check which left Gostisbehere open for the easy shot. Not sure if he could have caught him anyway, but looks like he could have taken 2 more strides and tied him up.

Yeah. I saw that too. I was a little disappointed; I thought he could have caught up there, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[RodTheBawd]

Skinner is either ice cold or on flipping fire. There is no in between

Even prior to his current streak, this season has been my favorite to watch Skinner other than his rookie year. It was inevitable some of those shots would start making their way in.

Well, when the proud and curious people of Pennsylvania spend time on this board, I'll worry about it.

Although I do agree. When I lived in Philly people were proud of their Tastykakes and Wawa.

Fun fact: I'm banned from a Wawa in South Jersey.
And Tastykakes are phenomenal.

1. Tanking this year accomplishes nothing. The new draft rules see to that. Tanking is no longer a thing -- unless you're in a ridiculously deep draft where getting a guarantee of the 4th pick is worth losing all your games. Last year was the last year that tanking made sense.

2. The winning culture argument is a strong one for me. This team is starting to develop a new identity. Part of that identity should be fighting and clawing for every point. One day soon that will matter -- maybe sooner than we think.

3. I believe that even if this team goes on a run, Francis might *still* trade Eric Staal. Why? Because he isn't an essential piece the way he used to be. Staal is a second-line center/wing at best right now; he doesn't take over games anymore, and he's slowing down in a league that's speeding up around him. BUT: even if the unthinkable happens, and we keep Staal because we're in a wildcard spot in March, we'll have two first round picks this year instead of three. I think that's pretty good.

4. Ward isn't a valuable enough trade asset anyway. If we got anything more than a 4th for him, I'd be shocked. If he gets hot and we go on a run, fine. If we go cold and trade him, fine. It's kind of whatever now.

5. We want more fans in the building. Exciting hockey will do that. The hope of a playoff run, however slim, will do that.

It's December 15th, and the team is playing good hockey. I'm not willing to give up on the playoffs before the new year starts. Not this year.

I'm often at odds with you, but I agree with everything in this post.

Also, can Eric just never be the guy carrying the puck into the o-zone? I'd rather he just dump it than carry it in and turn it over every single ****ing time.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm often at odds with you...

I wouldn't say that's true.

Tastykakes are phenomenal.

Tastykakes are obviously ****ing garbage, and people only eat them when they're high.