Post-Game Talk: Canes d. Pens, the Kevin Pollock circus sideshow

[cheesedanish87]

Have you even been watching the games? The other teams are doing nothing different. Like somebody said above, your explanation does not pass the eye test.

Yes, i watch the pens and i watch plenty of other NHL games, i see missed calls every game.

The refs aren't out to get the pens, your starting to sound like the fans of the opposing teams that always blame the refs when they play against the pens.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Except when the Pens are down. We never get reffing the score calls. Last night a prime example.

We were never down more than a goal though. We get reffing the score calls before when we're down a few, like any other team. We just don't get down a few very often, because we're a pretty good team.

I know I'm late to the Kunitz hatefest, but I just wanted to mention again how terrible he is playing right now. Absolutely no effort at all. He loses every 50/50 battle and is just floating around in circles. I should probably stop honing in on his play because it's making me really angry.

It's really being exposed now that we're down a couple forwards too. Disgusting work ethic. Like, Ryan Whitney towards the end here bad.

I know he's a slow starter, but this is unacceptable.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Yes, i watch the pens and i watch plenty of other NHL games, i see missed calls every game.

The refs aren't out to get the pens, your starting to sound like the fans of the opposing teams that always blame the refs when they play against the pens.

1.8 pp's for per game and 3.1 pp's against per game over the last 9 for the Penguins which is very strange considering the Penguins typically possess the puck more then the opposition. During that time we have seen missed calls like Boychuk on Malkin, Leafs holding sticks/covering the puck with their hand, Malkin being hooked all the way up the ice... Normally I'd agree with your explanation that opponents are trying to avoid penalties but it is at odds with what I have observed.

 

[Koempel]

Not being able to watch games live lately (combination of job and living in Europe) I would like to ask if Kunitz looks either lazy or done. Groin troubles have been mentioned and could definitely be a reason for a steep decline in quality of play...but I suppose he would have been rested by now if he had any continuous groin problems.

 

[ColePens]

Not being able to watch games live lately (combination of job and living in Europe) I would like to ask if Kunitz looks either lazy or done. Groin troubles have been mentioned and could definitely be a reason for a steep decline in quality of play...but I suppose he would have been rested by now if he had any continuous groin problems.

Completely lazy and groin issues would make perfect sense. I hate making excuses, but it has to be an injury. I don't think I've ever seen a player drop off like that.

He's not moving his legs at all. So if he's injured - he needs to sit.

 

[cheesedanish87]

1.8 pp's for per game and 3.1 pp's against per game over the last 9 for the Penguins which is very strange considering the Penguins typically possess the puck more then the opposition. During that time we have seen missed calls like Boychuk on Malkin, Leafs holding sticks/covering the puck with their hand, Malkin being hooked all the way up the ice... Normally I'd agree with your explanation that opponents are trying to avoid penalties but it is at odds with what I have observed.

Missed calls happen every game to every team.

Like i said caps have less pp time then the pens and there possession stats are similar.

And the refs aren't out to get the caps either.

 

[Shady Machine]

Not being able to watch games live lately (combination of job and living in Europe) I would like to ask if Kunitz looks either lazy or done. Groin troubles have been mentioned and could definitely be a reason for a steep decline in quality of play...but I suppose he would have been rested by now if he had any continuous groin problems.

It's hard to say. It looks like he's not trying and is just being lazy. If that's related to an injury than sit the dude. He isn't helping anyone out there right now. Plays are dying on his stick the majority of the time too.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think actual in game stuff really can get you in trouble with the refs.
I don't believe theres a larger bias against Sid league wide. He does have to quit the yapping and just play the damn game. Last night was a great example of how effective Sid is at working the refs to get that next call. He's just not very good at it, folks. Let the coaches work the refs. They have a softer voice.

The other major thing in the lack of PP's is the Pens' drop in possession numbers(pointed out to me by @GunnerStaal). They just don't have the supporting cast outside Sid/Geno to sustain their early numbers. Add to that Dupuis/Bennett going down and it's gonna be even less. Gotta have the puck to draw PP's.

 

[Shady Machine]

Missed calls happen every game to every team.

Like i said caps have less pp time then the pens and there possession stats are similar.

And the refs aren't out to get the caps either.

Okay but you still didn't answer the question. Why are the Penguin's PP's going down so much? I'm not into conspiracy theories, but that's a pretty big drop off. It certainly seems like the threshold for what's a penalty against the Pens has gone up.

 

[Al Smith]

Not being able to watch games live lately (combination of job and living in Europe) I would like to ask if Kunitz looks either lazy or done. Groin troubles have been mentioned and could definitely be a reason for a steep decline in quality of play...but I suppose he would have been rested by now if he had any continuous groin problems.

Probably a combination of the two, but much more done than lazy IMO. It's been the same since the Olympics.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The Penguins Fenwick for percentage from the beginning of the year to November 15th was 54.8%, third best in the NHL.

Since that game the Penguins Fenwick for percentage is 45.18%, 25th overall in the league during that time frame.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan...ason-Penguins-Cant-Draw-Power-Plays/177/64389

 

[cheesedanish87]

Okay but you still didn't answer the question. Why are the Penguin's PP's going down so much? I'm not into conspiracy theories, but that's a pretty big drop off. It certainly seems like the threshold for what's a penalty against the Pens has gone up.

I answered it in post number 217.

Do you also think the refs are out to get the pens?

 

[mpp9]

It's hard to say. It looks like he's not trying and is just being lazy. If that's related to an injury than sit the dude. He isn't helping anyone out there right now. Plays are dying on his stick the majority of the time too.

I'm hoping they're playing him just b/c we don't really have any other options. Megna is still figuring out how to play at this level. Beyond him, we have a bunch of borderline NHL players. Sitting Kunitz takes Sutter back to the trash he was playing with last year as well.

I just hope they do the right thing when this team has better forward depth.

 

[mpp9]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan...ason-Penguins-Cant-Draw-Power-Plays/177/64389

Yep. Our lack of support around Sid and Geno is the reason we're not getting calls. They're the only two who can draw them.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

It's hard to say. It looks like he's not trying and is just being lazy. If that's related to an injury than sit the dude. He isn't helping anyone out there right now. Plays are dying on his stick the majority of the time too.

I remember one situation from last night where he was actually sprinting all the way from pretty much the goal line in the defensive zone to the offensive zone and I thought, maybe he's starting to turn a corner. Unfortunately, that was pretty much the only situation where he looked like he gave a ****.



Something that's unrelated to Kunitz (or is it?): Do you think that we might be just gassed? Several practices/game-day skates have been cancelled lately and Johnston said it's due to the "volume of games". That, together with the reports that his drills are much harder than Bylsma's, could this have become a factor in the last games?

 

[Al Smith]

Okay but you still didn't answer the question. Why are the Penguin's PP's going down so much? I'm not into conspiracy theories, but that's a pretty big drop off. It certainly seems like the threshold for what's a penalty against the Pens has gone up.

They're going down because teams are being more diligent in not taking penalties and because the refs aren't going to give the Pens a lot of PP unless and until they come back to the pack in conversion rate. The even up mentality is just in the DNA of the refs.

Last night I thought I was asleep and having a DPE nightmare.

 

[Al Smith]

I remember one situation from last night where he was actually sprinting all the way from pretty much the goal line in the defensive zone to the offensive zone and I thought, maybe he's starting to turn a corner. Unfortunately, that was pretty much the only situation where he looked like he gave a ****.

Yeah, I remember that too. That's a shame one sprint up the ice is memorable.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Kunitz has nothing to worry about. He CAN play like this cuz he knows he has a guarenteed spot in the top 6. Wanna see if it's laziness? Drop him to the 3rd and 4th lines and promote a Downie or Megna.

Can't healthy scratch him though cuz we're pretty thin on the wings right now.

 

[Shady Machine]

I answered it in post number 217.

Do you also think the refs are out to get the pens?

No I don't. However, I do think the refs try, subconsciously or otherwise, to limit their effect on the game. The Penguin's PP was damn near automatic, winning them games early on, so it isn't far fetched to believe that the refs have tried to limit the penalties called to try to make games more competitive. Again, it doesn't have to be a conscious decision, but they are human and for the sake of "fairness" they may change what is a penalty to fit the particular game. It's really just inconsistency and human error.

An example would be last night. The Canes were angry about the Pen's first goal call because Sid was in the crease impeding Ward from sliding over to try and make a save. I think that's a 50/50 call either way but it went the Pen's way. So the refs then called a ticky tacky goalie interference penalty against Sid in the 3rd to make up for it. Then the Pen's get two other penalties (deserved) but the Canes can drape over Geno's back in the neutral zone and no call.

By trying to make the games fair, they end up hurting the games in the long run. Additionally, I do think there is often a bias against star players. The first 5 times Malkin or Crosby skate through 3 guys and get hauled down, it's a penalty. Then the rules change because you can't keep calling penalties against the same players. Well, you can and you should, but that's not the way it works.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Okay but you still didn't answer the question. Why are the Penguin's PP's going down so much? I'm not into conspiracy theories, but that's a pretty big drop off. It certainly seems like the threshold for what's a penalty against the Pens has gone up.

There's a simple answer that isn't a conspiracy theory. Wait for it. The refs are incompetent. Teams get away with crap, this team does as well. There's no way only 3 (?) penalties, 1 for 2 (?) against, occur in an NHL game, not if the actual rules are enforced the entire time. Somehow they're also bad with calling soft penalties or ones where nothing wrong actually happened. Players and teams know it so they all take liberties, it's a calculated risk that the refs won't do anything.

The Pens have a dangerous PP and are going through a lazy streak, it's a bad combination in this league. The reffing in this league is a joke that needs to be fixed.

Something that's unrelated to Kunitz (or is it?): Do you think that we might be just gassed? Several practices/game-day skates have been cancelled lately and Johnston said it's due to the "volume of games". That, together with the reports that his drills are much harder than Bylsma's, could this have become a factor in the last games?

If they're gassed that's a fitness problem. If anything it might be some mental fatigue from learning a new system, learning new teammates and undoing bad habits.

I think they've been cancelling practices to compensate for the schedule and rough games once or twice, if it's because the team is gassed there's a problem.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No I don't. However, I do think the refs try, subconsciously or otherwise, to limit their effect on the game. The Penguin's PP was damn near automatic, winning them games early on, so it isn't far fetched to believe that the refs have tried to limit the penalties called to try to make games more competitive. Again, it doesn't have to be a conscious decision, but they are human and for the sake of "fairness" they may change what is a penalty to fit the particular game. It's really just inconsistency and human error.

An example would be last night. The Canes were angry about the Pen's first goal call because Sid was in the crease impeding Ward from sliding over to try and make a save. I think that's a 50/50 call either way but it went the Pen's way. So the refs then called a ticky tacky goalie interference penalty against Sid in the 3rd to make up for it. Then the Pen's get two other penalties (deserved) but the Canes can drape over Geno's back in the neutral zone and no call.

By trying to make the games fair, they end up hurting the games in the long run. Additionally, I do think there is often a bias against star players. The first 5 times Malkin or Crosby skate through 3 guys and get hauled down, it's a penalty. Then the rules change because you can't keep calling penalties against the same players. Well, you can and you should, but that's not the way it works.

Get the call the first three times hauled down in a game? I haven't looked it up but i doubt that Sid has drawn many penalties in a long time if at all this year let alone three times in a game. You likely could count the calls he drew in the last month on one hand with fingers left over.

 

[madinsomniac]

Post holiday hockey should be banned... Team played like it was hungover and the refs were still drunk...lol

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

For the record I don't think the refs are out to get the Penguins, I think subconsciously they are hesitant to put the Pens pp on the ice because of how dangerous it is. All this talk about how opponents are trying to avoid penalties yet with my eyes I have not seen other teams hooking or holding any less then they were earlier in the year. I just don't see it.

There was a play last night where a Hurricanes defenseman was starting the breakout by skating around the net. A Penguins forechecker was chasing him. The other Canes d literally threw a body check on the Penguins forechecker right in front of the ref. No call. That isn't a team being careful not to take a penalty, that is a ref deciding not to call a penalty where there should have been one.

 

[wej20]

Megna really struggled on his off wing I thought, pretty much everyone was putrid though.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Another thing I thought I noticed and just verified, the Penguins got the first penalty of the game in 8 out of the last 10 games. That seems like a lot, especially since we're actually pretty good in the first period of games.