Can you guys settle a stupid argument for me?

[Frk It]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quincey's skating isn't really an issue currently? Like it's not great or even good, but I don't see him get skated around too often. Maybe it's because his gap is good. Nothing like Ericsson who gets beat wide all the time, at least.

 

[19 for president]

They are both about equal. It all depends on your team need. Smith can play like a #3 or be as bad as a scratch. Quincey is a pretty solid 4/5. Smith is all about skating, and offensive potential. Q is all about D, and can't pass to save his life. Neither are great dman, but both are NHL dman, so again it just depends on what your team needs. If you need skating, a little more offensive, physicality then Smith is your guy. Quincey is a bit grittier and a true defensive dman.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Smith not by much

Now if it's kings Quincey. Then it's pretty easy

 

[HIFE]

Goals, assists, points, contract, eye test.

When Brendan Smith is 35 years old and a 3rd pairing guy in the AHL there will still be people around here talking about how he's on the verge of a breakout season and how the latest obscure and devoid of context advanced stats show he's as good as Erik Karlsson.

LOL that is a good one. He's reminding me more of Lashoff, a guy who was close but just can't put it together- and that's ok. Personally I've developed a soft spot for Smith and any spectator can't deny he has his flashes of excellence, like as said when he carries the puck up ice in what I would call a very powerful manner.

Quincey I can't believe people are STILL defending and propping up his ability. The ****er is gone thank goodness! [mod].

His skating is horrific to watch I don't know if it's the skate guards he started wearing or what but he looks like one of the most awkward gumpy players in the NHL. He was so "solid" and spectacular for the Wings why doesn't he have a conrtact yet? Because he blows. I'm shocked Blabcrock hasn't signed him, he plays so "heavy". Can't do anything special up or down the ice- passing, making plays, a simple move at the blueline for a quick shot, nothing. I don't remember him doing anything other than dumping the puck. What would we expect, he is the king of dump. Quincey's defensive game consisted of smashing opponents sticks until the puck came loose or he took a slashing penalty. When Quincey did score last season it was the biggest joke he and the entire team are laughing because Quincey and his game is a laughingstock.

I don't know whether to laugh or feel pity for Sens fans debating the possibility of Quincey or Smith. It's not a question of who's better but who's worse.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

LOL that is a good one. He's reminding me more of Lashoff, a guy who was close but just can't put it together- and that's ok. Personally I've developed a soft spot for Smith and any spectator can't deny he has his flashes of excellence, like as said when he carries the puck up ice in what I would call a very powerful manner.

Quincey I can't believe people are STILL defending and propping up his ability. The ****er is gone thank goodness! Q sucks balls. His skating is horrific to watch I don't know if it's the skate guards he started wearing or what but he looks like one of the most awkward gumpy players in the NHL. He was so "solid" and spectacular for the Wings why doesn't he have a conrtact yet? Because he blows. I'm shocked Blabcrock hasn't signed him, he plays so "heavy". Can't do anything special up or down the ice- passing, making plays, a simple move at the blueline for a quick shot, nothing. I don't remember him doing anything other than dumping the puck. What would we expect, he is the king of dump. Quincey's defensive game consisted of smashing opponents sticks until the puck came loose or he took a slashing penalty. When Quincey did score last season it was the biggest joke he and the entire team are laughing because Quincey and his game is a laughingstock.

I don't know whether to laugh or feel pity for Sens fans debating the possibility of Quincey or Smith. It's not a question of who's better but who's worse.

There were 2-3 skaters worse then Quincey lol. He doesn't have a contract because we have a bigger plug. I hope you know who that is

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Quincey's been the better player for 2+ years now and I don't really see anything to suggest that that's going to suddenly change in the next couple of seasons.

Smith's flashes of potential are so far and few between than they remain just that - flashes.

I'd say I'm pretty shocked that this poll is this close, but I'm not. People love the idea of a ceiling. Both Babcock and Blashill seemed to agree who the the better player was though.

 

[steafo]

I don't get what Smith people are watching anymore? Was his first couple years that bad that they burned his mistakes in your memory? I don't think he's good by any means but I think he can do what Quincey does at this point with some potential to provide offense. He's been pigeon holed in a role he isn't meant to play. He has probably stopped developing due to this to be honest. I don't think he's leaps and bounds better than Quincey but he is more versatile as far as I'm concerned.

Also spare me the he doesn't get powerplay time because he hasn't earned it routine

We are a team that consistently rolled out Helm in a top 6 role last year and gave Glendening top 9 minutes. Our organization definitely has favorites and also has the whipping boys (Hudler...) and so do the fans. I admit I didn't like Quincey when we re-signed him I thought it was terrible. But he turned out to be the most stable defensive dman we have behind Dekeyser.

I doubt Smith provides anything to the wings because we will continue to try to make him something he's not. With Powerplay time and a different team I think he can be a 30 point guy pretty easily.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't get what Smith people are watching anymore? Was his first couple years that bad that they burned his mistakes in your memory? I don't think he's good by any means but I think he can do what Quincey does at this point with some potential to provide offense. He's been pigeon holed in a role he isn't meant to play. He has probably stopped developing due to this to be honest. I don't think he's leaps and bounds better than Quincey but he is more versatile as far as I'm concerned.

Also spare me the he doesn't get powerplay time because he hasn't earned it routine

We are a team that consistently rolled out Helm in a top 6 role last year and gave Glendening top 9 minutes. Our organization definitely has favorites and also has the whipping boys (Hudler...) and so do the fans. I admit I didn't like Quincey when we re-signed him I thought it was terrible. But he turned out to be the most stable defensive dman we have behind Dekeyser.

I doubt Smith provides anything to the wings because we will continue to try to make him something he's not. With Powerplay time and a different team I think he can be a 30 point guy pretty easily.

Well then both Blashill and Holland should be fired. Because Holland spent $6 mil a year for three years to go get Green when he had a guy on his roster at $3.2 who could apparently put up the same numbers if he was utilized correctly and given PP time.

Smith is definitely more talented than Quincey but has never put it together on a consistent basis. It's not that I'm remembering the screw ups of his first few seasons, I'm just not overvaluing the couple times he rushes the puck up ice.

He's not as bad as Kindl but there seems to be a Kindl-effect with Smith. People still think he'll get better in spite of being 27 years old and having been in the league for years. With Kindl it was Babcock not utilizing but he'd do better when he gets a fresh start with Blashill. Look how that worked out.

Smith is what he is. Flashes of talent that the Wings loved when they drafted him, but not enough hockey sense to put it together consistently.

Q is nothing that special but he's a stable NHL defenseman who can play a 4/5 role and be used in all situations.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Well then both Blashill and Holland should be fired. Because Holland spent $6 mil a year for three years to go get Green when he had a guy on his roster at $3.2 who could apparently put up the same numbers if he was utilized correctly and given PP time.

Smith is definitely more talented than Quincey but has never put it together on a consistent basis. It's not that I'm remembering the screw ups of his first few seasons, I'm just not overvaluing the couple times he rushes the puck up ice.

He's not as bad as Kindl but there seems to be a Kindl-effect with Smith. People still think he'll get better in spite of being 27 years old and having been in the league for years. With Kindl it was Babcock not utilizing but he'd do better when he gets a fresh start with Blashill. Look how that worked out.

Smith is what he is. Flashes of talent that the Wings loved when they drafted him, but not enough hockey sense to put it together consistently.

Q is nothing that special but he's a stable NHL defenseman who can play a 4/5 role and be used in all situations.

Couple of things here:

Spending $6 mil on Green was for a lot more than his ability on the PP. Green is a high quality defenseman that we really needed. I think you're reaching here.

Secondly, Smith put up a damn consistent performance this past season imo. Consistently good. Unlike Quincey who is consistently average, and an absolute black hole in terms of possession.

Smith has shown positive growth (albeit slow) in every season since he's turned pro. He hasn't developed into what we hoped but he had a pretty stellar season in terms of eye test and statistics. He's a guy who is probably best suited for the bottom-pair but has the ability to play up and down the lineup with talent. The Smith-Green pairing was by far the best we had, though they were sheltered more.

And in response to that last statement. If Q is anywhere close to your top-four you probably suck. I see him as a #6, limited at ES and lots of PK time. If anyone can be used in all situations between the two, it's Smith. Quincey is as one-dimensional as it gets.

 

[njx9]

Goals, assists, points, contract, eye test.

When Brendan Smith is 35 years old and a 3rd pairing guy in the AHL there will still be people around here talking about how he's on the verge of a breakout season and how the latest obscure and devoid of context advanced stats show he's as good as Erik Karlsson.

Smith had 5 fewer goals in 15 fewer games averaging 4 fewer minutes of ice time per game (with only about 1:30 of that coming short-handed), compared to Dekeyser. He had the exact same number of assists (and, obviously, 5 fewer points at just about exactly the same PPG production). His contract is essentially a one year deal, at a lower rate than every defender not named Marchenko. If you, as I expect, want to play the OZS/DZS game, I'd expect some quantifiable reason why that overrides the massive ice time edge, and GP edge, in terms of the demonstrably false assertion you originally made.

Alternately, you could just admit you were wrong and cut out the nasty hyperbole (who here has thrown out a SINGLE out of context advanced stat? Why even make that assertion when it's again, demonstrably untrue?).

 

[XO]

between a rock and a hard place..

 

[Tatar]

Smith has moments when he plays where he can make a slick move, throw the puck up the ice and get an assist, you start to think oh ok maybe he's starting to show that 1st round potential. Next shift he throws the puck blindly in front of his own net to the opposing team and they score.

Quincey isn't as good but he's consistantly mediocre.

So I'd have to go Quincey.

Also still sitting here wondering why we traded a first for him to come back to the Wings.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Couple of things here:

Spending $6 mil on Green was for a lot more than his ability on the PP. Green is a high quality defenseman that we really needed. I think you're reaching here.

It's not far of a reach. My point was refuting the statement that better utilization of Smith would magically turn him into a 30 point guy. I never said Holland spent $6 mill on Green solely because of his PP.

Secondly, Smith put up a damn consistent performance this past season imo. Consistently good. Unlike Quincey who is consistently average, and an absolute black hole in terms of possession.

Agree to disagree.

Quincey was the more consistent of the two, though unspectacular. And Smith played almost 2 minutes less of ES TOI and Total TOI compared to Quincey, so he was asked to do less.

Smith has shown positive growth (albeit slow) in every season since he's turned pro. He hasn't developed into what we hoped but he had a pretty stellar season in terms of eye test and statistics. He's a guy who is probably best suited for the bottom-pair but has the ability to play up and down the lineup with talent. The Smith-Green pairing was by far the best we had, though they were sheltered more.

Stellar season? This feels like a case where a few advanced stats are misrepresenting what he's actually doing on the ice.

That pairing looked good because they were the most sheltered. Green started in the O-zone 70.8% of the time (highest in the NHL) with Smith next at 61.3%. Compared to Quincey at 47.1%

Smith has stabilized some but I don't buy into him still having much potential left.

And in response to that last statement. If Q is anywhere close to your top-four you probably suck. I see him as a #6, limited at ES and lots of PK time. If anyone can be used in all situations between the two, it's Smith. Quincey is as one-dimensional as it gets.

Quincey as a #4 would be fine on a lot of teams. The Wings problem is they have a slew of 4/5/6 guys.

Sure you can use Smith in every situation but there's a greater chance the puck will end up in your own net. I'm in no way claiming Q is great but he's solid. His problem used to be that he would play a stretch of 20 games and look really good, then forget how to play hockey for the next 10 but he's really improved in that regard the last few seasons.

 

[lomekian]

I think Smith is one of those guys who talent wise is a number 3 or 4 d-man, but in terms of thinking the game is a number 7. If he had the same luxury of being paired with Lids as worse players before him (not Rafalski or Murphy obviously!) we'd all be thinking he was a half-decent top pairing guy. Because he's got the raw talent to keep up with better players, but needs to have someone who can do a certain amount of the thinking for him. No coincidence that alongside Green or Kronner he looks like a top 4 guy more often than not, but when paired with Quincey or Ericsson or other similar decent but limited 4-6 guys, his lack of consistent smarts gets badly exposed.

KQ on the other hand can be trusted to do a decent job as a 4/5/6 if with a competent partner who can skate (Q isn't bad skater, he's just not a good one either), and he has a shot better than you'd expect for someone who is a bad passer, but unlike Smith he can't elevate his game beyond that.

Both are ok. Neither is worth making long term plans around. As has been said, it depends on need. Smith is younger and is better suited for modern transitioning defence, so gets my vote. But given the wings set-up for the last 4 years (which I hope they change from), Quincey is the better fit for the team.

 

[Martinez]

What % did Quincey start in the d zone? And what % did smith? Who had the tougher match ups?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Am I the only one that thinks that Quincey's skating isn't really an issue currently? Like it's not great or even good, but I don't see him get skated around too often. Maybe it's because his gap is good. Nothing like Ericsson who gets beat wide all the time, at least.

I don't discount him actually being smart on some of the penalties. But Quincey knows when he is beat and that is why he takes a lot of them. Not all of them are bad in this regard. I think his skating has dropped off since the bone-spurs which is understandable.

He gets beat wide a decent amount and when he wonders out to the circles or down to the corners he gets beat badly for inside position as he tries to recover.

Q is a more natural replacement for Methot, but I also think he benefits from the fact DeKeyser was basically his personal babysitter and his lack of passing might frustrate his more offensively inclined teammates. Quincey handles the puck like a grenade and throws it into his teammates in very tough spots.

I prefer Smith, especially in Blashill's preferred system which I hope he sticks to more this year.

 

[BinCookin]

Well this certainly is a close poll huh.

Lets just say your "debate" on the Sens board is simply mirrored here! LOL

 

[Marky9er]

If it's obscure stats: Smith because he faces sheltered opposition.

If it is hockey that you can stand to watch with your eyes: Quincey ainec.

If it is salary based: you probably have better options in the AHL

 

[odin1981]

What % did Quincey start in the d zone? And what % did smith? Who had the tougher match ups?

KFQ did. He was often paired with ddk and drew the most d-zone coverage by %. Also two def-dmen will never look good corsi wise when paired together. He also when with DDK was consistently paired against top 3/6 forward lines.

KFQ isn't bad at what he does. It is just he will not look stellar on a d when he is the #3 on ability. He is a very good vet that isn't near the age regression that is best served in a #4/5 slot. But this team is 2 top 4 d short off a top 4 so .

 

[Winger98]

If it's obscure stats: Smith because he faces sheltered opposition.

If it is hockey that you can stand to watch with your eyes: Quincey ainec.

If it is salary based: you probably have better options in the AHL

I disagree with this. I don't argue that Quincey is by far the safer option, but he's just as painful to watch, imo. Most of our blueline are migraines waiting to happen.

 

[TheMule93]

Lmfao. 46-45 is the poll, so much for settling their little argument

 

[jolly roger]

Lmfao. 46-45 is the poll, so much for settling their little argument

This was a ridiculous poll anyway.

 

[redwings25]

sproul and ouellet over smith. kfq is a solid third pairing guy, smith is a dumpster fire that will burn his own team more than anything. let the kids play until they prove they cant.

 

[Eggberto]

So two years ago before Quincey was resigned in the off-season he was likely the worst defenseman I had ever seen. He never did anything productive with the puck, and he was constantly out of posiyion defensively. It was sad. I was so sure he would resign I bet my friend that if he was resigned I wouldn't watch them for the entire season otherwise I'd have to fork over cash. I made it a solid 2/3 of the way through that season. I do not like Quincey as a defenseman.

That said he was far from our worst defenseman last year... That has more to do with how awful Erroricson and the rest of our defense is than anything else. He was serviceable at least.

I hated Smith and Quincey as they were a pairing together. It was disastrous. Smith is prone to brain facts, and he'll show you flashes in the offensive zone of almost making something happen... The problem is he never does.

Gun to my head I'd rather have Smith. Ideally I'd rather have neither.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

^ Yes, I think people are forgetting just how INSANELY bad Quincey was for a stretch. Like, flabbergasting how utterly terrible he was.

Smith was never that bad, ever.