Can you guys settle a stupid argument for me?

[BonkTastic]

It's the offseason, and there's a stupid argument right now between a very small handful of HFSens posters, because it's the offseason and we have stupid arguments during the offseason.

If you had to choose one of Kyle Quincey or Brendan Smith to keep for the next 2-3 years, under the following circumstances:

a) they are both at the same salary and term, and
b) ignoring injury history/ "injury bug" (Quincey here, obviously)

... who do you take? I mean, purely from a hockey perspective, if all else is equal.


Thanks guys.

Click to read more...

 

[Martinez]

Quincey is a solid defensive defenseman. Smith might finally be putting it together. For the next 2-3 years I'm taking Quincey due to beard.

 

[Uchiha]

Nice way of putting your own little conditions on this.

 

[BonkTastic]

Nice way of putting your own little conditions on this.

^ This is the person we're having an argument on HFSens with, by the way. Thanks for stopping in, Uch. I'm impressed it took you less than 20 minutes to scour HFBoards and find this.

Didn't post the poll for you, chum... more just to put my mind at ease that I wasn't crazy for wanting Quincey over Smith.

I was asking Red Wings fans what THEY thought. I already know what you think. I wanted an unbiased opinion from people who have seen these two guys in person more than we have.

 

[Claypool]

They both bring different skills. Smith is more offensive and, if given the opportunity for significant playing time in a top-four role and on the power play, could flourish. He's still very much a liability defensively, though. Quincy is a solid third-pair guy. Throws hits every now and again and is more reliable in his own zone. However, he's a black hole on offense. Really, it depends what you're looking for.

 

[Bench]

I've wanted both off the roster for awhile, so I'm not a great person to ask.

If I had to pick, I think you're safer with Quincey. Smith, on the other hand, well there's always hope he'll "put it together." I could swing either way depending on my mood.

 

[Winger98]

yeah, there needs to be a neither option here. Each will kill you in different ways, it's just a question of what death you would prefer.

I'd probably take Smith, just because I'd rather get burned while trying to put the puck in the net.

 

[needzmoarcleary]

Hmm if Smith can "put it together" him. KFQ actually hasn't been awful. I'd prefer neither tho haha.

 

[BinCookin]

To be honest, our D are actually getting worse by letting Quincey walk.
People disappointed in Quincey mostly hate the guy cause we traded a first round pick for him. The last 2 years he played really solid for us. Yes he has no real offensive game, but he is solid defensively and uses his body well. He also makes few(ish) mistakes. Overall he is a solid player. BUT... we payed him too much money, he made too much money, so no team can ever give their player a pay cut. This is when they have to move. Is he worth 4+ Mil. No. But he is worth 3-3.5Mil. Yes. Overall I like Quincey.

Smith is our own prospect who has shown flashes of brilliance and heart especially in a few of our playoff drives (hes like the claude lemeiux of defensemen in the playoffs). Smith has lots of skills people like.. but hey, so did Kindl. Overall though Smith is liked on our board by some posters due to "potential"? What farking potential. Hes basically a Veteran now. He makes the most brain farts of any player on the team, and I know i statistically counted them. He makes more mistakes than Ericsson (our whipping boy). Overall Smith is much more affordable. His offensive game is better than Quincey, but with his production that is not saying much. Visually he looks like he should be better, statistically he isn't that good. Bottom line is Smith is a bottom pairing guy #5/6 and I do not think he will ever be better than this. Quincey is a #4 guy.

Quincey is clearly the better player.
We didn't resign Quincey because, well he makes too much money and pay cuts are hard (players never stay for a paycut).
Smith is basically our worst D man. I think some fancy stat guys like to quote numbers every now and then. I don't trust these stats much at all. Just says hes doing a good job as a #6. His numbers would be much different in Quincey's role (top 4).

 

[Vladdy84]

Smith, AINEC

 

[TheMule93]

Smith due to his much more physical style of play, and his willingness to stand up for his teammates

What a weird poll though, coming from another fanbase haha

 

[BinCookin]

Smith, AINEC

no matter which side of the fence you land on... AINEC is not something i would say for these 2 players.

 

[Ezekial]

Smith I'd say, but it's not too far off. To say AINEC is a pretty bold statement. They're different types of players.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Tough call, Smith is more mobile and can beat the fore check with his feet on occasion, but Q controls gaps better and has much better defensive awareness in the defensive zone. Neither can pass the puck worth a damn but Smith will transport it. You could say that Q manages the puck better but that is only because Smith will pass it to the stick of the fore checker whereas Q will bank it off the glass to god knows who. I see Smith as being better in the offensive zone due to mobility, but I do think Q has always gotten his shot off very, very quickly.

The Wings made the right decision in keeping Smith. He is probably the only player that got better under Blashill.

 

[BonkTastic]

What a weird poll though, coming from another fanbase haha

Yes, I fully admit to this.

It pretty much went like this:

Step 1) Someone on our boards said "We should target Brendan Smith to replace Marc Methot if we lose Methot to Las Vegas in the Expansion Draft", and I was like "Woah, slow down there, Smith doesn't replace Marc Methot, they're nothing alike, and Methot is just flat out better" (no offence, Wings fans).

Step 2) earlier in the thread I'd also suggested we look at Quincey as a 3rd pairing guy for us on a 2-year deal, with the idea that since we'll probably lose Methot, it'd be nice to have a guy on our 3rd pair with experience who can step in and play 2nd pair minutes in a pinch, as insurance.

Step 3) It very quickly became a "Who's better: Quincey or Smith" debate (though, hopefully, neither as a replacement for Methot), because that's HFBoards in a nutshell, and despite liking Quincey more, I figured I'd ask you guys just in case my eyes were deceiving me. It was more for my peace of mind than anything else.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Smith, easily.

 

[PelagicJoe]

KFQ has been more consistent, in my opinion. Smith I have bashed often in the past. He looked good in the playoffs last year. I guess one could say Smith still has a higher ceiling. Here's to hoping he's a late bloomer.

 

[Frk It]

Tough call, Smith is more mobile and can beat the fore check with his feet on occasion, but Q controls gaps better and has much better defensive awareness in the defensive zone. Neither can pass the puck worth a damn but Smith will transport it. You could say that Q manages the puck better but that is only because Smith will pass it to the stick of the fore checker whereas Q will bank it off the glass to god knows who. I see Smith as being better in the offensive zone due to mobility, but I do think Q has always gotten his shot off very, very quickly.

This is pretty much spot on. I will point out that I don't think Smith is a great passer per se, but Quincey puts pucks in forward's skates waaaay more often. Smith ices the puck a decent amount with some erratic passes, but Quincey can't even make simple short passes consistently on the tape.

Also, Smith is the best d men we have at zone entries.

Quincey is easily better in his end, party I think due to the fact that Smith isn't even really interested in defending.

 

[jkutswings]

Very different styles, but on a short-term deal, Smith has both the lower floor and the higher ceiling. Depends on what type of defenseman you're after, and how much you're willing to gamble.

 

[Z40]

Yes, I fully admit to this.

It pretty much went like this:

Step 1) Someone on our boards said "We should target Brendan Smith to replace Marc Methot if we lose Methot to Las Vegas in the Expansion Draft", and I was like "Woah, slow down there, Smith doesn't replace Marc Methot, they're nothing alike, and Methot is just flat out better" (no offence, Wings fans).

Step 2) earlier in the thread I'd also suggested we look at Quincey as a 3rd pairing guy for us on a 2-year deal, with the idea that since we'll probably lose Methot, it'd be nice to have a guy on our 3rd pair with experience who can step in and play 2nd pair minutes in a pinch, as insurance.

Step 3) It very quickly became a "Who's better: Quincey or Smith" debate (though, hopefully, neither as a replacement for Methot), because that's HFBoards in a nutshell, and despite liking Quincey more, I figured I'd ask you guys just in case my eyes were deceiving me. It was more for my peace of mind than anything else.

BinCookin's assessment is pretty accurate. It sounds like Quincey would fit your need best. He just happens to be a FA.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I would easily keep Quincey over Smith if they had the same salary and term. I'd also rather keep Quincey at 3-4 million than Smith at 2.

Quincey has been a solid defensive d-man for about 2+ seasons now, part of our best shutdown pairing together with Dekeyser. Can PK, doesn't make many big mistakes, has some physical play to his game.

Smith has yet to show he can even truly be a legit NHLer. Other than glimpses of solid play (such as a 5-game playoff series) he's never been more than a #5-6 that frustrates due to lack of production offensively and tendency to lose his head and take stupid penalties or make big giveaways at important moments.

Only people who value advanced stats over everything else would take Smith over Quincey. I think overall guys like Quincey tend to get underrated because you only notice them when they make a mistake, and guys like Smith get overrated because some kind of hidden potential is valued higher than the actual on-ice performance over several seasons. But both Mike Babcock and Jeff Blashill played Quincey much more than Smith, which should give you a hint as to who the better player is.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Quincey is a survivable NHL defensive defenseman. He never contributes offense and his passing in general leaves much to be desired. Still he's steady and not someone you really have to worry about on the ice. Smith on the other hand has flashes of greatness and flashes of absolute idiocy. He never really got the chance to play his game because every time he makes a mistake he rides the bench...and he makes a lot of mistakes. Personally I prefer Smith just because I hate watching boring hockey and I think Smith still has potential to put it together...but Quincey is the better player, especially in a vaccuum.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I went with Smith, Quincey was very solid when he was paired with Dan DeKeyser. I think if given a chance Smith could still show some potential.

 

[Winger98]

I would easily keep Quincey over Smith if they had the same salary and term. I'd also rather keep Quincey at 3-4 million than Smith at 2.

Quincey has been a solid defensive d-man for about 2+ seasons now, part of our best shutdown pairing together with Dekeyser. Can PK, doesn't make many big mistakes, has some physical play to his game.

Smith has yet to show he can even truly be a legit NHLer. Other than glimpses of solid play (such as a 5-game playoff series) he's never been more than a #5-6 that frustrates due to lack of production offensively and tendency to lose his head and take stupid penalties or make big giveaways at important moments.

Only people who value advanced stats over everything else would take Smith over Quincey. I think overall guys like Quincey tend to get underrated because you only notice them when they make a mistake, and guys like Smith get overrated because some kind of hidden potential is valued higher than the actual on-ice performance over several seasons. But both Mike Babcock and Jeff Blashill played Quincey much more than Smith, which should give you a hint as to who the better player is.

I don't think it helps Quincey's case on this board that he's been a big part of a blueline that hasn't been able to move the puck to save its life for quite awhile now. On a blueline like the sens he might find a better niche. Here I think a lot of us (myself included) just want to see something different because what we have hasn't been working.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

]I don't think it helps Quincey's case on this board that he's been a big part of a blueline that hasn't been able to move the puck [/B]to save its life for quite awhile now. On a blueline like the sens he might find a better niche. Here I think a lot of us (myself included) just want to see something different because what we have hasn't been working.

But Q is a big part of that reason. The only real above average passers of the puck we have are Marchenko and Kronner. DD does a good job moving it with his feet but as a pure passer of the puck is probably average by NHL standards. Q is very, very slow to make reads with the puck on his stick and stops moving his feet as soon as he receives the puck (which is the kiss of death for puck movement if you really pay attention). I don't think moving him to a new system will radically change this.