Can we compete for the cup

[odin1981]

This year no. Next year and after for 2-3 years (until Dats calls it quits) yes. Then a year or two of getting Larkin and AA up to speed to fill in at the #2 center position but once they are used to the NHL the window could open again. However the important part of this is we need the Xo's, Marchenko's, and Jensen's to get exp and games in now to start the acclimatization to the NHL level of play. Our organization needs to get the kids exp from NHL games to grow as players to take the next step forward.

One of the reasons are ES scoring is down is due to this year has been more of a top 6 and bottom 6 team. While nowhere near as Pejorative Slured as the cleary and sammy days as fixtures in our top 12. They need to get back to a top 9 bottom 3 forward approach. We have the depth of forwards in the system.

Last year at times Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco or Tats-Shea-Nyquist where feasting on 3rd pairing d's as our third line. We have the depth in the system to have a similar situation now and going forward. The reason given the salary cap driven world you need a continuity of RFA talent coming in to keep the third forward line filled to take advantage of teams bottom defensive pairings. While these players mature like Tats and Nyquist have you move them up to top 6 lines to weather the degredation of veteran top 6 talent. In a cap world you cannot afford to have a top 6 consisting of nothing but UFA contracts. Your cap will become to top 6 heavy and many holes will appear elsewhere.

By giving the best scouting and developmental organization time to work there magic like we have for damn near a 1/4 of a century in prospect development we can plug holes and create value for players who in there long term view are not who we keep so we can trade for any specific organizational holes that appear.

 

[14ari13]

I think you only have to look as far back as last season to answer this question:

The Rangers made it to the finals.

If the question is, as you have said,

"Can we compete for the cup
this season, or the next 3?"

The answer would be yes, because I guess technically competing for the Cup could be as simple as just making the playoffs, or maybe it could be as specific as meaning being in the finals, and I believe Detroit has the ability to do both of those things.

Did the Rangers make it or Lunquist?
We have seen elite/hot goalies carrying their team.

Want to beat Detroit in the playoffs? Right now play trap, clutch and grab the amount allowed in the playoffs, and don't take any boneheaded penalties. The Wings in this scenario would have to beat teams 1-0 or 2-1, and it's hard to believe that they can do that with the scoring, defense and goaltending they have right now.

Hitchcock said we were the best team they had played at their barn. Cooper called the team to beat.
Now our record vs our division is quite worrisome.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still elite players though.

Long past their prime.

Which I think this team is capable of.

Our record vs Habs, Bruins and Bolts is not impressive.

I don't see a real gain, either, except maybe on the blueline where the kids will hopefully upgrade half of it. Hopefully. I think we're going to be a good team that's going to require some bounces and help (such as just the right matchups) to make any real noise in the playoffs.

Are our prospects and young players so good?

 

[14ari13]

For sure, and I don't know if this team will have a blueline as established as ours was in our Cup years (obviously not going to have a single player as good as Lidstrom) or even the Hawks or whoever won with a fairly average goalie while we still have Datsyuk and Zetterberg as spry as they are, or even if they will both be on the team.



But, the time to worry about this has passed. I don't mean to be calling you out specifically ari, but these were the discussions we had post 2009 finals when Holland sat on his hands while teams like Chicago and Boston were obviously passing us. Seems like a weird time to be down about missing our window with Z and D, when it should've happened in those 2010 and 2011 seasons when we still had Nick as well. Holland sat on almost $10M of open cap space one of those seasons after Rafalski retired and had basically pure bandaid signings for the next several seasons. The criticism of that lack of action by Holland was the majority of the board's content during those seasons... but now that the team is actually getting good and young, you're down on the direction of the team. I don't really follow the logic here.

I try to figure out Holland's logic.
I think Holland thought we needed experienced players to win the cup and he was signing Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Cleary ...
And it did not work.
Then he turned to the young players and now it seems we Are on the rise.
As I stated before, I do not understand why Holland has not added a Dman. I do not think adding one at the trade deadline will work.

As for signing FAs. We know, or we should know, you do not build a cup winner through FAs. Rangers tried in year after year in the '90s and it did not work.

 

[TimoneX]

Holland was bridging with those older players until the young guns were ready to take over. Without those vets the Wings were unlikely to maintain their playoff appearance streak(and the associated revenue) and as we've all seen...when the playoffs start, anything can happen.

There's not a FA Dman to add that makes the team significantly better. Possibly Yandle...if he's actually available, but if he could be had at anything approaching a reasonable pricetag then he wouldn't be available. Seems like PHO/AZ has been dangling Yandle forever. Maybe in the summer you go after Green hard for a significant upgrade on the blueline, but for myself I do not want to see KH give up assets for a marginal upgrade on the 3rd pairing.

We're likely looking at the team now...and it's pretty good. It's not a favorite to win the cup, but it's definitely competitive.

 

[DanZ]

Long past their prime.

Yet they are still elite players.

Our record vs Habs, Bruins and Bolts is not impressive.

Our record was great against the Bruins last season. Doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[Overclass*]

I am not sure if Hfboard's red wings forum could compete for a cup.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

This year? No...our D is too inconsistent when it matters the most. Can they make a decent playoff run this year? Possibly. There are still a few changes that need to be made on D and with some older vets to be cut loose to give other youngsters more time and experience before a cup run.

 

[T Low]

Yesterday, even though we won, Chicago still exposed us as a great big non contender.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

I think we can. Even with this roster. Yeah, a defensive upgrade would be ideal but teams have won it with less.

Like someone mentioned, the biggest thing to me right now is experience for our younger players.

I still think we get 2-3 years (after this year) of a stellar Zetterberg. Datsyuk could be going home before then, who knows. The fact that they're still 1 and 2 on our stat sheet is nothing short of amazing.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

Yesterday, even though we won, Chicago still exposed us as a great big non contender.

Okay.. Using this logic.. Does Montreal losing to Ottawa make them any less of a contender?

 

[DanZ]

Okay.. Using this logic.. Does Montreal losing to Ottawa make them any less of a contender?

You must win every game otherwise you aren't a contender.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

I mean.. LA is struggling for a playoff spot. But if they get in, they automatically become a serious contender.

 

[Frk It]

I mean.. LA is struggling for a playoff spot. But if they get in, they automatically become a serious contender.

What's that have to do with us? We haven't won 2 Cups in the last 3 years. And what do you expect when a team has won 2 Cups in the last 3 years?

 

[Frk It]

To answer the question posed by the OP, I have no idea. But I'm excited to see what happens. I think we can make it out of the 1st, which is a step in the right direction.

 

[Heaton]

Yes, trying to use any regular season game as evidence really doesn't serve much purpose. What is needed is always exposed in the post season, if regular season was a true measuring stick, the Kings wouldn't have won their two cups.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

This thread makes me laugh. We're right in there with 7 other teams that are all roughly equal. We all have the same number of points, but we have critical weaknesses that eliminate us from contention, but the other teams don't?

Go read other teams forums. Montreal are being carried by Price and can't score. Pittsburgh have no wingers and MAF waiting for his annual choke etc etc.

Every team has holes.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

What's that have to do with us? We haven't won 2 Cups in the last 3 years. And what do you expect when a team has won 2 Cups in the last 3 years?

Maybe you should look at the post I was responding to.........

He said Chicago made us look like a non contender yesterday. My point was that anyone can do it once they're in.

 

[TimoneX]

Maybe you should look at the post I was responding to.........

He said Chicago made us look like a non contender yesterday. My point was that anyone can do it once they're in.

Chicago did make Detroit's skaters look like non-contenders for 25mins or so. Fortunately Howard looked like a match for any keeper in the league during that time.

Once the cavalry arrived I thought the Wings matched up well with the Hawks. A hallmark of a contender is to be able to find ways to win and Detroit has shown that ability throughout this season.

Peeps are extremely bi-polar on the Intertubz.

 

[fjantnick]

ofcourse we can... you remember LA last year, don't you?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

ofcourse we can... you remember LA last year, don't you?

Much better team with better metrics. LA, contrary to their regular season record and Quick's middling regular season performances since 2012, has been the toast of the league.


Regardless, the gap between TB, NYI, Mon, Det, Pit, NYR, and Bos are all fairly small, anything could happen at this point. Definitely need a better puck moving top 4 defenseman though.

 

[14ari13]

Forwards

Well, it is our strength.
Datsyuk, Z, Tatat, Nyquist, Franzen, Helm, Abdelkader, Weiss, Sheanen, Glendening, Miller, Jurco, Andersson seem like the best line group in the league. Or top 3.

Dreger hijacked this thread though.

 

[TimoneX]

This board is bipolar.

Wings just beat the chiggenhawks in their own barn...so yeah the Wings can hang with anyone.

Course if they lose to a desperate Stars team 2nite then the sky will be falling again and prevailing wisdom will be that the Wings never leave the 1st round again.

 

[InsaneBanana]

LOOOL.

I'm a Wings fan, but our main line ups are too old, small and slow. We get easily exposed in the neutral zone by fast teams.