Proposal: Can the Penguins land Staal and Ferland?

[chethejet]

GMJR went all in to win a third cup last year. But that was a hard thing to do and giving up those assets of Cole Reaves, picks and the goalie was about as much as the Pens could do. Pens simply don't have the assets here change the dynamic. Brassard should go but the return will not come close to last year. es moving Oleksiak at the TDL or potentially Olli will be and should be a off season move.

 

[Andy P]

There is a rumor out of pittsburgh insider that there is a 3 team trade in the talks of pitt/clb/car involving the following players:

To Pitt: Ferland
To CLB: brassard
To Car: 2019 1st (pitt), 2019 2nd (clb)

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I think Brassard would be an add-on for a Ferland deal. Doubt he would have much value to Carolina as a pending UFA, but if PIT is looking to get some cap space to help with a different move for a C I can see Carolina taking him as part of the deal. I doubt adding Brassard changes the price for Ferland that much, though.

That last sentence is ridiculous. Brassard has much more value than most think. People do realize that Brassard had 40 5v5 points last year and Ferland getting top line time only has 16 points 5v5 in 41 games this season.

People put way too much weight on half season production either way (bad or good). GM’s don’t do that, they realize that a players production can be a product of their environment and role they are given. For example Brassard who is used to getting top 6 time plays behind Crosby and Malkin and is getting significantly less time than he is used to and a different assignment than normal for him and his production is not his norm.

Ferland is in the exact opposite position in that he is getting top line duty and PP time and his production is up. GM’s still realize the value of each player and don’t just look at half season production. The values or Brassard and Ferland as rentals are much closer than people think. Honestly maybe more. If they had Brassard as part of the deal they could trade him for a 1st. To say Brassard doesn’t change the price much is just ridiculous. The hype on Ferland is way over the top.

 

[Ugene Magic]

There is a rumor out of pittsburgh insider that there is a 3 team trade in the talks of pitt/clb/car involving the following players:

To Pitt: Ferland
To CLB: brassard
To Car: 2019 1st (pitt), 2019 2nd (clb)

That's very bad for the Pens.

They give up Brassard and a 1st for Ferland? Brassard should pull in a 1st and prospect himself.

Columbus only paying a 2nd for Brassard?

I'd much rather try to do Ferland and Faulk if the Pens are giving up two grade A assets.

The Pens will need to add of course.

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk
To Columbus: Brassard
To Carolina: Maatta, Columbus 1st 2020, Pitt(Buffalo's) 4th 2019, Columbus 3rd 2019

 

[Andy P]

That's very bad for the Pens.

They give up Brassard and a 1st for Ferland? Brassard should pull in a 1st and prospect himself.

Columbus only paying a 2nd for Brassard?

I'd much rather try to do Ferland and Faulk if the Pens are giving up two grade A assets.

The Pens will need to add of course.

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk
To Columbus: Brassard
To Carolina: Maatta, Columbus 1st 2020, Pitt(Buffalo's) 4th 2019, Columbus 3rd 2019

I didn’t quiet like the trade either, I think the pens could get a little bit more for that

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

There is a rumor out of pittsburgh insider that there is a 3 team trade in the talks of pitt/clb/car involving the following players:

To Pitt: Ferland
To CLB: brassard
To Car: 2019 1st (pitt), 2019 2nd (clb)

I don’t see the Pens doing that deal. Brassard could get a 1st by himself so I can’t see the Pens paying that high a price for Ferland plus helping out Jackets. Ferland is not worth Brassard and a 1st that is just ridiculous overpayment. Both are rentals and Brassard has been the much more productive player even last year. All of a sudden Ferland has 16 5v5 points in 41 games and he is worth Brassard and a 1st? Brassard just had 40 5v5 points last year. Give Brassard Ferland’s top line assignment instead of playing 3rd line behind Crosby and Malkin and all of a sudden these players are reversed or at the very least equal. Way too much hype on this guy.

 

[MinJaBen]

The Pens will need to add of course.

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk
To Columbus: Brassard
To Carolina: Maatta, Columbus 1st 2020, Pitt(Buffalo's) 4th 2019, Columbus 3rd 2019

Switch Maatta with Pittsburgh’s 1st and we are close.

 

[wej20]

Switch Maatta with Pittsburgh’s 1st and we are close.

Pens can't add a dmen without moving one.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Pens can't add a dmen without moving one.

Maatta appears to be the feature piece in that deal (listed first) but we have absolutely no use for him.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I didn’t quiet like the trade either, I think the pens could get a little bit more for that

Probably right. It's making up for the difference in cap I was trying to do, but Maatta is younger and has two more years.

 

[Andy P]

Pens can't add a dmen without moving one.

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk, Riley Nash
To CLB: brassard
To Car: Maatta, 2019 1st (pitt), Oleksiak, Hallander, 2019 2nd (clb)

 

[MinJaBen]

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk, Riley Nash
To CLB: brassard
To Car: Maatta, 2019 1st (pitt), Oleksiak, Hallander, 2019 2nd (clb)

We really really don’t want a defenseman back at any level. That has negative value for us. If a defender has to come to us to make it work, we’ll find someone else to trade with.

 

[wej20]

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk, Riley Nash
To CLB: brassard
To Car: Maatta, 2019 1st (pitt), Oleksiak, Hallander, 2019 2nd (clb)

Don't think Carolina wants any more defenseman either. Don't want Riley Nash, we've got Riley Sheahan to fill the overpaid 4th line centre named Riley role and at least his contract expires at the end of the season.

 

[Andy P]

We really really don’t want a defenseman back at any level. That has negative value for us. If a defender has to come to us to make it work, we’ll find someone else to trade with.

Prolly right it would be a great luxury to have Faulk play on the bottom pairing I’m just not a fan of defenseman playing on their backhand, with Nash.. I honestly don’t know how good he even is I just don’t know who their going to fill on that 3rd line

 

[Ugene Magic]

Maatta appears to be the feature piece in that deal (listed first) but we have absolutely no use for him.

Yeah, I'm looking right now.

I don't know, doesn't seem like either team needs Maatta.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Prolly right it would be a great luxury to have Faulk play on the bottom pairing I’m just not a fan of defenseman playing on their backhand, with Nash.. I honestly don’t know how good he even is I just don’t know who their going to fill on that 3rd line

Faulk would be playing the R-side and he's a R-shot.

It's really not a luxury to have 3 R-side/R-shot players.

That's the way it should be on both sides.

 

[Andy P]

Faulk would be playing the R-side and he's a R-shot.

It's really not a luxury to have 3 R-side/R-shot players.

That's the way it should be on both sides.

Faulk would be playing the R-side and he's a R-shot.

It's really not a luxury to have 3 R-side/R-shot players.

That's the way it should be on both sides.

Receiving the puck on their back hand I mean, instead of having riikola Johnson or Oleksiak playing right side having Faulk there would be better

 

[Ugene Magic]

Receiving the puck on their back hand I mean, instead of having riikola Johnson or Oleksiak playing right side having Faulk there would be better

I'm pretty sure that's what I'm saying. I think we are on the same page.

 

[drewjenks]

I guess I’m wondering why Carolina is interested in that poor of an offer, and also retaining on Staal

Not a fan of either team but that's not a poor deal.

Hallander = 2nd (2018)
Brassard = could be flipped for a 2nd (he's better than Plekanec)
Jarry = could be flipped for a 2nd or 3rd at worst (he's only 23 years old)

Stall & Ferland are basically getting you:

1st (2019)
2nd (2018)
2nd (2019)
2nd (2019)
2nd (2019)

Not bad .... considering one is a UFA (with a 41 point career high) & the other is over 30 (and hasn't reached 50 points in 6 years).

Plus you save $10,000,000 in cap space (Ferland would cost $5,000,000 if you can keep him & you save $5,000,000 on Staal).

 

[Chrispy]

That last sentence is ridiculous. Brassard has much more value than most think. People do realize that Brassard had 40 5v5 points last year and Ferland getting top line time only has 16 points 5v5 in 41 games this season.

People put way too much weight on half season production either way (bad or good). GM’s don’t do that, they realize that a players production can be a product of their environment and role they are given. For example Brassard who is used to getting top 6 time plays behind Crosby and Malkin and is getting significantly less time than he is used to and a different assignment than normal for him and his production is not his norm.

Ferland is in the exact opposite position in that he is getting top line duty and PP time and his production is up. GM’s still realize the value of each player and don’t just look at half season production. The values or Brassard and Ferland as rentals are much closer than people think. Honestly maybe more. If they had Brassard as part of the deal they could trade him for a 1st. To say Brassard changes the price much is just ridiculous. The hype on Ferland is way over the top.

Brassard may have value in general, but I don't see Carolina interested in trying to flip him instead of just dealing Ferland for picks and/or prospects. That's what I mean when I say Brassard won't drop Ferland's cost that much: it's not what Carolina is looking for if they are dealing Ferland.

I won't argue that Brassard can get value, but I don't see Carolina valuing him highly. Better to just get a better package elsewhere than try to flip Brassard after acquiring him.

If Carolina were to somehow get into a better position to make a playoff push and still think they can't sign Ferland, that deal looks much better.

 

[ESH]

If we have to retain on Staal I think we’d keep him.

Ferland alone is fetching a first and a prospect. Jarry doesn’t really move the needle.

I could see Staal for Brassard. I think the Canes will get a better offer for Ferland than what Pitt can offer, but you never know.

Why tho

 

[Empoleon8771]

Brassard may have value in general, but I don't see Carolina interested in trying to flip him instead of just dealing Ferland for picks and/or prospects. That's what I mean when I say Brassard won't drop Ferland's cost that much: it's not what Carolina is looking for if they are dealing Ferland.

I won't argue that Brassard can get value, but I don't see Carolina valuing him highly. Better to just get a better package elsewhere than try to flip Brassard after acquiring him.

If Carolina were to somehow get into a better position to make a playoff push and still think they can't sign Ferland, that deal looks much better.

Something I thought about yesterday, Carolina could likely get better value for Brassard than the Penguins could. The Penguins would be picky about who they'd trade him too, because they wouldn't want to trade him to a team that they'd have to play (probably a Western conference team). A team like Columbus would be out of the question at that point. But for Carolina, why does that matter? I think there would be a wider market because Carolina wouldn't have that self-imposed market, which would logically give them a better return.

That isn't a justification for them doing the swap, I just think they'd likely get a better return for Brassard than the Penguins would. A lot of the teams linked to Brassard so far have been Western teams (Colorado, Dallas, Winnipeg and Minnesota are the big ones, with Nashville thrown around some too), but there have been Eastern teams linked to Brassard as well (insiders have said Columbus and Boston, Buffalo and the Islanders are other logical options).

 

[Chan790]

That's very bad for the Pens.

They give up Brassard and a 1st for Ferland? Brassard should pull in a 1st and prospect himself.

Columbus only paying a 2nd for Brassard?

I'd much rather try to do Ferland and Faulk if the Pens are giving up two grade A assets.

The Pens will need to add of course.

To Pitt: Ferland, Faulk
To Columbus: Brassard
To Carolina: Maatta, Columbus 1st 2020, Pitt(Buffalo's) 4th 2019, Columbus 3rd 2019

That's no good for Carolina.

No Maatta. (Dealbreaker possibly--no defensemen to CAR.) Needs a 2019 1st and less "mid-draft stuff" and later-year picks.

 

[bleedgreen]

Why tho

It’s been reported that’s what they’re asking for and it’s been reported there’s more than a couple of teams interested which suggests that they will get at least close to what they’re asking for. All speculation of course, and I don’t want him traded at all. I wish they’d resign him.

 

[OCPenguin]

Carolina trades Staal @ 5 million, and Ferland

Pittsburgh trades Brassard, Jarry, Hallander, 2019 1st, and 2019 2nd


Brassard gives the canes a top 6 center to replace Staal, they can either try to sign him long term or flip him for more assets. Hallander was a 2nd rounder last year and is a promising center prospect which fills a need for the canes. Jarry is a good and cheap 1B option that could potentially take over the starting job. The 1st and 2nd are required for the guys being traded.

The penguins lose their best forward prospect, along with their top 2 picks. This can be justified because Staal still has 3-4 more years of solid play in him, which is likely the extent of our cup window anyways, and would likely block Hallander from developing. We also have a strong need for a defensive 3C and a gritty forward like Ferland. Pitt would have to shed a little more salary for this deal to happen but I think JR could easily find a deal for Oleksiak.

Brass+Jarry+1st for Staal retained was discussed in other threads but I just expanded that idea. Thoughts?

Why do we want a third line center making that much money. This is a pass. Foolish idea.