Proposal: Can the Penguins land Staal and Ferland?

[domaug]

IMO the only interesting pieces here for the Canes are Pens 1st and Brassard. Jarry is not any better than Nedeljkovic who already needs his own shot. I watched Hallander somewhat closely at the WJC as I had him in my pool and wasn't impressed at all. Canes can't/won't retain for 4 more years. New owner Dundon is as cheap as the last one.

Ferland for Pens 1st seems like a deal that could eventually get done. I think the Canes will want a 1st specifically and the only teams regularly trading those away are teams in the prime of their Cup windows like PIT. Ferland would look great next to Crosby or Malkin. I'd be excited as a Pens fan to have Ferland in the Playoffs.

as a Pens fan I'd try to talk them away from the 1st round pick but if that's what it takes to get him and not see him land with another rival, I would do it.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Could the Pens do this? Maybe.

Should they? Nope. I'm down for Ferland but I don't see the need for a $5mil 3C, which is Staal will ever be. He wasnt happy being behind sid and geno before. He wanted a bigger role. He still wont get that here. Putting aside the cap stupidity that it will create.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I mean...I'm sure there's some sort of crazy math that could be done to make it happen.

Should it happen, on the other hand, is an easier answer: no.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IMO the only interesting pieces here for the Canes are Pens 1st and Brassard. Jarry is not any better than Nedeljkovic who already needs his own shot. I watched Hallander somewhat closely at the WJC as I had him in my pool and wasn't impressed at all. Canes can't/won't retain for 4 more years. New owner Dundon is as cheap as the last one.

Ferland for Pens 1st seems like a deal that could eventually get done. I think the Canes will want a 1st specifically and the only teams regularly trading those away are teams in the prime of their Cup windows like PIT. Ferland would look great next to Crosby or Malkin. I'd be excited as a Pens fan to have Ferland in the Playoffs.

LeBrun threw out the idea of Brassard for Ferland last night on Insider Trading. If the Penguins acquire a 3C in a different trade, I think you could definitely see something like that making sense. Brassard would be a great fit in Carolina if the Canes are willing to use Staal like a defensive forward.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

LeBrun threw out the idea of Brassard for Ferland last night on Insider Trading. If the Penguins acquire a 3C in a different trade, I think you could definitely see something like that making sense. Brassard would be a great fit in Carolina if the Canes are willing to use Staal like a defensive forward.

Having Brassard and Staal I don’t think is an option for us. We need someone better.

Moving Ferland for another impending ufa doesn’t make any sense for us either.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Having Brassard and Staal I don’t think is an option for us. We need someone better.

Moving Ferland for another impending ufa doesn’t make any sense for us either.

Why would they need someone better? Isn't Aho Carolina's 1st? I would imagine that they'd use Staal as a defensive middle-6 center and Brassard as an offensive middle-6 center, I don't think that is weak at all from your 2C and 3C.

 

[GoldiFox]

LeBrun threw out the idea of Brassard for Ferland last night on Insider Trading. If the Penguins acquire a 3C in a different trade, I think you could definitely see something like that making sense. Brassard would be a great fit in Carolina if the Canes are willing to use Staal like a defensive forward.

Ferland will be traded for assets that help long-term. Brassard is a pending UFA and the Canes season is effectively over. If the Canes are interested then they can talk to him in Free Agency. Judging by the Ferland contract discussions, the Canes are not in a position to overpay to keep a guy who knows he has many options in Free Agency.

Figuring out some deal to swap Staal for Brassard is a different animal. That is more about freeing Cap space than acquiring Brassard for the Canes.

 

[Chrispy]

Ferland will be traded for assets that help long-term. Brassard is a pending UFA and the Canes season is effectively over. If the Canes are interested then they can talk to him in Free Agency. Judging by the Ferland contract discussions, the Canes are not in a position to overpay to keep a guy who knows he has many options in Free Agency.

Figuring out some deal to swap Staal for Brassard is a different animal. That is more about freeing Cap space than acquiring Brassard for the Canes.

I think Brassard would be an add-on for a Ferland deal. Doubt he would have much value to Carolina as a pending UFA, but if PIT is looking to get some cap space to help with a different move for a C I can see Carolina taking him as part of the deal. I doubt adding Brassard changes the price for Ferland that much, though.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

LeBrun threw out the idea of Brassard for Ferland last night on Insider Trading. If the Penguins acquire a 3C in a different trade, I think you could definitely see something like that making sense. Brassard would be a great fit in Carolina if the Canes are willing to use Staal like a defensive forward.

I saw the same clip, but I interpreted his suggestion as Brassard+1st for Ferland. "... Carolina would want a 1st round pick in there." He went on to mention flipping him after. It's unlikely that Brassard is returning that pick to Carolina if flipped, imo.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-matthews-negotiations-still-in-conception-stage~1592911

 

[GoldiFox]

I think Brassard would be an add-on for a Ferland deal. Doubt he would have much value to Carolina as a pending UFA, but if PIT is looking to get some cap space to help with a different move for a C I can see Carolina taking him as part of the deal. I doubt adding Brassard changes the price for Ferland that much, though.

I saw the same clip, but I interpreted his suggestion as Brassard+1st for Ferland. "... Carolina would want a 1st round pick in there." He went on to mention flipping him after. It's unlikely that Brassard is returning that pick to Carolina if flipped.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-matthews-negotiations-still-in-conception-stage~1592911

Brassard + 1st for Ferland would meet the Canes ask. Best case Brassard fits in the lineup and is open to re-signing. Worst case the Canes trade Brassard closer to the deadline for a 2nd or so (similar value to the + they are asking for now).

 

[Empoleon8771]

I saw the same clip, but I interpreted his suggestion as Brassard+1st for Ferland. "... Carolina would want a 1st round pick in there." He went on to mention flipping him after. It's unlikely that Brassard is returning that pick to Carolina if flipped, imo.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-matthews-negotiations-still-in-conception-stage~1592911

I didn't see that part, I only saw it mentioned as a Brassard for Ferland swap. Nevermind on that, I'd be disgusted if the Penguins paid that price

Someone is going to criminally overpay for Ferland, and I just really hope it's not my team. This sounds like a prime opportunity for someone like Edmonton or Vancouver to trade for Ferland and immediately sign him to a 6 year, $6 million AAV deal.

Brassard + 1st for Ferland would meet the Canes ask. Best case Brassard fits in the lineup and is open to re-signing. Worst case the Canes trade Brassard closer to the deadline for a 2nd or so (similar value to the + they are asking for now).

I think if you're trading Brassard for solely futures at the deadline, you can get a 1st straight up for him. The market for him is apparently really strong, I don't think teams are going to heavily gauge his value based on his play this year. If teams are acquiring him, it's with the idea of him being a 2C that isn't fitting with the Penguins IMO.

 

[GoldiFox]

I didn't see that part, I only saw it mentioned as a Brassard for Ferland swap. Nevermind on that, I'd be disgusted if the Penguins paid that price

Someone is going to criminally overpay for Ferland, and I just really hope it's not my team. This sounds like a prime opportunity for someone like Edmonton or Vancouver to trade for Ferland and immediately sign him to a 6 year, $6 million AAV deal.



I think if you're trading Brassard for solely futures at the deadline, you can get a 1st straight up for him. The market for him is apparently really strong, I don't think teams are going to heavily gauge his value based on his play this year. If teams are acquiring him, it's with the idea of him being a 2C that isn't fitting with the Penguins IMO.

If the market is really strong for Brassard and he is worth a 1st straight up then the solution seems pretty easy. Pittsburgh trades Brassard for a 1st. Pittsburgh trades that 1st for Ferland.

As LeBrun said in the video, it seems the Canes are really focused on picking up a 1st as an asset.

 

[vyktor]

Carolina trades Staal @ 5 million, and Ferland

Pittsburgh trades Brassard, Jarry, Hallander, 2019 1st, and 2019 2nd


Brassard gives the canes a top 6 center to replace Staal, they can either try to sign him long term or flip him for more assets. Hallander was a 2nd rounder last year and is a promising center prospect which fills a need for the canes. Jarry is a good and cheap 1B option that could potentially take over the starting job. The 1st and 2nd are required for the guys being traded.

The penguins lose their best forward prospect, along with their top 2 picks. This can be justified because Staal still has 3-4 more years of solid play in him, which is likely the extent of our cup window anyways, and would likely block Hallander from developing. We also have a strong need for a defensive 3C and a gritty forward like Ferland. Pitt would have to shed a little more salary for this deal to happen but I think JR could easily find a deal for Oleksiak.

Brass+Jarry+1st for Staal retained was discussed in other threads but I just expanded that idea. Thoughts?

CAR trades Staal to LVK (or Coyotes etc.) for a 7th rnd pick, PIT gives the 2019 2nd and a 7th round pick to LVK for Staal +2 mil retained
To CAR Brassard, Jarry, Hallander, 2019 1st
To Pit Ferland

 

[MinJaBen]

CAR trades Staal to LVK (or Coyotes etc.) for a 7th rnd pick, PIT gives the 2019 2nd and a 7th round pick to LVK for Staal +2 mil retained
To CAR Brassard, Jarry, Hallander, 2019 1st
To Pit Ferland

Staal has a full NMC. He is only going where he wants to go. I think most of the idea behind a Staal to the Pens is that he would probably approve a trade like that since he played there and won there and has a chance to win again. No way is he waiving to go to Arizona. Maybe LVK as he is good friends with the Flower and they can win, but I'd doubt he uproots his family to go there.

 

[bobc222]

Can a pens fan weigh in on why Brassard hadn't worked in Pitt? I really liked him on the Rangers but am not sure what's going on now.

 

[pspot]

fan of neither team but what about Staal, Ferland and Fleury for Kessel and Brassard?

 

[domaug]

Staal has a full NMC. He is only going where he wants to go. I think most of the idea behind a Staal to the Pens is that he would probably approve a trade like that since he played there and won there and has a chance to win again. No way is he waiving to go to Arizona. Maybe LVK as he is good friends with the Flower and they can win, but I'd doubt he uproots his family to go there.

in the scenario vyktor posted, Staal would only be going to Arizona on paper and he's flipped to the Penguins afterward.

i think it's a take on the Brassard trade from last year, probably fueled by the same sour grapes as the crowd who took issue with the trade that kept whining about how Vegas was somehow breaking the rules to help out the Pens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

fan of neither team but what about Staal, Ferland and Fleury for Kessel and Brassard?

That is horrendously bad.

Can a pens fan weigh in on why Brassard hadn't worked in Pitt? I really liked him on the Rangers but am not sure what's going on now.

I think it's 2 big things, he's very ill-suited for the role/situations the Penguins use their 3C in and he's pissed about having to be a defensive 3C in a contract year.

 

[MinJaBen]

in the scenario vyktor posted, Staal would only be going to Arizona on paper and he's flipped to the Penguins afterward.

i think it's a take on the Brassard trade from last year, probably fueled by the same sour grapes as the crowd who took issue with the trade that kept whining about how Vegas was somehow breaking the rules to help out the Pens.

Ah, you are correct! I'm not sure how I missed that so badly.



Needs more coffee, I do.

 

[domaug]

Can a pens fan weigh in on why Brassard hadn't worked in Pitt? I really liked him on the Rangers but am not sure what's going on now.

he was honestly okay in the first handful of games he played with the Pens, but then he had a groin injury. since returning, he hasn't looked the same. i was hoping to chalk most of it up to poor fit in the Pens' system and poor fit with the forwards that kept getting shuffled into his line. he just doesn't seem like the same player he was.

maybe he is just a poor fit for what the Pens need. i dunno what else it could be. hard to imagine a player with his pedigree just falling off a cliff from one team to the next.

 

[domaug]

fan of neither team but what about Staal, Ferland and Fleury for Kessel and Brassard?

nah. i'd rather the Pens keep Kessel until he stops being so darn good for them.

also not a move the Hurricanes would want to make considering they want to pile up some futures and keep building. Kessel doesn't fit that for them.

 

[spockBokk]

Brassard + 1st + 3rd

for

Ferland + Wallmark + 4th

CAR gets their 1st for Ferland and a temporary, potentially permanent if Brassard fits in, upgrade at C. If he doesn’t work out, he’s sold to highest bidder.

PIT gets Ferland and a cheap 3C in Wallmark.

Picks upgrade for CAR since they give up 2 cheap roster players.

 

[domaug]

Brassard + 1st + 3rd

for

Ferland + Wallmark + 4th

CAR gets their 1st for Ferland and a temporary, potentially permanent if Brassard fits in, upgrade at C. If he doesn’t work out, he’s sold to highest bidder.

PIT gets Ferland and a cheap 3C in Wallmark.

Picks upgrade for CAR since they give up 2 cheap roster players.

nah. i'd rather the Pens trade Brassard to a team who wants him to get a 1st or something back and package those assets for Ferland.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

fan of neither team but what about Staal, Ferland and Fleury for Kessel and Brassard?

Any Kessel deal to Carolina would have needed Skinner, so I doubt there’s a deal to be made.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Brassard + 1st + 3rd

for

Ferland + Wallmark + 4th

CAR gets their 1st for Ferland and a temporary, potentially permanent if Brassard fits in, upgrade at C. If he doesn’t work out, he’s sold to highest bidder.

PIT gets Ferland and a cheap 3C in Wallmark.

Picks upgrade for CAR since they give up 2 cheap roster players.

That's a crazy overpayment by the Penguins. Ferland isn't worth Brassard and a 1st.

What I find kinda funny is that Brassard only has 4 fewer ES points this year than Ferland despite Ferland being given an insanely more offensive role than Brassard. Yet everyone is saying Brassard sucks and is washed up.