Can Carey Price still win the Vezina and/or Hart with this bad start?

[MapleLeafistan]

Can Carey Price still win the Vezina and/or Hart with this bad start?


Answer: No

 

[Plural]

It's not impossible. But it's highly unlikely.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Hart for sure no.

Vezina only if all the other goalies somehow go into horrible form while he plays his best hockey ever and the voters suffer from recency bias. He's wayyyy behind right now though.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Missing 10 games will hurt as he’ll likely finish with 50-55 games, and that’s if he stays healthy which puts him at a huge disadvantage. But nothing’s impossible. If he carry’s a team like Montreal this year, he’s going to get a lot of looks.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Hart for sure no.

Vezina only if all the other goalies somehow go into horrible form while he plays his best hockey ever and the voters suffer from recency bias. He's wayyyy behind right now though.

Price and Dubnyk I believe we’re at .940+ at this point last season. They finished 3rd and 4th respectfully but fell quite abit from slumps within the season. It can happen to anyone.

 

[MaxV]

Scoring is way up this year.

We might finally have multiple 100 point players. How long has it been? Without looking, I'm guessing OV and Sid's heydays.

Goalie is highly unlikely to take the Hart.

Vezina? Sure, it's possible. He would need to get RED hot, but he is certainly capable of that.

 

[bouncesonly]

Sure, put up 940+ going forward and take the Habs to the playoffs and I think he'd have a good shot.

Here's an absurd way to look at finishing the season with a .940 for Price. If Price plays every game for the rest of the season, and he faced an average 30.0 shots against while maintaining a .902, he'd have to keep that up until there were 28 games left. At that point, he must shut out the remaining 28 games to hit a .940

 

[Fataldogg]

Vezina is voted on by GMs.

I know. And those GMs are constantly exposed to a goaltender like Price.

He has name recognition now. He will get votes just for being Price. Just like Lundqvist got votes just for being Lundqvist. Names carry a lot of weight.

 

[ThirdManIn]

I know. And those GMs are constantly exposed to a goaltender like Price.

He has name recognition now. He will get votes just for being Price. Just like Lundqvist got votes just for being Lundqvist. Names carry a lot of weight.

OK. You said media bias, so I just took it as you thinking the hockey media votes for Vezina like they do other awards.

I don't think media bias is going to influence too many GMs. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think they are sitting in their office watching hockey news all day. What do you think this is? The Presidency?

 

[Thenameless]

No chance.

The only reason why he initially won the Hart was because of a historically weak season by forwards (no one hit 90 points). There were other goaltenders who had similar statistical seasons since the lockout whom won the Vezina but only finished as a Hart finalist behind forwards who score 100+ points or 50+ goals.

With Kucherov, Stamkos, or even Ovechkin (on pace for 50+ goals), and other goaltenders like Bobrovsky and Vasilevsky already having consistent and great seasons, Price would not be considered.

However, I can easily see him posting a .920SV% by the end of the season and being a Vezina finalist from media bias (fans from Canada never want to admit this is true, but Toronto, Montreal, etc, get a lot more attention than a goaltender from Tampa).

I like this answer. Too many forwards have started well for a goalie with a bad start to win the Hart. Vezina remains a remote possibility if he finishes extremely well.

 

[Lebowski]

No really as unlikely as some make it seem.

A typical "Carey Price" month and his stats should be right back into elite territory. He only has 15 games under his belt this season and will probably have around 60 by the end of the season. That's a LOT of time to turn things around.

Plus, he has the notoriety, and he came in as the savior once again as the team was in shambles. A few games later and we're right back in the playoffs race.

Saying Price can't get Vezina consideration is the equivalent of saying McDavid or Crosby have no chance at the Art Ross. It's still early.

 

[jetsforever]

That's more my question.

Not saying it's for sure going to happen.

But I could see a scenario play itself out where Price catapults Montreal back in contention towards the top of division, and has a heck of a remainder to the season. But because of his bad start, at the end, Bob (or someone else) still likely holds a statistical advantage.

Is that statistical advantage all that counts for Vezina?
And - is it all that should count?

If Price has this unfathomably good end to the season and Bobrovsky is still statistically ahead of him, I think Bob deserves it

 

[HabsDood]

I mean technically sure. Technically anyone in the NFL could get hot for the rest of the year and win the Hart.

Is it likely? No.

But if Bob has better stats at the end of the year it's not happening regardless.

Well, If Price was in the NFL he'd be a D I guess.

 

[Kimota]

I don't see why not. It's early in the season and if he keep dominating he'll be recognized.

People remember a good story that is easy to remember down the line. You have someone who played like crap early on. He had an injury, his team was horrible. Returns to his old form and his team starts steamrolling everybody with wins. It's already this season's comeback.

 

[AzHawk]

nope

 

[Thenameless]

If Price has this unfathomably good end to the season and Bobrovsky is still statistically ahead of him, I think Bob deserves it

Wouldn't it depend on how "unfathomably good"? I mean if he ends the season with 10 straight shutouts (with little goal support) heading into the playoffs, and Bobrovsky remains only a hair ahead in overall goalie stats I think Price would warrant serious and fair consideration.

 

[Maffew]

Has a goalie ever won the Hart without the Vezina?

It’ll be tough... but if he’s gets the Habs back in the playoffs, he should absolutely get Hart votes. Not sure he’ll have the stat line for a Vezina.

Was interested to see the actual answer to this question. Turns out that a goalie has won the Hart Memorial trophy only 8 times in history, and the first three were different than the Vezina winner, while the last five have been the same.

Season	Hart Winner	Vezina Winner
1928-29	Roy Worters (NY Americans)	George Hainsworth (MTL)
1949-50	Charlie Rainer (NYR)	Bill Durnan (MTL)
1953-54	Al Rollins (CHI)	Harry Lumley (TOR)
1961-62	Jacques Plante (MTL)	Jacques Plante (MTL)
1996-97	Dominik Hasek (BUF)	Dominik Hasek (BUF)
1998-98	Dominik Hasek (BUF)	Dominik Hasek (BUF)
2001-02	Jose Theodore (MTL)	Jose Theodore (MTL)
2014-15	Carey Price (MTL)	Carey Price (MTL)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Laineux]

Of course he "can", but it's not going to happen.

 

[beowulf]

As much as I like Price it would take an amazing run for the rest of the season.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Dominik Hasek went 6-10-3 (.898) through the first two months of 1997-98. It's possible to bounce back, but with goaltending statistics, it does require a lot.

In Hasek's case, it took him going .944 the rest of the season, but also for the Vezina front-runners (who had been hovering around .925-.930 near the All-Star and Olympic breaks) to have poor final stretches.

Has a goalie ever won the Hart without the Vezina?

The same voters who gave Jose Theodore the Hart Trophy did not vote him as 1st Team All-Star that year (he also merely tied in Vezina voting, but won the tiebreaker). More than that, because his hot streak came so late in the year, two other goaltenders were Lester B Pearson (Ted Lindsay) nominees, while Theodore received no nomination.

It's definitely possible to be seen as most valuable without necessarily being the best.