Can Carey Price still win the Vezina and/or Hart with this bad start?

[bobholly39]

I'm not asking *will he* win. I understand that to even be in contention he's going to have to have one of the most ridiculous 3/4ths of a season ever.

Rather i'm asking - let's say he finishes the season super strong. Anyone judging at year end could see that starting from end of november to april he's clearly been the best goalie. But because of his bad start with dragged his status down (it's all based on average), at the end of the year he's still behind a couple of guys in sv% and gaa.

Would that be enough to win a Vezina and/or hart? Should it?

Example. Bob finishes the year at 930 sv% and is consistent most the year. Price finishes at 925 sv% - but is clearly the best goalie past november, but his horrible start brings his numbers down.

Would Bob still win in such a scenario? Do you think Bob should win in such a scenario, or that Price would be more worthy based on a stronger 3/4th of a season?

Has a Vezina race ever played out that way before?

I feel goalies are a bit different than players - since it's all about average. A really bad game (or 5) for a player just means he gets 0 points. A really bad game (or 5) for a goalie can really destroy his stats, which make it hard to recover.

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[Ainec]

yeah it's possible I guess

 

[David Suzuki]

if the habs make the playoffs he'd likely get some serious looks at hart trophy

 

[yangmang]

I'm not asking *will he* win. I understand that to even be in contention he's going to have to have one of the most ridiculous 3/4ths of a season ever.

Rather i'm asking - let's say he finishes the season super strong. Anyone judging at year end could see that starting from end of november to april he's clearly been the best goalie. But because of his bad start with dragged his status down (it's all based on average), at the end of the year he's still behind a couple of guys in sv% and gaa.

Would that be enough to win a Vezina and/or hart? Should it?

Example. Bob finishes the year at 930 sv% and is consistent most the year. Price finishes at 925 sv% - but is clearly the best goalie past november, but his horrible start brings his numbers down.

Would Bob still win in such a scenario? Do you think Bob should win in such a scenario, or that Price would be more worthy based on a stronger 3/4th of a season?

Has a Vezina race ever played out that way before?

I feel goalies are a bit different than players - since it's all about average. A really bad game (or 5) for a player just means he gets 0 points. A really bad game (or 5) for a goalie can really destroy his stats, which make it hard to recover.

no man

 

[Prettyisland]

2nd place finish in Atlantic division to maybe get some buzz. I mean if he runs the table and only loses a handful of games you have to at least take a look.

The price/Montreal dynamic is like E.T and Elliot.. they success is so connected it gives price a head start of sorts when it comes to the Trophy watch

 

[alg363636]

I mean technically sure. Technically anyone in the NFL could get hot for the rest of the year and win the Hart.

Is it likely? No.

But if Bob has better stats at the end of the year it's not happening regardless.

 

[Tatar Shots]

I really doubt it. Price would need to have a .940 sv% from here on out to be contention for the Vezina. If he plays 40 more games this year and faces the same amount of shots on average, that would put him at a .930 sv% for the year. He has had 3 very good games in a row, but I wouldn't bet on him being the best goalie in the NHL from here on out.

 

[sparxx87]

if the habs make the playoffs he'd likely get some serious looks at hart trophy

Has a goalie ever won the Hart without the Vezina?

It’ll be tough... but if he’s gets the Habs back in the playoffs, he should absolutely get Hart votes. Not sure he’ll have the stat line for a Vezina.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I guess anything is possible.....I’d rank it in the highly unlikely category today.

 

[bobholly39]

I mean technically sure. Technically anyone in the NFL could get hot for the rest of the year and win the Hart.

Is it likely? No.

But if Bob has better stats at the end of the year it's not happening regardless.

That's more my question.

Not saying it's for sure going to happen.

But I could see a scenario play itself out where Price catapults Montreal back in contention towards the top of division, and has a heck of a remainder to the season. But because of his bad start, at the end, Bob (or someone else) still likely holds a statistical advantage.

Is that statistical advantage all that counts for Vezina?
And - is it all that should count?

 

[bobholly39]

Has a goalie ever won the Hart without the Vezina?

It’ll be tough... but if he’s gets the Habs back in the playoffs, he should absolutely get Hart votes. Not sure he’ll have the stat line for a Vezina.

Maybe a long, long time ago, but not in modern day NHL. And modern day NHL is all that really counts because if it happened very long ago the dynamics were probably different then in today's NHL, so not super relevant.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

Nah trade him and rebuild like everyone was saying before lol

 

[GodEmperor]

Sure, put up 940+ going forward and take the Habs to the playoffs and I think he'd have a good shot.

 

[ManofSteel55]

No. Especially if any of the guys with hot starts keep rolling.

 

[sparxx87]

Maybe a long, long time ago, but not in modern day NHL. And modern day NHL is all that really counts because if it happened very long ago the dynamics were probably different then in today's NHL, so not super relevant.

True enough, but I also think he could potentially have a case for most valuable player to his team without necessarily having the stat line for a Vezina.

 

[Butch 19]

srsly?? can't go ONE day without a new thread??

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

I mean technically sure. Technically anyone in the NFL could get hot for the rest of the year and win the Hart.

Even Ezekiel Elliott?

 

[Fataldogg]

No chance.

The only reason why he initially won the Hart was because of a historically weak season by forwards (no one hit 90 points). There were other goaltenders who had similar statistical seasons since the lockout whom won the Vezina but only finished as a Hart finalist behind forwards who score 100+ points or 50+ goals.

With Kucherov, Stamkos, or even Ovechkin (on pace for 50+ goals), and other goaltenders like Bobrovsky and Vasilevsky already having consistent and great seasons, Price would not be considered.

However, I can easily see him posting a .920SV% by the end of the season and being a Vezina finalist from media bias (fans from Canada never want to admit this is true, but Toronto, Montreal, etc, get a lot more attention than a goaltender from Tampa).

 

[alg363636]

That's more my question.

Not saying it's for sure going to happen.

But I could see a scenario play itself out where Price catapults Montreal back in contention towards the top of division, and has a heck of a remainder to the season. But because of his bad start, at the end, Bob (or someone else) still likely holds a statistical advantage.

Is that statistical advantage all that counts for Vezina?
And - is it all that should count?

Yes. The Hart has pretty consistently gone to the best player even if they aren't the MVP. I think MVP is too hard to judge objectively. Tons of teams have players they wouldn't be able to win without. And why is getting them to the playoffs the definer of being THE MVP?

The area gets too grey. That's why the voters go with the best overall player.

Even Ezekiel Elliott?

This phone always does that. Not all of us like the NFL dammit android!

 

[ThirdManIn]

Sure, he could, but he would be relying on several other players falling off and damaging their own cases for the Hart (and for the Vezina, for that matter, though obviously fewer players would need to fall off). It's not very likely.

 

[FlyersFanSinceBirth]

Yes. The Hart has pretty consistently gone to the best player even if they aren't the MVP. I think MVP is too hard to judge objectively. Tons of teams have players they wouldn't be able to win without. And why is getting them to the playoffs the definer of being THE MVP?

The area gets too grey. That's why the voters go with the best overall player.




This phone always does that. Not all of us like the NFL dammit android!

Lol mine does the exact same thing. It was nice to not be on the receiving end for once.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Need to see more from Price.
Buffalo and Ottawa are both playing like **** so there was only one good win, Columbus.
The next two are against Detroit who isn't setting the world on fire either so let's see how he does against better opposition.

 

[Riddum]

No

 

[David Suzuki]

Has a goalie ever won the Hart without the Vezina?

It’ll be tough... but if he’s gets the Habs back in the playoffs, he should absolutely get Hart votes. Not sure he’ll have the stat line for a Vezina.

yea I think he has a better chance at the hart then vezina for sure

 

[ThirdManIn]

No chance.

The only reason why he initially won the Hart was because of a historically weak season by forwards (no one hit 90 points). There were other goaltenders who had similar statistical seasons since the lockout whom won the Vezina but only finished as a Hart finalist behind forwards who score 100+ points or 50+ goals.

With Kucherov, Stamkos, or even Ovechkin (on pace for 50+ goals), and other goaltenders like Bobrovsky and Vasilevsky already having consistent and great seasons, Price would not be considered.

However, I can easily see him posting a .920SV% by the end of the season and being a Vezina finalist from media bias (fans from Canada never want to admit this is true, but Toronto, Montreal, etc, get a lot more attention than a goaltender from Tampa).

Vezina is voted on by GMs.