Can a team realistically challenge for the cup without drafting in the top 5?

[CrypTic]

I can't speak for everybody but I think the general feeling the question asks would be can you win the cup without having 2 or 3 of your core players being top 5 picks. In this case you are looking at guys like Crosby, Malkin, Toews or Kane and ignore somebody say Like Seguin who was a passenger on the Bruins, although a 2nd overall pick when they won the cup. When it comes to trades I would think a team trading a top 5 pick for players holds more weight then a team trading for a player previously picked in the top 5(ie Using the Thornton trade, Boston would get the benefit of having a top 5 choice and not San Jose)

That makes the most sense to me too. I'm more in the middle about Seguin but lean toward what you're saying. If the player isn't important (e.g., seguin, RyJo), I don't know if you should count them here.

 

[NickLidstrom]

The Bruins had Seguin on the team, but he was not a big piece.

Marchand, Krecji, Lucic, Bergeron, Chara, etc were all later draft choices that just turned out great.

I also think the need a top end draft pick stats are being heavily skewed by Crosby. Not only is his team winning more, but he's knocking other teams out.

Wasn't Seguin your leading scorer in the regular season?

 

[OilCanada92]

Wasn't Seguin your leading scorer in the regular season?

He was when they went to the finals and lost. He was their 12/13th forward when they won the cup in his rookie season.

 

[Go Wings]

Detroit did in 2008 and 2009.

So yes they can.

 

[b in vancouver]

Detroit did in 2008 and 2009.

So yes they can.

Yep. The whole premise is flawed - and for fans to justify tanking to get those core pieces. It's lazy.

 

[b in vancouver]

I don't know how you can look at all of the recent examples and come to the conclusion that drafting in the top-5 is necessary.


Ryan Johansen, Brad Stuart, and Nathan Horton being mentioned?
The 7th or so best player on each team is really the thing that put it all together and made it possible? And those level of players could not possibly be found outside the top 5?

This is much less proof of it being a necessity, and much more that 100% of NHL teams will one way or another have a player that was a high pick.

Exactly.
How many active players won The Cup with the team that drafted them (discounting Seguin as it was traded for)
Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, J. Staal, Toews, Kane, Doughty, E. Staal... I'm lazy but how many more are there?

 

[bombers15]

Detroit did in 2008 and 2009.

So yes they can.

Brad Stuart was drafted 3rd overall.

 

[DEVILS130]

How many teams don't have a top-5 pick on them?

At quick glance, it appears that Anaheim, Boston and Detroit are the only teams that don't have a top 5 pick in their organization

 

[Big Ed]

Brad Stuart was drafted 3rd overall.

We didn't draft him, he was a deadline acquisition.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Yeah, this. It's a team game, all about the team coming together at the right time. I've seen it happen now with Ottawa and to a degree Nashville and I 100% believe it. It's not all about the flashy, big money players.

True to a degree but when you play another team that has a Crosby, Gretzky, Lemieux, Kane, Doughty, Stamkos etc and plays a good team game as well you won't be able to win. In fact, look at the last 15 Cup winners how many had superstars? Almost all. Mostly because to win four intense best of seven game series requires star players that are extremely difficult to stop or Defensemen/Goalies that are extremely tough to beat not just play well as a team. Thats why in the playoffs Toronto will be the team to beat in the East and Edmonton in the West over the next five years.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Nope, but I'd really love to see that happen.

I mean, I guess you can say Colorado did it both in 1996 and 2001, but they traded assets to get those two cups. Only players I know of that went top ten was Forsberg and Ricci, but I could be missing some.

Anaheim basically did it as well in 2007.

Edmonton in 2006 when they lost, basically traded for a whole bunch of assets. Same with Calgary.

Boston kind of did, but they hardly played Seguin so I'd say it counts, although he went beast mode in the ECF. It's kind of like New Jersey playing Larsson only five games in the second round, but made it.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

newsflash

teams in every sport need super stars to win titles

super stars are drafted very high

 

[Classicnamesup]

Yep. The whole premise is flawed - and for fans to justify tanking to get those core pieces. It's lazy.

Isn't that kind of the point though. How many teams have won a cup in the last decade without a top 5 pick? Only one. Very few teams have even appeared in the finals without one.

Almost all of the teams that won have bottomed out recently. Kind of tells you something.

 

[Peter Puck]

Isn't that kind of the point though. How many teams have won a cup in the last decade without a top 5 pick? Only one. Very few teams have even appeared in the finals without one.

Almost all of the teams that won have bottomed out recently. Kind of tells you something.

I think this is the real point. How many teams have won a cup without being bad for at least 2 or 3 years. Almost all the cup winners won by sucking for a few years, getting at least 2 top 3 picks within 3 or 4 years. What this means is that the system is set up where it is very very hard to put together a SC winning team without tanking (or maybe just sucking) for at least 3 years.

The teams that haven't done this include Dallas, Blues, Habs, Rangers, Minnesota, Detroit, Ottawa, Vancouver, Boston, Anaheim, Nashville, (+ probably missed a few). None of these teams is considered a serious cup threat. Yes Boston won and a few of these teams made the finals, but how many are considered strong contenders.

Nashville and Ottawa did well in this year's playoffs, but there isn't really anything to suggest that they will repeat. Both teams were middle of the pack for the whole regular season.

Top 3 draft picks are hugely important and I don't think the league should reward teams with them for sucking for multiple consecutive years. Bad teams can still vastly improve getting 1 top 3 pick and then a couple in the 4-7 range.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Nashville Just did it

 

[David Dennison]

newsflash

teams in every sport need super stars to win titles

super stars are drafted very high

Yeah, and I think the superstar effect is much smaller in the NHL vs the NBA/NFL.

 

[Machinehead]

The question specifically says DRAFTING in the top 5. Not having guys who were taken top 5 by other teams.

'08 Red Wings
'09 Red Wings
'12 Devils
'14 Rangers
'17 Predators

You could probably even count the 2010 Flyers and 2011 Canucks, unless you want to count the Sedins drafted 13 years before the SCF or argue that JVR pushed the Flyers over the hump.

So, yes.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Original post update. I'm not trying to be really selective on a case-by-case bases for older players, more, I'm trying to spark discussion on whether it's possible to challenge for the cup post salary cap without drafting in the top 5.

The answer is yes. It's been said already.

You just choose not to go along with it. Why bother asking the question if you don't want to hear the answers?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Nashville Just did it

NSH drafted Jones in the top 5 who they traded to CBJ for Johansen who was a top 5 pick.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i think the 04 flames makes the list

the question should be whether you can get there without a key "star" contribution from a top 5 draft pick, whether traded for or not. it doesn't count if you have a top 5 on the 3rd or 4th line.

boston and detroit ae the only other teams that come to mind recently.

 

[bobholly39]

Kind of a stupid question since if I look at every NHL team heading into next season - do any of them not have a too 5 pick in there somewhere? I can't think of any off hand.

 

[Jackets16]

Yep. The whole premise is flawed - and for fans to justify tanking to get those core pieces. It's lazy.

So, because 1 team did it, it is flawed? I'd say that is proof it isn't.

IMO, you can contend, but it is hard to be consistent or win the Stanley Cup without multiple top 5 (or close) picks.

The real question should be this.

Can a team win the Stanley Cup without multiple top 5 (or close) picks?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The answer is yes. It's been said already.

You just choose not to go along with it. Why bother asking the question if you don't want to hear the answers?

There's no need to get upset.

I'm also not sure why you're quoting my post from the first page? There has been a lot of good discussion in this thread and it's not cut and dry like you seem to believe.

 

[lifeisruff]

How many teams don't have a top 5 draft pick?

Off the top of my head, Boston, Philly (until this year), Detroit and Anaheim.

I'm sure I'm missing some.

Montreal-Galchenuk
Ottawa-Turris
Toronto-Marner, Mathews, Marleau
Buffalo-Eichel, Reinhart, Kane, Bogosian
Rangers-Nash
Islanders-Tavares
Devils-Hall
Penguins-Crosby, Malkin, Kessel,
Washington-OV
Carolina-Lindholm, Hanifin
Tampa-Stamkos, Hedman
Florida-Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad
Nashville-Johannson
Columbus-Jones
Chicago-Toews, Kane
St. Louis-Pietrangelo
Dallas-Seguin
Colorado-McKinnon, Yakapov, Johnson, Duchene, Landeskog
Vegas-MAF
Arizona-OEL
LA-Doughty
San Jose-Thorton
Vancouver-Sedins
Edmonton-McDavid
Calgary-Bennett
Winnipeg-Trouba
Minnesota-Niederreiter