Speculation: Cammalleri to Vancouver?

[Bleach Clean]

There's a big difference between trading a 27 year old goaltender to a team that (with a goalie) was supposed to be ready to start taking major steps towards being a contender and trading a 31 year old forward while you're still a few years away from contending.

Trading Schneider to the Oilers was dangerous because of the perception that it would help make them dangerous now and in the immediate future when we're still trying to compete. We're not going to help put one more potential obstacle between us and winning.

For Calgary, it's a much different situation with Cammalleri. That team is in the infancy of its rebuild. It makes no difference to them whether they make us better short term or not, as they're not ready to compete with us while Cammalleri would be here anyway. It's actually probably attractive to them to weaken our future assets and potentially make us a bit weaker than we would've been if/when Calgary starts to put together something resembling a winning team a couple years down the line.

It's a pretty simple difference that makes the scenarios completely different.

The situations are different, but the impetus to extract more from a rival is not. In the case of EDM/Schneider, it was great enough that Schneider still went east after it was rumoured that EDM put more on the table than NJ did. Now, obviously it's as you said: Schneider was set to offer immediate impact. Still, that was understood by all parties and EDM _knew_ that they had to overcompensate compared to other suitors. Premium offered and still Schneider went east.

You mentioned the key factor in extracting a premium in the bolded sentences: It makes little difference to CGY where Cammalleri goes, but it does make it more attractive to them to extract better assets from VAN because it weakens a division rival. Not to mention, they have better grounds for asking for those assets due to it being a divisional trade. They are justified in asking for them. Where other teams don't have to deal with that same ruleset when trying to procure Cammalleri.

I'm not saying a trade can't happen, but there will be a difference in cost paid IMO.

 

[VanillaCoke]

The Calgary intermission stated today that camm was going to be traded and he wants to go to an eastern team. Doesn't like being so far from his hometown.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Whatever there are better players than him that we can acquire.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

The Calgary intermission stated today that camm was going to be traded and he wants to go to an eastern team. Doesn't like being so far from his hometown.

And the team closest to his hometown desperately needs a first line centre.

And a very influential person in his current organization has some very strong ties to said team

Cammelleri to the Leafs (e5)



Mostly joking, but not entirely unpossible.

 

[Nucker101]

And the team closest to his hometown desperately needs a first line centre.

And a very influential person in his current organization has some very strong ties to said team

Cammelleri to the Leafs (e5)





Mostly joking, but not entirely unpossible.

I believe he really prefers playing LW and is much more effective at that position. I could be wrong though.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Toronto does not have the room for him, nor is he good enough at centre to dislodge who they already have. Ottawa is the only eastern Canadian team I see being a fit. Of course, perhaps he finally ventures out of Canada.

 

[denkiteki]

Personally i'm tired of rental players... they pretty much never work out for us (and for the most part, don't work out for most teams) so why continue to sell out draft picks for short term "help" that often don't really help us much. The "bigger impact" a player was suppose to have, the more the seem to flop out for us. Take Roy for example, he didn't help much last season but was suppose to be a top 6 center for us (yet he didn't produce). The price we paid wasn't big but again didn't really help us much in the playoffs.

2011-2012, we got Samuel Pahlsson as a rental and a couple minor deals (not counting ZK since he wasn't really a rental type deal like this). Smaller impact player that was somewhat successful i suppose (we got pretty much what was advertised, 3rd line defensive center with little offense).

2010-2011, successful deadline but only because the players we got were depth players (not similar to Cammalleri at all). Higgins is still with the team and was a great addition but was obtained as a depth/3rd line forward. Lapierre had a huge impact during our playoff run but was obtained as a 4th line center who only moved up due to injury.

2009-2010, Alberts, depth dman who didn't help the team much that year and for the most part has been injury replacement for us the last few years... nothing special.

Add Booth to the "top 6" player that we try to get during the span and pretty much every trade we did (during the season for the season) really didn't help the team (except 2011 but again we were going after "depth players") so this probably wouldn't be any different. An "impact" player generally takes a while to actually impact the team since the need to learn the system and develop chemistry with other players. Thats why most trades generally don't work out well in the NHL... more so for "impact" players as the expectations for them are much higher.

Cammalleri would more likely be another Roy example than a Higgins example.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Agree denkiteki. Sick of the rentals myself. The Roy trade was enough.

If Gillis makes a deal for an impact forward, I hope it's for one on a contract already. Even if the contract is inflated or somewhat poor. At least the player is locked in. Cammalleri, while a former Gillis client is not assured to sign with this team. He would have to immediately sign for me to feel comfortable with any trade for him, and he likely would not do that.

Interesting speculation of him wanting to go east. Who said that BTW?

 

[deadinthewater]

Sick of rentals as well. We need someone who's here to stay.

 

[John Bender*]

Sick of rentals as well. We need someone who's here to stay.

Cammaleri does not make sense. Gillman was on the radio saying they did not want to move picks or prospects anymore. That's what Calgary is going to be looking for.

I really like Matthias. Big strong player with offensive upside. Reminds me of what the Kings have in their bottom 6. I wonder really what it would take to get him?

 

[deadinthewater]

Cammaleri does not make sense. Gillman was on the radio saying they did not want to move picks or prospects anymore. That's what Calgary is going to be looking for.

I really like Matthias. Big strong player with offensive upside. Reminds me of what the Kings have in their bottom 6. I wonder really what it would take to get him?

I don't really care if we get Cammalleri or not. I'm not sure if he does a whole lot improve us.

 

[deckercky]

Booth wasn't a rental...

IMO the team needs to bring in a solid third line center good enough that Richardson is forced out of the position. Ideally, the team can do that while keeping their first three rounds of picks.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Santorelli is the perfect 3rd line center...
Need a 2c to help kesler, or a 2w if kesler is playing C.

 

[Bure All Day]

And the team closest to his hometown desperately needs a first line centre.

And a very influential person in his current organization has some very strong ties to said team

Cammelleri to the Leafs (e5)



Mostly joking, but not entirely unpossible.

unpossible? I'm not usually a grammar nazi but that is pretty bad..

 

[Bure All Day]

Cammaleri does not make sense. Gillman was on the radio saying they did not want to move picks or prospects anymore. That's what Calgary is going to be looking for.

I really like Matthias. Big strong player with offensive upside. Reminds me of what the Kings have in their bottom 6. I wonder really what it would take to get him?

Thank ****ing god, I needed some reassurance of this

 

[Tanevian*]

Thank ****ing god, I needed some reassurance of this

I didn't "want" to get drunk last night. Ooops.

 

[Bure All Day]

Santorelli is the perfect 3rd line center...
Need a 2c to help kesler, or a 2w if kesler is playing C.

This is what we're missing.

I think Edler could bring up a good player like that.

Does Edler for Grabovski work? He was a borderline 60 point guy on the Leafs, I'm sure he could be a 65 point guy with Kes on his wing, of vice versa. Would they need to add a bit maybe?

Possibly Edler for Turris? Not sure Ottawa's exact needs, but I'm sure defense is up there

 

[Tanevian*]

unpossible? I'm not usually a grammar nazi but that is pretty bad..

Plus he spelled Cammalleri uncorrectly.

 

[Bure All Day]

I didn't "want" to get drunk last night. Ooops.

Well in the right situation of course we could move picks/prospects, but I'm glad to hear they don't have the mindset of throwing them away for 3rd liners anymore

 

[Bure All Day]

Plus he spelled Cammalleri uncorrectly.

....

 

[Tanevian*]

....

Doh, miscorrectly.

 

[dwarf]

Calgary will hold out the same as most teams will until the deadline, when rentals will be worth the most they can possibly be.

It will probably end up being a first and a prospect to get him at that point.

I personally am sick and tired of rentals and throwing away draft picks.

In this year of lowered cap, if we miss the playoffs I won't even mind that much. Would rather draft to make our team better, then giving draft picks away to make other teams better.

 

[Bure All Day]

Doh, miscorrectly.

either the trolls are coming out in groves or

 

[Regal]

if toronto and montreal were willing trade partners, then obviously GMs don't really care that much about inter-division trading

Yea, that was a 4am misreading. I thought he was arguing against my point using that example.

The situations are different, but the impetus to extract more from a rival is not. In the case of EDM/Schneider, it was great enough that Schneider still went east after it was rumoured that EDM put more on the table than NJ did. Now, obviously it's as you said: Schneider was set to offer immediate impact. Still, that was understood by all parties and EDM _knew_ that they had to overcompensate compared to other suitors. Premium offered and still Schneider went east.

You mentioned the key factor in extracting a premium in the bolded sentences: It makes little difference to CGY where Cammalleri goes, but it does make it more attractive to them to extract better assets from VAN because it weakens a division rival. Not to mention, they have better grounds for asking for those assets due to it being a divisional trade. They are justified in asking for them. Where other teams don't have to deal with that same ruleset when trying to procure Cammalleri.

I'm not saying a trade can't happen, but there will be a difference in cost paid IMO.

Well teams generally take the deal that gives them the most. If say, the cost of Cammalleri is roughly a 1st + B prospect, and several teams are offering that, Calgary would weight the prospects and how high the pick is likely to be and take the package they like the most. If that package is Vancouver, I can't see them saying to themselves, "well we want their package, but let's ask for a 2nd on top of that because we need to milk the division rival." Deals are too precarious as is, which is something Feaster mentioned after the Smid deal.

To get back to the Schneider deal, I'd say that's when the premium does come into play. When you're dealing with a potential difference maker for a team in your division, you're going to want more so that it hurts them more or improves you more. I don't think this comes into play in the same way here. It makes sense for a rebuilding team to get future assets out of a division rival, but the idea is still that when you become relevant, they'll likely be on the downswing, so it's not nearly as important as in the Schneider scenario.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

either the trolls are coming out in groves or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke