Cam Neely

dafoomie

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50 goals in 44 games isn't a big season?
And people don't realize that Neely's career should've been over long before he scored 50 in 44. This was akin to Orr's 76 Canada Cup where he came in and dominated with nothing left in his knee. And Neely did this over an entire season, not a 2 week tournament. In the 3 years following his injury, he scored 70 goals in 71 games.

Its not just what he was able to accomplish but the circumstances under which he accomplished it that make him an all time great.
 

BNHL

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Neely had a few seasons that made you shake, he also made Patrick Roy shake, Roy said Neely was the most intense player he ever played against and the one guy who he was afraid of.

Neely had 2 careers,the Tocchet/Roberts type early years and the Brett Hull type later years. Most people remember the big scoring years but I think his peak performance as a terrorizing power forward were his earlier Bruin years.
 

lextune

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I sort of agree.

But I saw every single game he played with the Bruins and even during his later, non-fighting years (if you will), when he was scoring even more (being out of the penalty box will help that) he was always a big physical presence. It was just the way he played.

That being said though, there definitely was a seismic change after the '88 finals, we decided we needed him on the damn ice more, lol. His penalty minutes went down from 190 to 117 and his goals went up from 37 to 55.
 

lextune

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There are two reasons that Neely's in the HHOF. And when you bring them together, he should be a no-brainer selection for the HHOF.

The first is definition. He DEFINED the power forward role. Every power forward that comes along for many, many years to come, will have Cam Neely as the measuring stick. It's a measuring stick that only one, Jarome Iginla, had matched. This is not to say that Neely was the first real power forward. He wasn't. Charlie Conacher was a power forward by every definition of the term. But Neely was the first one to get the label of the power forward. Every scout for the last 20 years has been searching for the next Cam Neely. Call it a hunch, I think they'll be seeking for the next Neely for the next 30 years.

Cam Neely is probably one of the 10 or 15 most important players from the game in the last 25 years.

The other reason is playoffs. One of the best playoff performers of his generation. Fourth in career post-season goals per game. Why did Roy hate playing Neely so much? Maybe it's because of the way Neely utterly dominated the Habs in 1988, when the Bruins ended a 40-year post-season drought against Montreal. Or maybe it was Neely's follow-up two years later, when Boston once again dominated the Habs. In 1991, he was an Ulf Samuelsson knee away from leading Boston back to the Cup (that hit changed the entire complexion of the series), and Neely would have certainly set a post-season goals record in the process. (He had 16 in the first three rounds). He had that big-game, high-pressure mentality that can't be taught. When the game was on the line, he wanted to be on the ice. He wanted to be the hero, and he had the ability to do it.

You can cite all the regular season statistical smoke and accolades you want. Personally, when it comes HHOFers, I'd vote for Neely, who defined the game, and dominated in the playoffs, ahead of guys with great career numbers, like an Adam Oates, or even a Dale Hawerchuk or a Denis Savard - great players deserving of the HHOF, but not guys who defined their role, who did things that will make them memorable 25 years from now.

Twenty-five years from now, when we're still searching for the next Neely, nobody will question his place in the HHOF. Those who were fortunate enough to watch him, with an unbiased eye, will rave about how fantastic he truly was.

I was. :)

And I do. :)

Great post. :yo:
 

BNHL

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I sort of agree.

But I saw every single game he played with the Bruins and even during his later, non-fighting years (if you will), when he was scoring even more (being out of the penalty box will help that) he was always a big physical presence. It was just the way he played.

That being said though, there definitely was a seismic change after the '88 finals, we decided we needed him on the damn ice more, lol. His penalty minutes went down from 190 to 117 and his goals went up from 37 to 55.

Milbury's implementation of no retaliation and take your whacks hockey coincided with Neely's changed style.There was talk that O'Reilly did not like the new style of Neely's game as his physical play really diminished in favor of looking to get open.
 

BNHL

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I sort of agree.

But I saw every single game he played with the Bruins and even during his later, non-fighting years (if you will), when he was scoring even more (being out of the penalty box will help that) he was always a big physical presence. It was just the way he played.

That being said though, there definitely was a seismic change after the '88 finals, we decided we needed him on the damn ice more, lol. His penalty minutes went down from 190 to 117 and his goals went up from 37 to 55.

....and Craig Janney.
 

lextune

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Well, Janney did become his center after the '88 finals, but Cam's goals actually dropped from 42 goals in 69 games with Linesman as his center to 37goals in 74 games his first year with Janney.....not saying it's was Janney's fault, just pointing it out....both those seasons Cam had way too many PIMs (175 & 190)

The big change definitely had more to do with staying out of the box.
 

BNHL

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Well, Janney did become his center after the '88 finals, but Cam's goals actually dropped from 42 goals in 69 games with Linesman as his center to 37goals in 74 games his first year with Janney.....not saying it's was Janney's fault, just pointing it out....both those seasons Cam had way too many PIMs (175 & 190)

The big change definitely had more to do with staying out of the box.

His style of play was much different when his goal scoring increased. He was no longer the constantly punishing forward but was now looking for open zones first. Though his GPG average went way up,my affinity for his play went down. Sure I loved the goals but at the cost of his ferocious pursuit and bodychecking. The 37 goal 190 PIM Neely should not be confused with the 55G 117 PIM or 51G 94 PIM Neely. They were distinctly different and had me yearning for the old Neely.
 

Dark Shadows

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His style of play was much different when his goal scoring increased. He was no longer the constantly punishing forward but was now looking for open zones first. Though his GPG average went way up,my affinity for his play went down. Sure I loved the goals but at the cost of his ferocious pursuit and bodychecking. The 37 goal 190 PIM Neely should not be confused with the 55G 117 PIM or 51G 94 PIM Neely. They were distinctly different and had me yearning for the old Neely.

Neely was still the punishing ferocious forechecker until his leg injury.

After that injury, he was unable to lay the same hits or to really go toe to toe in a fight night in night out because his balance was so wrecked. The other problem was that opposing teams were egging him into fights simply to get him in the box due to the lack of the instigator rule.
 

sunb

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There are two reasons that Neely's in the HHOF. And when you bring them together, he should be a no-brainer selection for the HHOF.

The first is definition. He DEFINED the power forward role. Every power forward that comes along for many, many years to come, will have Cam Neely as the measuring stick. It's a measuring stick that only one, Jarome Iginla, had matched. This is not to say that Neely was the first real power forward. He wasn't. Charlie Conacher was a power forward by every definition of the term. But Neely was the first one to get the label of the power forward. Every scout for the last 20 years has been searching for the next Cam Neely. Call it a hunch, I think they'll be seeking for the next Neely for the next 30 years.

Cam Neely is probably one of the 10 or 15 most important players from the game in the last 25 years.

The other reason is playoffs. One of the best playoff performers of his generation. Fourth in career post-season goals per game. Why did Roy hate playing Neely so much? Maybe it's because of the way Neely utterly dominated the Habs in 1988, when the Bruins ended a 40-year post-season drought against Montreal. Or maybe it was Neely's follow-up two years later, when Boston once again dominated the Habs. In 1991, he was an Ulf Samuelsson knee away from leading Boston back to the Cup (that hit changed the entire complexion of the series), and Neely would have certainly set a post-season goals record in the process. (He had 16 in the first three rounds). He had that big-game, high-pressure mentality that can't be taught. When the game was on the line, he wanted to be on the ice. He wanted to be the hero, and he had the ability to do it.

You can cite all the regular season statistical smoke and accolades you want. Personally, when it comes HHOFers, I'd vote for Neely, who defined the game, and dominated in the playoffs, ahead of guys with great career numbers, like an Adam Oates, or even a Dale Hawerchuk or a Denis Savard - great players deserving of the HHOF, but not guys who defined their role, who did things that will make them memorable 25 years from now.

Twenty-five years from now, when we're still searching for the next Neely, nobody will question his place in the HHOF. Those who were fortunate enough to watch him, with an unbiased eye, will rave about how fantastic he truly was.

Those who question Neely's place in the HHOF, have no idea what it takes to truly be great.

Outside of Messier, there hasn't been a better combination of goal scoring ability and physical play the last 30 years than Cam Neely.

And my arguments above are the reason I would vote for Theo Fleury, too. The arguments for Neely hold true for Theo, too. Theo was a magnificent playoff performer. It's too bad that his Calgary teammates didn't have Theo's big game mentality. Actually, as a Canucks fan, it's a good thing. If they did, Calgary beats us in 1994. And Theo defined his role. It's the opposite end of the spectrum, of course. Whereas Cam Neely defined the power forward role, Theo Fleury became the prototype and the measuring stick for small forwards - quick, highly skilled, but fearless, an all-out, all-heart, all-the-time force who took the hit to make the play, and wasn't afraid to hit much bigger players. A guy whose place in the game will grow as we get further removed from his best years.

The only thing that Theo doesn't have, that Neely had, was a spotless record, on and off the ice. And it's too bad. We're going to be looking for the next Theo for the next quarter century, too.

Do I think Theo gets in? Yes. I'm convinced of it. I might be an old fart when it happens. But I think he'll make it. The futher we're removed from the great seasons, such as his 50 goals in 1990-91 that made him such a great story, the more we'll marvel at the little dynamo. The more we'll realize that he was such a special, once in a lifetime type of player. And that's when he'll get in.

Outstanding post. This is one of the best I've ever read on hfboards.
 

dcinroc

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Whereas Cam Neely defined the power forward role, Theo Fleury became the prototype and the measuring stick for small forwards - quick, highly skilled, but fearless, an all-out, all-heart, all-the-time force who took the hit to make the play, and wasn't afraid to hit much bigger players.

I always thought of Marcel Dionne in that regard.

He was very hardworking (his nickname was "Little Beaver") and physical in his early days. Pretty fearless, too.
 

Big#D

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So what you are saying is for example a guy came into the league and scored 200 goals in a season then got into a car accident and lost his leg and was no longer able to play, he would not deserve to be in the hall of fame.

I know that is extreme, but to a lesser extent(goals and injury wise), that is what happened to Neely.

So what do you say?

Yes that is what I am saying. The guy's career does not show that he would continue to score 200 goals in each of his subsequent season, just that he did it once. Who knows if it was just a freak of nature or something he could continue to do. He could be equally likely to do poorly the rest of his career as be a superstar.

I'm sure the feat of scoring 200 goals in the season would be honoured in the Hall, but the player would not be a member. Much like Henderson's goal in '72 being commemorated in the Hall but that Henderson's career does not make him Hall worthy means he is not himself a member of the HoF.

To turn your question back on you, would you put a guy in Hall if he scored 200 goals in his first season and then for the next 10 years scored less than 10 points each season as a scrub on the 4th line?

The Hall does not (and should not IMO) recognize potential greatness. It recognizes greatness as shown throughout the career.
 

God Bless Canada

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I always thought of Marcel Dionne in that regard.

He was very hardworking (his nickname was "Little Beaver") and physical in his early days. Pretty fearless, too.
Dionne didn't have the physical dimension that Fleury brought. Dionne was fearless, no doubt about that. And most "small forwards" in the game are fearless. You have to be to compete at that level, especially if you're under six feet tall. Guys who aren't fearless, those who avoid the physical contact, who don't like playing along the boards and the corners, don't last very long.

But Fleury wasn't just a fearless guy. He didn't just take the hit to make the play. He battled hard along the boards. He finished his checks. He threw the hits against those six to eight inches taller. (Especially in his first few seasons). And, whether it's a good thing or not, he wasn't afraid to give a foe a jab with the stick.

Was Dionne the better player? Of course he was. But in terms of defining the small forward role, the guy that scouts are looking for to fill that role, it's Theo. He was just such an incredible player. And that, combined with his playoff performances, will get Theo Fleury into the HHOF. It'll just take time, and I'm talking a Kharlamov/Duff amount of time.
 

John Flyers Fan

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Well, I am still relatively new here so I am just coming across a lot of things that have probably already been discussed to death here. So for that I am sorry, but I have to address the inordinate amount of Neely bashing I seem to find in going through some of the threads here.

On that point I couldn't disagree more. He's generally one of the more revered and overrated players on these boards. If you never saw Neely play and you read these boards you would get the impression that he was a top 2-3 player in the league for a stretch of years, when in reality he was never a top 5 player ... and rarely if ever a top 10 player.
 

mrhockey193195

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For me, Cam Neely was on the fence for the HOF. Now that he's in, I don't have a problem with it, but I have a huge problem with the fact that there is so much opposition to Eric Lindros getting in (from many people who believed that Neely was a shoe-in).

Lindros dominated the game in a similar way. He was only guilty of continuing to play when his body clearly couldn't keep up. If Neely is in, Lindros has to be in IMO.

That's my main issue with everything surrounding Neely and the HOF.
 

BNHL

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Neely was still the punishing ferocious forechecker until his leg injury.

After that injury, he was unable to lay the same hits or to really go toe to toe in a fight night in night out because his balance was so wrecked. The other problem was that opposing teams were egging him into fights simply to get him in the box due to the lack of the instigator rule.

I wonder what it was I was left wanting at the time. Mike Milbury did in fact incorporate the "turn the other cheek" philosophy which took some bite out of everybody's game. Neely was also finding increased scoring success prior to the injuries from the circle (hardly any contact in that area). The 37 goal Cam was the corner man,the 50 goal scorer was the slot man. His ex coach Terry O'Reilly made the same observation that he now played more like Brett Hull and this was prior to the injuries. This is the point of his career that I preferred Rick Tocchet who was still playing with the snarl that Cam had been forced to release and with his goal scoring up he simply played differently. My favorite Bruins of all time-Orr,O'Reilly and the earlier version of Cam.
 

nmbr_24

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Yes that is what I am saying. The guy's career does not show that he would continue to score 200 goals in each of his subsequent season, just that he did it once. Who knows if it was just a freak of nature or something he could continue to do. He could be equally likely to do poorly the rest of his career as be a superstar.

I'm sure the feat of scoring 200 goals in the season would be honoured in the Hall, but the player would not be a member. Much like Henderson's goal in '72 being commemorated in the Hall but that Henderson's career does not make him Hall worthy means he is not himself a member of the HoF.

To turn your question back on you, would you put a guy in Hall if he scored 200 goals in his first season and then for the next 10 years scored less than 10 points each season as a scrub on the 4th line?

The Hall does not (and should not IMO) recognize potential greatness. It recognizes greatness as shown throughout the career.

Good question, like you said, his record would be in the hall but not him as a player. Neely never was a 4th line scrub, he defined what a power forward was and like other people have said, he is in the top 5 most dominating playoff performers ever, and he deserves to be in the Hall.
If you took 82 games as an average season, Neely averages 44 goals a year for his career for the amount of games he played,(if my math is correct). How many players in the history of the NHL have a goals per game average like that? Not too many I would guess.
He was definitely one of the top 5 goal scorers I have ever seen.
 

John Flyers Fan

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Good question, like you said, his record would be in the hall but not him as a player. Neely never was a 4th line scrub, he defined what a power forward was and like other people have said, he is in the top 5 most dominating playoff performers ever, and he deserves to be in the Hall.
If you took 82 games as an average season, Neely averages 44 goals a year for his career for the amount of games he played,(if my math is correct). How many players in the history of the NHL have a goals per game average like that? Not too many I would guess.
He was definitely one of the top 5 goal scorers I have ever seen.

No and No.
 

lextune

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No and No.
No?

Well, Cam is 4th all time in Playoff goals per game (among players with at least 50 playoff games played), after three guys named Lemieux, Bossy and Richard, (57 goals in 93 games).

...we also find him just ahead of some dude named Gretzky.......

That being said, he of course never won the cup, so I'm not sure I would call him a "dominating" playoff performer, but he sure as hell was a prolific playoff goal scorer.

Not sure what the 2nd "no" is about....he did say "one of the top 5 goal scorers I have ever seen."

....and that being said, Cam is also one of the one of the top 5 goal scorers I have ever seen.
 

John Flyers Fan

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No?

Well, Cam is 4th all time in Playoff goals per game (among players with at least 50 playoff games played), after three guys named Lemieux, Bossy and Richard, (57 goals in 93 games).

...we also find him just ahead of some dude named Gretzky.......

That being said, he of course never won the cup, so I'm not sure I would call him a "dominating" playoff performer, but he sure as hell was a prolific playoff goal scorer.

You said top 5 dominating playoff perfomers ever.

While Neely was an excellent postseason goal scorer, he wouldn't rank among the top 25 playoff performers of all-time.

He did next to nothing in his 2 appearances in the Finals, the Bruins going out with barely a whimper to Edmonton's 2 weakest Cup winners.

You have 4 multiple Conn Smythe winners, and a whole host of greats that played and dominated long before the Smythe was ever awarded.


Also Neely's GPG stat gets inflated because he never played as an older player, which eventually lowers your averages.
 

BNHL

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You said top 5 dominating playoff perfomers ever.

While Neely was an excellent postseason goal scorer, he wouldn't rank among the top 25 playoff performers of all-time.

He did next to nothing in his 2 appearances in the Finals, the Bruins going out with barely a whimper to Edmonton's 2 weakest Cup winners.

You have 4 multiple Conn Smythe winners, and a whole host of greats that played and dominated long before the Smythe was ever awarded.


Also Neely's GPG stat gets inflated because he never played as an older player, which eventually lowers your averages.

Bruins were simply overmatched and outskated but the second EDM-BOS final provided the B's with a great opportunity. Bourque said it was his greatest disappointment as he thought they matched up much better than the first time. Alas the Oilers were lead by league MVP Mark Messier.
 

Bruins4Lifer

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You said top 5 dominating playoff perfomers ever.

While Neely was an excellent postseason goal scorer, he wouldn't rank among the top 25 playoff performers of all-time.
I'd like to see your list that doesn't include him. His numbers don't lie and even they don't tell half the story.

He did next to nothing in his 2 appearances in the Finals, the Bruins going out with barely a whimper to Edmonton's 2 weakest Cup winners.
Weakest because they were the last 2 they won? Hard to call a team that loses only 2 games an entire playoffs weak. That 89-90 team without Gretzky was still loaded with talent. Much more so than the Neely-Bourque led Bruins. Take either of them off those teams and do they even make it out of the 1st round let alone sniff the Finals?

Also Neely's GPG stat gets inflated because he never played as an older player, which eventually lowers your averages.
Sure it could lower but you don't know by how much. Who's to say he doesn't score 40 as a 36 year old like Shanahan?
 

Big Phil

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50 goals in 49 games doesn't make you "shake"?

It sure gets me quivering. :nod:

But if you look overall in that year he only had 74 points in those 49 games. That's still good and it would have put him over 100 points for sure that year but it's still just a projection
 

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