Cam Neely - Just how good was he in his prime?

[Hardyvan123]

Esposito is one overrated guy IMO, all of his scoring peak is with Orr, he was a very good player before and after Orr but look at the stats and try to tell me that he wasn't riding on the coattails of Orr to a large degree.

Neely was quite a good player but IMO his elgacy has grown way too far into a legend for a couple of reasons.

1. The fans in Boston loved him and he is a Don Cheery favorite a lunch bucket guy with a good skill set

2. His peak seasons can be attributed in part to Adam Oates who had the same affect on Hull in St. Louis.

3. With the shortened career we never saw the drop off that comes with other players so we only see the "greatness" often in shortened seasons and extend that he would have kept the pace for an entire season which is unlikely, there is almost a drop of over a whole season.

 

[Briere Up There*]

Things like this is what keeps Lindros out of the hall.

That's a pretty stupid reason to keep a guy out of the Hall. Not that he deserves in anyways, but I don't think playing with an edge should hurt a guy's chances.

 

[Habsfunk]

Now that we mention Kevin Stevens, I will say that I am a person who values Stevens' career a lot more than some others. He isn't HHOF worthy because of a very short peak but if I had to pick either one of him or Leclair to go to the HHOF I would choose Stevens.

I would take Tkachuk over either of them, but that's neither here nor there.

As for Neely, I just remember how the Habs couldn't beat the Bruins in the playoffs when he played. He was a beast that had Roy's number and could beat him a dozen different ways.

 

[jkrx]

That's a pretty stupid reason to keep a guy out of the Hall. Not that he deserves in anyways, but I don't think playing with an edge should hurt a guy's chances.

It's not playing with an edge when you delibritely try to injure another player like that.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's not playing with an edge when you delibritely try to injure another player like that.

I agree with you totally. That is the reason Scott Stevens will always be on my **** list even though his hits were "clean".

Of course with all the Pejorative Slured hits going on the last few years he definitely isn't the only one.

 

[lextune]

Yeah not really close with all due respect to Neely. Esposito is a player that you can compare to some all-time greats. Most of us would take Esposito over Messier. Esposito is also a good comparison with Jagr (what he did in his career, not style wise). So really Neely has no chance here.

But he was more physical for sure. Could fight much better. But Espo was the better leader, goal scorer, playmaker. He won 5 Art Ross Trophies while Neely was never once in the top 10 in scoring. Easy decision.

^This.

....and I am Cam's biggest backer.

 

[lextune]

2. His peak seasons can be attributed in part to Adam Oates who had the same affect on Hull in St. Louis.

....Totally wrong.

Three of his four All-Star seasons came before Oates.

By the time Oates came along Cam was a shadow of his former self; skating on one leg. They only had one real season together, (50 in 44), and even then Cam only played every other game or so.

Cam's prime/peak was from '87 to '91.....and Oates arrived in '92.

 

[Briere Up There*]

It's not playing with an edge when you delibritely try to injure another player like that.

I suppose it isn't something that should be encouraged. Still plenty of guys have stupid plays and are in the Hall. Lindros shouldn't get in because he didn't sustain his excellence long enough, not some dumb play.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

So how many players in the history of the NHL scored 50 goals in less then 44 games?
HOF WORTHY!

 

[jkrx]

I suppose it isn't something that should be encouraged. Still plenty of guys have stupid plays and are in the Hall. Lindros shouldn't get in because he didn't sustain his excellence long enough, not some dumb play.

Ofcourse it's not just of one dumb play. Lindros made many of those dumb plays which made the bullseye on his forehead even larger. And by constantly skating with his head down into the offensive zone or cross ice, he doomed his own career.

 

[Hardyvan123]

....Totally wrong.

Three of his four All-Star seasons came before Oates.

By the time Oates came along Cam was a shadow of his former self; skating on one leg. They only had one real season together, (50 in 44), and even then Cam only played every other game or so.

Cam's prime/peak was from '87 to '91.....and Oates arrived in '92.

Okay his best season, the one everyone always talks about came with Oates, before that he had a pretty good set up man in Craig Janney.

Neely has adjusted seasons of 53, , 51, 51, 49 goals in his peak. His next best is 39. The argument will be well he was injured and that's the point the HHHOF is for what players did, not what they might have done.

He did reach the top 10 in actual goals scored in 4 seasons 2, 3,8 and 9th place showing but he never was the type of goal scorer that Pavel Bure was.

There is no doubt in my mind that Neely would be a legit HHOF if he did not have those injury problems but his inclusion into the Hall has opened up a real Pandora's box with other player, most notably Bure and Lindros being left out.

The only reason that Neely is in and the other 2 are out is because Neely was well liked where Bure and Lindros were not as popular with hockey people and fans.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Okay his best season, the one everyone always talks about came with Oates, before that he had a pretty good set up man in Craig Janney.

Neely has adjusted seasons of 53, , 51, 51, 49 goals in his peak. His next best is 39. The argument will be well he was injured and that's the point the HHHOF is for what players did, not what they might have done.

He did reach the top 10 in actual goals scored in 4 seasons 2, 3,8 and 9th place showing but he never was the type of goal scorer that Pavel Bure was.

There is no doubt in my mind that Neely would be a legit HHOF if he did not have those injury problems but his inclusion into the Hall has opened up a real Pandora's box with other player, most notably Bure and Lindros being left out.

The only reason that Neely is in and the other 2 are out is because Neely was well liked where Bure and Lindros were not as popular with hockey people and fans.

And more importantly, not popular with their teammates.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Esposito is one overrated guy IMO, all of his scoring peak is with Orr, he was a very good player before and after Orr but look at the stats and try to tell me that he wasn't riding on the coattails of Orr to a large degree.Neely was quite a good player but IMO his elgacy has grown way too far into a legend for a couple of reasons.

1. The fans in Boston loved him and he is a Don Cheery favorite a lunch bucket guy with a good skill set

2. His peak seasons can be attributed in part to Adam Oates who had the same affect on Hull in St. Louis.

3. With the shortened career we never saw the drop off that comes with other players so we only see the "greatness" often in shortened seasons and extend that he would have kept the pace for an entire season which is unlikely, there is almost a drop of over a whole season.

This argument has been slapped down so many times in these history threads its not worth going over again.

The fact is that when Canada played the Soviets in the Summit series, Espo was not only the best player in the series, but the unquestioned leader of Team Canada. No Orr on that team.

And that's some kind of ironic mispelling of Don Cherry.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I suppose it isn't something that should be encouraged. Still plenty of guys have stupid plays and are in the Hall. Lindros shouldn't get in because he didn't sustain his excellence long enough, not some dumb play.

Exactly, a Gordie Howe special wasn't just a cool catch phrase and Messier delivered more cheap and ridiculously dirty hits then you can count, hits that were as bad and worse than what Cormier lost his QMJHL season for.

 

[Hardyvan123]

This argument has been slapped down so many times in these history threads its not worth going over again.

The fact is that when Canada played the Soviets in the Summit series, Espo was not only the best player in the series, but the unquestioned leader of Team Canada. No Orr on that team.

And that's some kind of ironic mispelling of Don Cherry.

Hey Don is one happy fellow..lol

Okay, i guess we are going to rate guys on less than 10 game series.

The question is do you think that Espostio is really as good as his stats indicate or is there a Bobby Orr factor involved it's pretty clear to me that his stats before and after Orr in the NHL are of a good but not great player and with Orr there become much greater.

It's pretty clear that when you go through the stats he benefits greatly from playing with Orr and that Boston offense from 67-75 and it's not like he was playing with bums on the Chicago team before and the rangers team afterwords either.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Hey Don is one happy fellow..lol

Okay, i guess we are going to rate guys on less than 10 game series.

The question is do you think that Espostio is really as good as his stats indicate or is there a Bobby Orr factor involved it's pretty clear to me that his stats before and after Orr in the NHL are of a good but not great player and with Orr there become much greater.

It's pretty clear that when you go through the stats he benefits greatly from playing with Orr and that Boston offense from 67-75 and it's not like he was playing with bums on the Chicago team before and the rangers team afterwords either.

Being in the History site, you should realize the Summit Series was more that just an 8 game series, it was THE Series. Perhaps you didn't see it.

Espo was 25 when he came to the Bruins, 33 when he was traded. That was just about everyone's prime at that time in the NHL. Maybe Espo just wasn't that good any more when he got to the Rangers. By the way, the Rangers were bums. The year Espo was traded to them the only teams that allowed more goals were the Washington Capitals & Kansas City Scouts.

The year before Espo came to the Bruins, they were 17-43-10, dead last, with Bobby Orr. In his first season with the B's, they were 37-27-10 and Orr only played 46 games.

Espo's linemates when he was shattering NHL scoring records were Hodge & Cashman, not exactly all-time greats. Orr wasn't out there every time Espo was.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Being in the History site, you should realize the Summit Series was more that just an 8 game series, it was THE Series. Perhaps you didn't see it.

Espo was 25 when he came to the Bruins, 33 when he was traded. That was just about everyone's prime at that time in the NHL. Maybe Espo just wasn't that good any more when he got to the Rangers. By the way, the Rangers were bums. The year Espo was traded to them the only teams that allowed more goals were the Washington Capitals & Kansas City Scouts.

The year before Espo came to the Bruins, they were 17-43-10, dead last, with Bobby Orr. In his first season with the B's, they were 37-27-10 and Orr only played 46 games.

Espo's linemates when he was shattering NHL scoring records were Hodge & Cashman, not exactly all-time greats. Orr wasn't out there every time Espo was.

There's actually seasons where more than half the top 10 point leaders played for Boston at one time. It's idiotic to suggest anyones numbers weren't bolstered on that team. There's also the shorter Boston rink which no doubt gave them an advantage as well as a stacked team/Bobby Orr.

 

[BraveCanadian]

There's actually seasons where more than half the top 10 point leaders played for Boston at one time. It's idiotic to suggest anyones numbers weren't bolstered on that team. There's also the shorter Boston rink which no doubt gave them an advantage as well as a stacked team/Bobby Orr.

Yeah that was one stacked stacked stacked team and they complemented each other.

Of course they had better numbers playing together than any of them did apart.

This is also the reason you have to take that +124 with a grain of salt. I think the one season the B's just missed 400 goals for and had just over 200 goals against.

They were a ridiculously good team for a while. It didn't all begin and end with Bobby.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

There's actually seasons where more than half the top 10 point leaders played for Boston at one time. It's idiotic to suggest anyones numbers weren't bolstered on that team. There's also the shorter Boston rink which no doubt gave them an advantage as well as a stacked team/Bobby Orr.

"Esposito is one overrated guy IMO, all of his scoring peak is with Orr, he was a very good player before and after Orr but look at the stats and try to tell me that he wasn't riding on the coattails of Orr to a large degree."

This was the point I was addressing. Not that playing on a great team didn't help his numbers, but that he was riding the coattails of Orr and was therefore greatly overrated.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Shorter Rink

There's actually seasons where more than half the top 10 point leaders played for Boston at one time. It's idiotic to suggest anyones numbers weren't bolstered on that team. There's also the shorter Boston rink which no doubt gave them an advantage as well as a stacked team/Bobby Orr.

Shorter rink worked against Bobby Orr as he had less room to work with and the opposition,if they could play defense, had an advantage since they did not have to defend a regulation size rink.

Also in the old Boston Garden the benches were side by side - one stride apart which helped defense if the team knew what it was doing.

 

[jkrx]

"Esposito is one overrated guy IMO, all of his scoring peak is with Orr, he was a very good player before and after Orr but look at the stats and try to tell me that he wasn't riding on the coattails of Orr to a large degree."

This was the point I was addressing. Not that playing on a great team didn't help his numbers, but that he was riding the coattails of Orr and was therefore greatly overrated.

He has played without Orr both in Boston and on Team Canada and still played great.

 

[vivianmb]

Ofcourse it's not just of one dumb play. Lindros made many of those dumb plays which made the bullseye on his forehead even larger. And by constantly skating with his head down into the offensive zone or cross ice, he doomed his own career.

this. he was hated by many for many difft reasons.
he didnt respect the game or its players. and not too many were sad when stevens got him.

 

[Rhiessan71]

this. he was hated by many for many difft reasons.
he didnt respect the game or its players. and not too many were sad when stevens got him.

Does anyone here think it's easily forgotten that he spat in the face of the league and refused to honour his draft selection.
Say what you want but that is still a big deal and imo the biggest reason why he will not be in the HoF quickly.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Does anyone here think it's easily forgotten that he spat in the face of the league and refused to honour his draft selection.
Say what you want but that is still a big deal and imo the biggest reason why he will not be in the HoF quickly.

I don't think anyone has forgotten his prima donna attitude and I think that is the main reason for the skew affecting how people view his career.

People are letting their dislike of him cloud their memory of just how good he was in his prime.

Neely is the opposite.. he was a great guy and a great player so his career just keeps inflating as time goes by.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Neely is the opposite.. he was a great guy and a great player so his career just keeps inflating as time goes by.

I don't think you can seriously call any player that got better than 50 in 50 while having his career shortened as much as his was inflated.

His limited playing time is what's keeping him from the HoF so far and how he played in that limited time is what gives him the possibility.