Player Discussion Cam Fowler

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Well, Cam confirms it...

It's been an arduous road for Fowler to get to this point. During his second season, the Ducks changed coaches and Fowler muddled through a minus-28 rating.

He needed the next couple of seasons to build his confidence, and it culminated with his selection to the U.S. team for the 2014 Olympics. Fowler was the second-youngest player on the roster at 22.

"I think that kind of got the ball rolling," Fowler said. "I've said this before: I've always been hard on myself and lacked a little bit of confidence in what I could do on the ice and was worried about making mistakes. Once I got over that, I'm just able to play without the fear of messing up."[/URL]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-ducks-cam-fowler-20151216-story.html

 

[DaDucks*]

Like I said, you could see it in his eyes.

Case closed.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Well, Cam confirms it...



http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-ducks-cam-fowler-20151216-story.html

****, Bieksa? Can't avoid that dude spoiling stuff for me even with 6 and 5 days gap in the schedule. Thanks Zupke.

 

[Sojourn]

Well, Cam confirms it...



http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-ducks-cam-fowler-20151216-story.html

I still think he can do even more. There's another level there.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Like I said, you could see it in his eyes.

Case closed.

Well, I say he's scared of contact and easily intimidated around physical opponents, and you say he's more concerned about making a mistake while taking a "risk." To each his own I guess. I'm sure we will have a clear cut answer after playoffs this year.

"I think that kind of got the ball rolling," Fowler said. "I've said this before: I've always been hard on myself and lacked a little bit of confidence in what I could do on the ice and was worried about making mistakes. Once I got over that, I'm just able to play without the fear of messing up."

Yes, case closed, you were wrong, Sojourn was right.

 

[camshaft]

You can just copy and paste the address into your reply.

Thanks for that.

 

[DaDucks*]

Yes, case closed, you were wrong, Sojourn was right.

You think he's going to admit that's he's scared of taking a big hit again? What's the reasoning behind him not skating down the middle of the ice and other dangerous areas? Or Passing the puck prematurely leading to lower possession numbers?

I was always told he's concerned about covering for his partners.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Cam had an issue with hearing footsteps before. I haven't seen much of it lately though. He was great in the playoffs.

 

[Vipers31]

What's the reasoning behind him not skating down the middle of the ice and other dangerous areas?

Because that's usually one of the safest ways to lose possession, get caught, and face an outnumbered attack - which one may also refer to as "making a mistake".

He can do a better job of assessing the situations when the odds are good enough to make such plays, sure. But there's just nothing left to suggest that he's scared of the physicality. Well, except for that uncanny ability to read eyes.

I was always told he's concerned about covering for his partners.

Leaving your partner uncovered by going deep more often like you want him to is both a consideration of less than steady partners, and a mistake. What was suggested and what Cam says goes hand in hand, while your take goes a different direction.

 

[DaDucks*]

Because that's usually one of the safest ways to lose possession, get caught, and face an outnumbered attack - which one may also refer to as "making a mistake".

He can do a better job of assessing the situations when the odds are good enough to make such plays, sure. But there's just nothing to suggest that he's scared of the physicality. Well, except for that uncanny ability to read eyes.


Leaving your partner uncovered by going deep more often like you want him to is both a consideration of less than steady partners, and a mistake. What was suggested and what Cam says goes hand in hand, while your take goes a different direction.

It's also the best way to get a scoring chance. We had Scotty in the past, and now we have Sami going to the risky areas at the end of the game taking calculated risks trying to even the score. We've seen Cam do it before, but he prefers not too, sorry but I don't believe he's worried about turning it over with sub 3 minutes left when we are losing. It's also the constitution behind his lack of numbers since his rookie season.

 

[Vipers31]

It's also the best way to get a scoring chance. We had Scotty in the past, and now we have Sami going to the risky areas at the end of the game taking calculated risks trying to even the score.

Not sure Sami is always the best at calculating, but yes, I'd say Cam doesn't have Scotty's or Sami's puck skills or ability to move through tight spaces. As a result, his calculations lead to a different result, and end up with different correct results.

 

[DaDucks*]

Not sure Sami is always the best at calculating, but yes, I'd say Cam doesn't have Scotty's or Sami's puck skills or ability to move through tight spaces. As a result, his calculations lead to a different result, and end up with different correct results.

he's not there with Scotty, but he definitely possess the ability to be a very big threat, we've seen it before. Or maybe you've missed it since it's difficult for you to watch most games due to the time zone. (For the uncanny remark)

 

[Vipers31]

he's not there with Scotty, but he definitely possess the ability to be a very big threat, we've seen it before.

If you mean that rookie season, he was a bigger threat, but both ways. He tried it more often, which sometimes worked, but more often didn't so it came naturally that he'd adapt his decision making process. I personally don't see him as that much more of a dangler like Sami. That has really never been a particularly strong suit of his. That's not how he came by his points even back in juniors.

Given his current play, I'd just be content with letting him move in this direction and not force him into situations which are questionable to match his best use.

 

[DaDucks*]

Not sure Sami is always the best at calculating, but yes, I'd say Cam doesn't have Scotty's or Sami's puck skills or ability to move through tight spaces. As a result, his calculations lead to a different result, and end up with different correct results.

Double post

 

[Ducks DVM]

You think he's going to admit that's he's scared of taking a big hit again? What's the reasoning behind him not skating down the middle of the ice and other dangerous areas? Or Passing the puck prematurely leading to lower possession numbers?

I was always told he's concerned about covering for his partners.

I think that if you're going to use a player's own words to say "case closed" about an argument, that you should make sure that the quote isn't almost verbatim the other person's argument.

 

[DaDucks*]

I think that if you're going to use a player's own words to say "case closed" about an argument, that you should make sure that the quote isn't almost verbatim the other person's argument.

its one thing to be worried about making mistakes, and it's another to have doubt and confidence issues, which is what Cam is saying here and falls under the umbrella of my arguments. Myself, and others Have brought up concerns about his confidence, and it was never validated by Cam's biggest fans.

So yes, case closed.

 

[Ducks DVM]

its one thing to be worried about making mistakes, and it's another to have doubt and confidence issues, which is what Cam is saying here and falls under the umbrella of my arguments. Myself, and others Have brought up concerns about his confidence, and it was never validated by Cam's biggest fans.

So yes, case closed.

The only case that was closed was that Sojourn was right. I quoted your actual argument from the whole "eyes" discussion.Here it is again, because it appears you've forgotten it and/or didn't read it, because that was NOT what you were saying at all. You were clearly implying he was tentative because he was afraid of being hurt, not that he had "doubt and confidence issues".

Well, I say he's scared of contact and easily intimidated around physical opponents, and you say he's more concerned about making a mistake while taking a "risk." To each his own I guess. I'm sure we will have a clear cut answer after playoffs this year.

Own it. You're trying to grasp onto the fact that he admitted to a fear of something to extrapolate that into your (completely unproven) assertion that he was afraid of contact was MORE right. There's no possible reading of those two quotes that provides a "case closed" interpretation, unless you're ALSO saying that Sojourn was the one who was actually on point.

 

[DaDucks*]

If you think my countless arguments about Cam are all on the basis of him being scared to take contact, you are incorrect. That particular quote, I believe was in the context of the playoffs where hitting is increased.

 

[Ducks DVM]

If you think my countless arguments about Cam are all on the basis of him being scared to take contact, you are incorrect. That particular quote, I believe was in the context of the playoffs where hitting is increased.

Nope, it was from January, during the "Cam has no penalties" discussion.

I'm saving up a majority of comments about Cam until after this season, but the zero penalty minutes really isn't that surprising. He has zero tenacity in the physical side of the game. I'd probably prefer him not trying to add it in his game, he clearly doesn't want to, and I don't want him to be uncomfortable. Cam totally strikes me as a guy that would retire early for being forced to add contact to his game. Look into Cam's eyes the next time he gets hit, tells you everything to you need to know.

I'm pretty sure you'll see his eyes on where the play is, since that's basically what every player should be focusing on. I'm sure you can see the fear in his eyes from a tv screen though, or worse, at the pond. That doesn't sound completely far fetched at all.

The only thing I'd really like to see more of, as far as penalties go, is stick work in front of the net. He needs to get a little dirty, and make people more uncomfortable in front of the net. He actually has a tendency to throw out short cross checks, but those are rarely called, and he just doesn't do much more than that. Things like trips, hooking, and high sticking has nothing to do with good defense. That's often just being careless, and it often means you're on the wrong side of a player. That can be because you screwed up, or it can be because you aren't taking risks. The latter thing, to me, is the issue. It isn't some fear of contact, or being afraid of getting hit, or your even more ridiculous suggestion that he is the type to retire because of contact. It's because he isn't taking risks. That's what you should be focusing on, and that's what he needs to do more of. It isn't a sign of poor defense or not trying hard enough, it's a sign of being too conservative and not taking enough chances.

Well, I say he's scared of contact and easily intimidated around physical opponents, and you say he's more concerned about making a mistake while taking a "risk." To each his own I guess. I'm sure we will have a clear cut answer after playoffs this year.

Yeah, somehow I doubt that. It isn't a short-term answer.

Seems pretty clear cut that the article only backs up one of your positions. His playoffs pretty much blew up your predictions anyway.

You kinda doubled down with this though :

kinda reminds me of our debate over whether or not his slapshot would improve over time

Wasn't your debate that a slap shot is a natural skill, and not really a skill you can work on? Yeah... that wasn't really a debate. You were just mistaken on that. That's like suggesting puck handling or skating isn't trainable.

The part of the convo I was referring to was the part where I said Cam's shot wouldn't improve over time, you disagreed.

You then rehash the entire Fowler will/won't be a 1D ever.

Again, if the case is closed here, it's not in the directions you were hoping for.

 

[Sojourn]

Cam's shot has definitely taken a nice step forward this season. The results haven't quite come yet, in that regards, but he's creating opportunities with it.

I'm still not sure how someone could conclude it isn't a trainable skill. That isn't even something that you realize from playing hockey. Or even sports in general. It should be obvious that, like any skill, you can improve with hard work and proper training.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I'd like to think that given what we've seen so far this year, Cam may still have a little offensive growth left in him. Even before the article I stated that he looked much more confident in the O zone. I love that he seems to blast away now, from the point. He wants the puck. He's even firing one timers. You don't have to have a Weber slap shot to be effective from there. Getting that puck on net from the point keeps the D more honest and unable to collapse as much.

He may never be the dazzling dangler his skating would lead some to think he would be, but as long as he can hang on to that new found confidence he is a definite 40-50 point scorer. Assuming we had enough forward fire power not to be at the bottom of the league in scoring. Add that to his D play and he might still yet become better than McIlrath. [Insert tongue in cheek emoji here.]

 

[DaDucks*]

Ohhh yeah, it was in context to why he had zero minor penalties over half way though the season. If you want to believe he isn't scared of contact and why he reluctant to go to the dangerous offensive zones post Stoll and Doan hits, that's fine.

Again, the reason why I said "case closed," is because of the fact he admitted to having confidence issues, in which case I believe are completely unwarranted because of his high skill abilities. A 50 plus point rookie season and the fact he's one of the best skaters in the league and a very good defender, has given me all the reasons why to look towards the fear element, whether it's based around contact or mental. He will never admitt to being scared, but given the reasons above, that's my reasoning behind my conclusions.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Ohhh yeah, it was in context to why he had zero minor penalties over half way though the season. If you want to believe he isn't scared of contact and why he reluctant to go to the dangerous offensive zones post Stoll and Doan hits, that's fine.

Again, the reason why I said "case closed," is because of the fact he admitted to having confidence issues, in which case I believe are completely unwarranted because of his high skill abilities. A 50 plus point rookie season and the fact he's one of the best skaters in the league and a very good defender, has given me all the reasons why to look towards the fear element, whether it's based around contact or mental. He will never admitt to being scared, but given the reasons above, that's my reasoning behind my conclusions.

Say "Sojourn was right". Even if you can't say "I was wrong", say "Sojourn was right". It won't kill you.

 

[DaDucks*]

Say "Sojourn was right". Even if you can't say "I was wrong", say "Sojourn was right". It won't kill you.

Apparently I was wrong taking Soj out of context. Where did I get the idea that he suggested he had confidence issues to begin with?

Regardless, it's always been about his partner, or the coaching, or the forwards, it was never about Cam himself. I've always suggested otherwise. Both sides of the argument have never disputed his talent, so we are left to speculate. Conclusively, I am and continue to be, closer to the truth.

 

[Sojourn]

The denial is strong in this one.

I've stayed out of this so far, but let's take a look, shall we?

1. You said Fowler's shot couldn't improve. Not wouldn't. Couldn't. A player either has it, or he doesn't. That's what you said. You even said Sbisa was more likely to become a smarter player, than it was likely Fowler's shot would improve.

You were wrong. Fowler's shot has improved, so it obviously can. I haven't seen enough of Sbisa lately to say he hasn't been playing smarter on a more consistent basis, but I have seen enough of him to say he's still an idiot.

2. You said Fowler was afraid of being hit. To the point where you actually said you could see him retiring to avoid playing a more physical game. The ridiculousness of that aside, you dismissed the possibility that he was just playing conservatively because he was afraid of making mistakes. No, not afraid. Afraid of making mistakes.

You were wrong. Only now you're actually trying to completely ignore what Fowler said, or what he has shown in his play, to suggest that you're right and he'll just never admit it.

3. You scoffed at the possibility of Fowler ever being a #1 defenseman.

Here we are, and he's, at the very least, on the cusp of becoming exactly that.

You're 0 for 3 here, DaDucks, and hilariously, you're still trying to take the stand that you're right. Or, if not right, more right than others. Like I said, hilarious. I'm not going to pat myself on the back here. All I did was use logic against you. Common sense. There was no great insight here. But man, you are really embarrassing yourself here.