Player Discussion Cam Fowler

[anezthes]

There's a lot of crazy people in this world.


Smwvzfugt.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Holy eff that thread is embarrasingly bad. Half of the thread titles on the main boards give me an urge to slap someone, but that one is on another level.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Using the same McIlrath logic, Gibson>Price.

 

[snarktacular]

Apparently Fowler is stuck in some kind of 2010 timewarp.

 

[HanSolo]

My brain hurts after reading that thread.

 

[anezthes]

Don't care much at all about advanced stats, but I had to look up CF% for a few players.

ARZ
OEL - 49.5

NSH
Barret Jackman - 63.5
Roman Josi - 49.3

CHI
Brent Seabrook - 47.5

BUF
Rasmus Ristolainen - 46.1
Mike Weber - 56.8

WPG
Tyler Myers - 49.5
Mathieu Perreault - 58.6

TBL
Stamkos - 48.6
Palat - 47.8

PIT
Crosby - 46.0
Letang - 48.3

NYI
Tavares - 48.2
Boychuk - 48.2

TOR
Morgan Rielly - 47.1
Daniel Winnik - 42.5
JVR - 56.2

NYR
McDonagh - 44.2
Every single Ranger is below 50, except McIlrath and Yandle.

WSH
Carlson - 49.7
Kuz - 49.7
Ovi - 56.1

ANA
Lindholm - 56.3
Fowler - 49.7
Vatanen - 51.7

Source: http://www.puckalytics.com/skatercorsistats.html

 

[SmokeyDuck]

What does that mean? Is a higher number better. And what does it represent?

 

[anezthes]

What does that mean? Is a higher number better. And what does it represent?

It means Fowler sucks and McIlrath is awesome.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Funny I found this explaining the inaccuracy of corsi and it perfectly describes the McIlrath vs Fowler debate.

For example, a player is on the ice for 30 shots on net and 20 shots against. This player is a defensive defenseman, and in this situation he only helped create 5 shots on net but his mistakes led to 15 shots against. This tells us his real impact on the game is -10 Corsi, but on the game sheet at the end of the game his Corsi number will be +10.[7] This is because he was playing with better players around him and that boosted his Corsi number. Essentially, a good player playing consistently with bad players will get hammered by Corsi, while a good player playing with great players will get a boost. In this sense, Corsi is not the greatest tool for determining a player’s usefulness to his team and his impact on the game.

 

[anezthes]

As far as I know, it doesn't take "shot quality" (high/low scoring chance) into account either, does it?

 

[Frosted Tips]

Did I understand right... that Fowler, after 373 games, needs to prove himself more in order to be qualified to be compared to Dylan ******* McIlrath?

You know what? I'm gonna go grab a shovel and dig myself a nice warm cave with no internet.

 

[crowi]

That thread was truly something I will remember. Holy ****.

 

[Kalv]

I am a bit dissapointed for lack of responses (bad timing, second to last post in a page) but still got those 2 gems:

First response: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=110711871&postcount=325

Second: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=110712735&postcount=326


Look, i agree that Folwer might not be the type Rangers need right now but getting a top 3 for a B level prospect, you have to take it

It`s like us turning down Seabrook for Wagner (who is already in Col but you got the point)

 

[George Binks]

Did I understand right... that Fowler, after 373 games, needs to prove himself more in order to be qualified to be compared to Dylan ******* McIlrath?

You know what? I'm gonna go grab a shovel and dig myself a nice warm cave with no internet.

And don't forget it, but seriously there are actually posters on here that believe that

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I am a bit dissapointed for lack of responses (bad timing, second to last post in a page) but still got those 2 gems:

First response: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=110711871&postcount=325

Second: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=110712735&postcount=326


Look, i agree that Folwer might not be the type Rangers need right now but getting a top 3 for a B level prospect, you have to take it

It`s like us turning down Seabrook for Wagner (who is already in Col but you got the point)

I've never seen anything so stupid in my life, even on HF. The guy had 10 games as a sheltered bottom pairing guy and he now is HOF material. UFB.

I can hardly wait until reality sets in and the dream is shattered.

 

[Sojourn]

To be fair, I do think McIlrath will end up being a pretty solid top 4 guy. I think he would have been a good choice a little further down the draft, but with guys like Tarasenko and Fowler on the board, that was a bad call. He doesn't begin to come close to them.

But yeah, he's had protected minutes, is seeing favorable zone starts, and is playing with Keith Yandle(who also thrives in that environment). It's very much an ideal situation for a rookie defenseman. Which isn't a bad thing at all. You want to put a rookie player in a position to succeed. But this is the Sbisa effect all over again.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

To be fair, I do think McIlrath will end up being a pretty solid top 4 guy. I think he would have been a good choice a little further down the draft, but with guys like Tarasenko and Fowler on the board, that was a bad call. He doesn't begin to come close to them.

But yeah, he's had protected minutes, is seeing favorable zone starts, and is playing with Keith Yandle(who also thrives in that environment). It's very much an ideal situation for a rookie defenseman. Which isn't a bad thing at all. You want to put a rookie player in a position to succeed. But this is the Sbisa effect all over again.

But I'll bet you wouldn't start a MB thread after 10 games to announce your opinion to the world.

It does make me wonder, did Ducksgo move to NY and become a Ranger fan with a new account?

 

[Sojourn]

But I'll bet you wouldn't start a MB thread after 10 games to announce your opinion to the world.

It does make me wonder, did Ducksgo move to NY and become a Ranger fan with a new account?

Because after 10 games, it's ****ing stupid.

Inexperienced players fade. Hell, even veteran stars fade. That's not any kind of surprise. That's even before you up their responsibilities and give them more of a look at what the NHL really demands(sans kid gloves). I'd wait until at least the 42 game mark to really start judging an inexperienced player. Maybe draw some conclusions before, and get an idea what their potential -could- be, but what they can actually contribute over the course of a full season? They have to at least see a fair bit of that full season first.

I suspect it was just an attempt to get some relief from the mockery they drew for passing on guys like Tarasenko and Fowler, to draft a player who hadn't played more than a couple of games until 5/6 years after the draft.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Because after 10 games, it's ****ing stupid.

Inexperienced players fade. Hell, even veteran stars fade. That's not any kind of surprise. That's even before you up their responsibilities and give them more of a look at what the NHL really demands(sans kid gloves). I'd wait until at least the 42 game mark to really start judging an inexperienced player. Maybe draw some conclusions before, and get an idea what their potential -could- be, but what they can actually contribute over the course of a full season? They have to at least see a fair bit of that full season first.

I suspect it was just an attempt to get some relief from the mockery they drew for passing on guys like Tarasenko and Fowler, to draft a player who hadn't played more than a couple of games until 5/6 years after the draft.

All the more reason you don't jump the gun. Let sleeping dogs lie until you really have something to pound your chest about. Assuming it ever happens.

 

[Sojourn]

It's not like people start threads and bring it up all the friggen time. Though, I'm sure it gets brought up occasionally when Tarasenko or Fowler are discussed. They seem to have a real dislike of anything Fowler does.

I guess it's just a bitter topic.

 

[Paul4587]

I just can't anyone believes a dozen games of looking like a very good 3rd pairing guy is anywhere near the equivalent of 5 seasons of being a top 4 guy, with flashes of being a good top pairing guy. One guy keeps going on about corsi, completely ignoring zone starts, quality of competition and quality of team-mates.

I thought even the biggest homers could be a little more more objective than that.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Who knew we traded a former blue chip prospect in the Kesler trade.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

I just can't anyone believes a dozen games of looking like a very good 3rd pairing guy is anywhere near the equivalent of 5 seasons of being a top 4 guy, with flashes of being a good top pairing guy. One guy keeps going on about corsi, completely ignoring zone starts, quality of competition and quality of team-mates.

I thought even the biggest homers could be a little more more objective than that.

The guy claims to not be a homer and nonbiased but he is literally the definition of a homer.

 

[camshaft]

L.A. Times has a nice article on Cam in tommorrow's (Friday)paper. Sorry, I don't know how to link article. I would welcome help on how to link articles for future articles.

 

[Ducks DVM]

L.A. Times has a nice article on Cam in tommorrow's (Friday)paper. Sorry, I don't know how to link article. I would welcome help on how to link articles for future articles.

You can just copy and paste the address into your reply.