Proposal: Calgary - Colorado

[Captain Controversy]

Sam Bennet + Oliver kylington for Matt duchene.

Calgary gains center depth also with the option of sloting in duchene into the top right wing.
Gives Calgary a mean faceoff guy with speed to help the offence and contend in the west.

Colorado gains a potential in Bennett and a up and coming d man in kylington.

If there is pieces to be added. Balance it out.

Click to read more...

 

[CraigsList]

Sam Bennett signed for 2-3 years at 2-3m + Kylington >>>> Duchene for 2 years.

We can't fit Duchene on our team unless Brouwer goes the other way... And that means we'd have to add more for them to take him off the books.

 

[FerklundCGY]

No thanks from the Flames. Duchene would provide a major upgrade in the short term but the Flames want to remain competitive for years. While it's clear Treliving thinks we're ready to win now, he's also clearly setting us up for the next several years as he hopes Parsons or Gillies develop into the goalies we think they could become.

Trading Bennett and Kylington would set us back a bit after everything Treliving has done to build this team.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Came pessimistically expecting Bennett+ for Duchene.
Left disappointing it was Bennett+ for Duchene.

Seriously though, it starts with term.
Matt Duchene has two years to UFA.
Sam Bennett has six years to UFA.

Then there's the fact that both are left shots. So Duchene would have the same issues finding a fit on our power play that Bennett has. Is Duchene going to force Gaudreau or Monahan to PP2? I doubt that very much. He would end up being one of the forward pieces on PP2 with Backlund and Tkachuk, which would limit his PP minutes. Just like Bennett.

At ES, Duchene doesn't shift Backlund down the lineup or Monahan to the wing, it's as simple as that. So either we'd be paying Monahan 6.375M to be our 3C or we'd have traded a cost-controlled player someday potentially better than Monahan for... a functional 3C.

And if Calgary wanted a top six winger, they would have played Sam Bennett as a top six winger. They are grooming Sam Bennett to be more than that as a center. So he's short of what Calgary would want for Sam Bennett alone. We've got wingers, especially left shot ones (Gaudreau/Tkachuk). We've got a top six winger to play with Gaudreau too... Ferland may not be a sexy name like Duchene but his power forward skillset compliments Gaudreau better than a finesse player like Duchene ever could. And Duchene isn't the two-way player that Frolik is, which we need on our Backlund line.

Further, we simply wouldn't wish to add a piece like Kylington. You're talking about a guy who is entering the first year of his ELC who is already an accomplished AHL player at a tough position. You're talking about a defenseman who, in his 19 year old season was 10th in 5v5 eP/60 and top 15 in QoC in the AHL. We have a vested interest in seeing him through and two years of Matt Duchene don't cut it. If he pans out you're again talking about a cost-controlled asset for the next seven seasons with a top pairing ceiling.

Sam Bennett + Oliver Kylington for Matt Duchene may not seem like the worst value trade in a vacuum, but it makes no sense for Calgary. MacKinnon is the piece Calgary salivates over.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Came pessimistically expecting Bennett+ for Duchene.
Left disappointing it was Bennett+ for Duchene.

Seriously though, it starts with term.
Matt Duchene has two years to UFA.
Sam Bennett has six years to UFA.

Then there's the fact that both are left shots. So Duchene would have the same issues finding a fit on our power play that Bennett has. Is Duchene going to force Gaudreau or Monahan to PP2? I doubt that very much. He would end up being one of the forward pieces on PP2 with Backlund and Tkachuk, which would limit his PP minutes. Just like Bennett.

At ES, Duchene doesn't shift Backlund down the lineup or Monahan to the wing, it's as simple as that. So either we'd be paying Monahan 6.375M to be our 3C or we'd have traded a cost-controlled player someday potentially better than Monahan for... a functional 3C.

And if Calgary wanted a top six winger, they would have played Sam Bennett as a top six winger. They are grooming Sam Bennett to be more than that as a center. So he's short of what Calgary would want for Sam Bennett alone. We've got wingers, especially left shot ones (Gaudreau/Tkachuk). We've got a top six winger to play with Gaudreau too... Ferland may not be a sexy name like Duchene but his power forward skillset compliments Gaudreau better than a finesse player like Duchene ever could. And Duchene isn't the two-way player that Frolik is, which we need on our Backlund line.

Further, we simply wouldn't wish to add a piece like Kylington. You're talking about a guy who is entering the first year of his ELC who is already an accomplished AHL player at a tough position. You're talking about a defenseman who, in his 19 year old season was 10th in 5v5 eP/60 and top 15 in QoC in the AHL. We have a vested interest in seeing him through and two years of Matt Duchene don't cut it. If he pans out you're again talking about a cost-controlled asset for the next seven seasons with a top pairing ceiling.

Sam Bennett + Oliver Kylington for Matt Duchene may not seem like the worst value trade in a vacuum, but it makes no sense for Calgary. MacKinnon is the piece Calgary salivates over.

That's fair. Mackinnon would require major pieces that Calgary wouldn't want to dish out though.
Brodie + Bennett + kylington?

 

[Double Dion]

That's fair. Mackinnon would require major pieces that Calgary wouldn't want to dish out though.
Brodie + Bennett + kylington?

Why? We're trading a top pairing defenseman, a future 2nd line center and a lottery ticket here. That should get you more than a guy who isn't as good as Monahan.

EDIT: Oilers fan I see. Trying to "help" us.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Why? We're trading a top pairing defenseman, a future 2nd line center and a lottery ticket here. That should get you more than a guy who isn't as good as Monahan.

Depends if the sakic values bennett as a 2c.
I personally think mackinnon is way better than monahan and think Bennett won't pan out as a centre.

 

[Double Dion]

Depends if the sakic values bennett as a 2c.
I personally think mackinnon is way better than monahan and think Bennett won't pan out as a centre.

Not sure how you think this. Monahan has out-produced him and is average defensively and turning into a beast in the faceoff dot. Mackinnon is below average defensively and can't win a draw to save his life. I'm not certain of what Bennett is yet. He could be a first liner center or a third line winger. I split the difference in terms of my valuation. Mackinnon only scores goals. He scored 16 of them last year for 6.3 million dollars. Ya makes a ton of sense to move heaven and earth for a one dimensional goal scorer who had 16 goals.

 

[JoemAvs]

No thank you...

Bennett+ Kylington is not enough given what Bennett so far has shown in the NHL...

Would have to be Valimaki instead and given that CGY fans are already balking at Kylington, odds are that is a firm no.


And there is no realistic chance MacKinnon goes to Calgary. None.

0 interest in trading him. Especially for what some people in here think he should be worth...

 

[Double Dion]

No thank you...

Bennett+ Kylington is not enough given what Bennett so far has shown in the NHL...

Would have to be Valimaki instead and given that CGY fans are already balking at Kylington, odds are that is a firm no.


And there is no realistic chance MacKinnon goes to Calgary. None.

0 interest in trading him. Especially for what some people in here think he should be worth...

Bennett hasn't shown anything at the NHL level so far. That's why it's stupid to trade him. It would be like Tampa moving Drouin for a late 1st when he was pouting and refusing to play in the AHL. Holding onto him got them an elite D prospect instead.

I understand Mackinnon has talent. But we're talking 16 goals from a guy who just scores goals at 6.3 million. I'm not moving a top pairing defenseman, a guy who projects somewhere between 1C and 3W and a lottery ticket defenseman for that.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Not sure how you think this. Monahan has out-produced him and is average defensively and turning into a beast in the faceoff dot. Mackinnon is below average defensively and can't win a draw to save his life.

Monahan was 51.5 percent in the dot last year, ranked 42. MacKinnon was 50.6 percent in the dot, ranked 50.

Care to explain how 0.9 percent and 8 spots is the difference between "turning into a beast in the dot" and "can't win a draw to save his life"?

 

[Avs44]

Not sure how you think this. Monahan has out-produced him and is average defensively and turning into a beast in the faceoff dot. Mackinnon is below average defensively and can't win a draw to save his life.I'm not certain of what Bennett is yet. He could be a first liner center or a third line winger. I split the difference in terms of my valuation. Mackinnon only scores goals. He scored 16 of them last year for 6.3 million dollars. Ya makes a ton of sense to move heaven and earth for a one dimensional goal scorer who had 16 goals.

Monahan: 1444 faceoffs, 51.4%. "Faceoff beast"

MacKinnon: 1521 faceoffs, 50.5%. "Can't win a faceoff to save his life."

[MOD]

 

[Double Dion]

Monahan was 51.5 percent in the dot last year, ranked 42. MacKinnon was 50.6 percent in the dot, ranked 50.

Care to explain how 0.9 percent and 8 spots is the difference between "turning into a beast in the dot" and "can't win a draw to save his life"?

Mackinnon was 48.4 percent the year before and Monahan 51. It's more like 10-20 spots depending on what threshold for faceoff numbers you use. Admittedly I didn't do my research properly before posting on the faceoffs, I just remembered him losing lots of draws in the games I watched. Still, there's no justification for thinking Mackinnon is better than Monahan. The very most you could say is he's almost as good if you kind of throw out last season as a dumpster fire for the Avalanche.

 

[Double Dion]

Monahan: 1444 faceoffs, 51.4%. "Faceoff beast"

MacKinnon: 1521 faceoffs, 50.5%. "Can't win a faceoff to save his life."

[MOD].

Admittedly, I didn't do the proper research on the faceoffs. Monahan is still better at that just like he is at everything else. This was in response to a poster who said "Mackinnon is way better than Monahan." Also, I don't intend to change. I think time has proven I was correct about everything I said about the Avalanche. I was right that you'd miss ROR a lot and that Erik Johnson was not a number one defenseman.

 

[JoemAvs]

Bennett hasn't shown anything at the NHL level so far. That's why it's stupid to trade him. It would be like Tampa moving Drouin for a late 1st when he was pouting and refusing to play in the AHL. Holding onto him got them an elite D prospect instead.

I understand Mackinnon has talent. But we're talking 16 goals from a guy who just scores goals at 6.3 million. I'm not moving a top pairing defenseman, a guy who projects somewhere between 1C and 3W and a lottery ticket defenseman for that.

I don't care really. Bennett has disappointed me so far in the NHL...

No way in hell I basically swap Duchene mostly straight up for him right now...

I always thought his ceiling was basically Duchene and so far he hasn't exactly come close or shown that he will reach that level that Duchene showed at the same age.

No thank you.

And I don't really care. Keep scoreboard watching. The Avs last year were a disgrace. Looking at anyones numbers from last year is simply not going to lead to anything in threads like this. We have wathched these guys you know.

I am not particurlarly interested in trading a guy like MacKinnon (who IMO is the most untouchable player on our roster) for what a guy like you considers "fair value"...

No thank you...

I probably wouldn't even trade him for Gaudreau because of how much more I value centers over wingers and because I still believe in MacKinnon and his potential...
He is exactly what we need and shouldn't be for sale at almost any price.

IMO his name shouldn't ever be brought up on here unless Toronto desperately wants to unload Matthews for some crazy reason...

0 interest in trading him for anything less than crazy value.
Brodie does not even fit what the Avs should be doing (rebuilding) and the rest really does not move the needle much for me in a MacKinnon trade.

Hell no. Thank you...

 

[Avs44]

Admittedly, I didn't do the proper research on the faceoffs. Monahan is still better at that just like he is at everything else. This was in response to a poster who said "Mackinnon is way better than Monahan." Also, I don't intend to change. I think time has proven I was correct about everything I said about the Avalanche. I was right that you'd miss ROR a lot and that Erik Johnson was not a number one defenseman.

Admittedly you pulled it out of your hat because it sounded good and catchy at the time, yes, as you do everything else. Including below average defensively, one dimensional, and so on. You do love your buzzwords, you don't know much about the Avs, and this couldn't have been a finer example.

 

[Double Dion]

Admittedly you pulled it out of your hat because it sounded good and catchy at the time, yes, as you do everything else. Including below average defensively, one dimensional, and so on. You do love your buzzwords, you don't know much about the Avs, and this couldn't have been a finer example.

I pulled it out of my hat because it was right. ROR is criminally underrated and you all thought Stastny and Duchene were better than him. Look at the usage your coach gives Mackinnon. He knows he can't play in his own end even if you don't. He still gives up a ton of corsi against despite the soft minutes. Duchene there was some excuse for. He's a talented dude for sure. Never knew what you guys saw in Stastny.

 

[Avs44]

I pulled it out of my hat because it was right. ROR is criminally underrated and you all thought Stastny and Duchene were better than him. Look at the usage your coach gives Mackinnon. He knows he can't play in his own end even if you don't. He still gives up a ton of corsi against despite the soft minutes. Duchene there was some excuse for. He's a talented dude for sure. Never knew what you guys saw in Stastny.

The same hat that tossed out 0.9 faceoff % difference = faceoff beast vs. can't win a draw to save his life.


Avs fans said for years ROR was criminally underrated, so I have no idea what your point is there. Congratulations on agreeing with us? I mean we literally had mini fanbase wars over that one Any mildly smart hockey fan could also have realized that trading an established high end forward for four pieces, all under 21, would guaranteed have "hurt" over the next few years so...I don't think that's much of a prediction to hang your hat on either? And if you want to talk Stastny...you mean the guy you called a "scrub"? The guy you said was no better than David Clarkson? The guy you said would "single handedly destroy the Blues" (direct quote), because he's a "primmadonna"? It's hard to take you seriously with the Avs when you seem so overwhelmed with hate / prone to ridiculous exaggeration like that when it comes to them and their players.



Anyways, to the OP...not a Kylington fan, frankly. I'd want Valimaki coming back in any return deal. I also don't see Bennett valued as highly by the Avs as he seemingly is by the Flames. They are best positioned to just keep the guy right now.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I actually think Duchene to Calgary makes a lot of sense. Bennett + Kylington wont get it done tough.

 

[madmike77]

The Flames don't need another centre. If Duchene played RW and made less money it would make sense.

 

[DFF]

I don't care really. Bennett has disappointed me so far in the NHL...

No way in hell I basically swap Duchene mostly straight up for him right now...

I always thought his ceiling was basically Duchene and so far he hasn't exactly come close or shown that he will reach that level that Duchene showed at the same age.

No thank you.
..

Bennett is a disappointment because people expect him to be a superstar already.

He is 21 and lost a year of development so the verdict is still out on him.


I wouldnt trade Bennett for 2 yrs of Duchene. I could be wrong if Bennett doesnt improve this year but until then Bennett is still a valuable asset.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Bennett is a disappointment because people expect him to be a superstar already.

He is 21 and lost a year of development so the verdict is still out on him.


I wouldnt trade Bennett for 2 yrs of Duchene. I could be wrong if Bennett doesnt improve this year but until then Bennett is still a valuable asset.

There's absolutely still time for Bennett to get better, but his first two years have been pretty bad.

Matt Duchene scored more points in one season as a 19 year old sophomore than Sam Bennett has scored over his two year career which brings him into this season as a 21 year old.

Duchene had a very disappointing January - April 2017, and yes he only has 2 years left on his contract but in spite of that he's still a whole hell of a lot more valuable than Sam Bennett.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Isn't Double Dion the same guy who used to tell us Stastny was a 3C?



Now Mackinnon is a worse player than Monahan who's bad defensively and only scores goals?


Yup sounds accurate...

 

[cgf]

I love HF. Contract term > talent

 

[Kamiccolo]

Isn't Double Dion the same guy who used to tell us Stastny was a 3C?



Now Mackinnon is a worse player than Monahan who's bad defensively and only scores goals?


Yup sounds accurate...

It's not like Stastny went on to prove he is a #1 C like Avs fans claimed either. He's a below average #2 C offensively who gets a pass for being responsible in his own end. He's closer to a #3C than a #1 like Avs fans suggested.