Calder race 2016/2017 #20

[Le Tricolore]

So we can all agree that Arturi Lehkonen will win this, right?

Click to read more...

 

[Narow]

Arturri lehkonen for vezina!

And first

 

[grieves]

"Alex Ovechkin has 550+ career goals in 12 seasons. Patrik Laine will be lucky to sniff half as many goals. 18 or not."

You missed the pro-tip, friend. You are being very non-pro.

 

[Peggy]

Laine was 56 for 56

He's slumped and is now at .90

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

"Alex Ovechkin has 550+ career goals in 12 seasons. Patrik Laine will be lucky to sniff half as many goals. 18 or not."

You missed the pro-tip, friend. You are being very non-pro.

Pro-tip. Laine isn't anywhere near as good as Ovechkin. Let's not try to reach here, thank you. He's a great player but one of the posters was comparing Laine to Ovechkin, which is foolish. Carry on. Matthews vs. Laine!

 

[sparxx87]

Points per game is what separated the men from the boys in today's league

Kind of my point. You just said Laine was inferior despite Laine doing better than Matthews at the time

15/16 - Kessel 59pts in 82 games - Toews 58 in 80
14/15 - Kessel 61pts in 82 games - Toews 66 in 81
13/14 - Kessel 80pts in 82 games - Toews 68 in 76
12/13 - Kessel 52pts in 48 games - Toews 48 in 47
11/12 - Kessel 82pts in 82 games - Toews 57 in 59

Kessel .88 (man) Toews .86 (boy) for at least a 5 year stretch, right?

Points per game, for the win!

 

[Liminality]

Laine was 56 for 56

He's slumped and is now at .90

Or everyone goes through hot and cold streaks in a season and he's where he should be at this time, just like Matthews.

Happened to Matthews, happened to Laine and happens to most rookies. Consistency is one of the hardest things to adjust to in your first year and I think both have done a pretty good job still.

 

[Narow]

Pro-tip. Laine isn't anywhere near as good as Ovechkin. Let's not try to reach here, thank you. He's a great player but one of the posters was comparing Laine to Ovechkin, which is foolish.

Guys look at his name....okay... now look at his number of post....this guy aint for real i have been explaining 3 pages that i was not comparing them as player it was only in even strength

Simple NUMBERS from their rookie seasons comparison and yet he continues saying im comparing them i have had enough

Here are the numbers if anyone is interested.

EVEN STRENGTH

Goals
Ovi 28
Laine 27

Points
Ovi 51
Laine 50

Games played
Ovi 81
Laine 71

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

PPG is a better way to tell us who's really producing more in a given game than simply looking at point totals, but why stop at PPG? Primary points production is an even better measure of repeatability of production. Don't think we should hold it against Matthews for having far fewer secondary assists, and even strength strength assists in general, while lugging around a winger like Hyman.

Anyways I admire the fans' enthusiasm for this comparison, although I have to say I'm more interested in who takes the #3 nomination for this award. Up in the air between 4 different guys IMO

 

[grieves]

Pro-tip. Laine isn't anywhere near as good as Ovechkin. Let's not try to reach here, thank you. He's a great player but one of the posters was comparing Laine to Ovechkin, which is foolish. Carry on. Matthews vs. Laine!

I'm sorry man. Laine will most likely turn out better. I think he is already better this season as an 18yo or am I mistaken?

Although I have a feeling Laine is better than Ovechkin because of watching Ovechkin.

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

I'm sorry man. Laine will most likely turn out better. I think he is already better this season as an 18yo or am I mistaken?

Although I have a feeling Laine is better than Ovechkin because of watching Ovechkin.

I hope you like being disappointed. I don't think any sane fan would tell you that Laine is going to be better than Ovechkin. Regardless of Laine being 18. I wouldn't be surprised if this season ends up being the career highlight for the young Fin.

 

[grieves]

Guys look at his name....okay... now look at his number of post....this guy aint for real i have been explaining 3 pages that i was not comparing them as player it was only in even strength

Simple NUMBERS from their rookie seasons comparison and yet he continues saying im comparing them i have had enough

Here are the numbers if anyone is interested.

EVEN STRENGTH

Goals
Ovi 28
Laine 27

Points
Ovi 51
Laine 50

Games played
Ovi 81
Laine 71

And this is three or four years apart in age and development? Why is this comparison even relevant?

 

[rojac]

PPG is a better way to tell us who's really producing more in a given game than simply looking at point totals, but why stop at PPG? Primary points production is an even better measure of repeatability of production. Don't think we should hold it against Matthews for having far fewer secondary assists, and even strength strength assists in general, while lugging around a winger like Hyman.

Anyways I admire the fans' enthusiasm for this comparison, although I have to say I'm more interested in who takes the #3 nomination for this award. Up in the air between 4 different guys IMO

The third "nomination" is simply the guy who comes in third in the voting. It's not a situation where they choose nominees and then there is a round of voting for one of those nominees. The writers simply vote; the top three vote-getters are announced as finalists; and then the top vote-getter is announced as the winner at the awards show.

 

[grieves]

I hope you like being disappointed. I don't think any sane fan would tell you that Laine is going to be better than Ovechkin. Regardless of Laine being 18. I wouldn't be surprised if this season ends up being the career highlight for the young Fin.

Dude I've been fighting battles with Mario as the topic. Ovechkin is like punching babies, as their comparable 18yo numbers show.

Anything can of course happen, but the only real comparison you can make between players is when they were as close to the same situation as possible. In this case it is age. It would be great if it would be team too but that is not possible so we have to wing it at times.

But look at 18yo Ovechkin, then look at Laine, then look at 18yo Ovechkin. Then come tell me with a straight face Laine is not even close.

 

[Narow]

PPG is a better way to tell us who's really producing more in a given game than simply looking at point totals, but why stop at PPG? Primary points production is an even better measure of repeatability of production. Don't think we should hold it against Matthews for having far fewer secondary assists, and even strength strength assists in general, while lugging around a winger like Hyman.

Anyways I admire the fans' enthusiasm for this comparison, I'm more interested in who takes the #3 nomination for this award. Up in the air between 4 different guys IMO

Hyman is probably a reason why most of his assists are primary. But he could also use defensemen

But it is weird he is a center with quite few secondary..i think only 8 out of 28 or something?

Laine having fewer does make sense...he has 36 goals im 71 games...he is the triggerman and he can put it in with accuracy from far away..not many chances for rebounds for someone to scoop up.

He does have a few great primary assists aswell were a passing play has made more sense than a shot.

But if he can he will take the shot.

Afterall he has 28 assists too and like 15 or something are secondary assists?

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

Dude I've been fighting battles with Mario as the topic. Ovechkin is like punching babies, as their comparable 18yo numbers show.

Anything can of course happen, but the only real comparison you can make between players is when they were as close to the same situation as possible. In this case it is age. It would be great if it would be team too but that is not possible so we have to wing it at times.

But look at rookie Ovechkin, then look at Laine, then look at rookie Ovechkin. Then come tell me with a straight face Laine is not even close.

What I'm saying is that there is not any comparison to be had. Laine is so underwhelming a player. All he's good for is scoring goals. He's got one hell of a shot but the rest of his game is pedestrian. It's not noteworthy of comparison to Ovechkin. Ovechkin has highlights after highlights of pure domination. Laine has highlights of flipping a puck over a stick.

Also to note, for all the great goal scoring he's touted for. He's not even the best goal scorer of this rookie class. Auston Matthews takes that honor.

 

[Narow]

I hope you like being disappointed. I don't think any sane fan would tell you that Laine is going to be better than Ovechkin. Regardless of Laine being 18. I wouldn't be surprised if this season ends up being the career highlight for the young Fin.

Hha this is likely the real ovi taking the **** xD

 

[kelsier]

The nine missed games broke the camel's back while Matthews already held the home-ground advantage. Then again, when looking back, I cannot but be absolutely thrilled. After all, Laine's not losing anything here. Just the fact that he's 5th in goals per game with two games remaining, while playing his first year in the NHL at the age of 18 flies far beyond my wildest expectations. That's what really matters. Calder will not dictate anyone's destiny and whether that is Matthews or Werenski who claims it, it's all the same in the end. There were many deserving candidates. McDavid nor Crosby did not win the trophy either and it's had zero impact career wise. Laine wasn't granted any favours, yet he managed to keep the race alive and interesting for such a long time despite the setbacks and that's quite remarkable considering the worthy competition. It's certainly going to be interesting to see whether Matthews can keep up with a healthy Laine in the seasons that follow.

 

[Narow]

And this is three or four years apart in age and development? Why is this comparison even relevant?

It highlights how crazy Laines season has been?

 

[Peggy]

15/16 - Kessel 59pts in 82 games - Toews 58 in 80
14/15 - Kessel 61pts in 82 games - Toews 66 in 81
13/14 - Kessel 80pts in 82 games - Toews 68 in 76
12/13 - Kessel 52pts in 48 games - Toews 48 in 47
11/12 - Kessel 82pts in 82 games - Toews 57 in 59

Kessel .88 (man) Toews .86 (boy) for at least a 5 year stretch, right?

Points per game, for the win!

What do those stats have to do with rookie of the year? Nothing

Or everyone goes through hot and cold streaks in a season and he's where he should be at this time, just like Matthews.

Happened to Matthews, happened to Laine and happens to most rookies. Consistency is one of the hardest things to adjust to in your first year and I think both have done a pretty good job still.

Yupp I know
It's still at .90 tho
Which is pretty good for an 18 year old

 

[sparxx87]

It highlights how crazy Laines season has been?

....and yet you wonder why people compare numbers that you post side by side?

Hmmm. Seems like you're being suggestive but then scoff at the notion you'd ever do such a thing. You've done it repeatedly.

If you really want to learn more about hockey and it's players, watch hockey. Combing through stats is just filling your mind with subjective information.

 

[Narow]

What I'm saying is that there is not any comparison to be had. Laine is so underwhelming a player. All he's good for is scoring goals. He's got one hell of a shot but the rest of his game is pedestrian. It's not noteworthy of comparison to Ovechkin. Ovechkin has highlights after highlights of pure domination. Laine has highlights of flipping a puck over a stick.

Also to note, for all the great goal scoring he's touted for. He's not even the best goal scorer of this rookie class. Auston Matthews takes that honor.

Yep matthews is a crazy good goalscoring talent, that doesnt take away anything from Laine.

Dont see why you seen to have some need to bash laine ...

Outside scoring he hits alot (sounds familier?) Playmakes, giced great passes and breakoutpasses and can be good in his own end, understandably still shaky but when he is on he is good in all 3 zones.

Go ahead bash away it just confirms he is turning heads

If someone named "brovechkin" needs to come here to save the guy of their dreams it just means Laine is well on his way to the top see ya later

 

[sparxx87]

And do those stats have to do with rookie of the year? Nothing



Yupp I know is still at .90 tho
Which is pretty good for an 18 year old

So points per game only separates men from boys in their rookie year but becomes irrelevant past then?

Hmmm. That doesn't make much sense. It's either good or it isn't.

How many more times are you going to move the goalposts on this one?

 

[Narow]

....and yet you wonder why people compare numbers that you post side by side?

Hmmm. Seems like you're being suggestive but then scoff at the notion you'd ever do such a thing. You've done it repeatedly.

If you really want to learn more about hockey and it's players, watch hockey. Combing through stats is just filling your mind with subjective information.

Numbers are the only things bot subjective here...

Its okay i wont post more numbers seems people here cant just take them for what they are.

I post number say they are comparable meaning they are close to eachother and thats it. Not even hinting at player qualities at all.

I thought it was cool damn excuse me how wrong of me bad bad bad never compare numbers at hockey...got it

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Aside from the fact that Matthews played with worse line mates than Laine, are going to forget the fact that one is a centre and another is a winger? Playing centre and producing numbers is tougher than playing wing.

Anyone who has played hockey can attest to that.