C Rasmus Kupari - Karpat, Liiga (2018, 20th, LAK)

[kelsier]

Way too early to tell. It's a bit different to play regular season games than it is against somewhat unknown foreign teams that have a different approach to the game. And let's face it, the French and German opponents didn't exactly fly on their skates.

That doesn't look at all like the Kupari we saw last season. I watched a lot of his games and despite the speed he got separated from the puck wayyy too easy, hence not getting much advantage over being amongst the fastest players out there. But yeah, the competition will get a lot tougher.

First of all what he has done so far now is only pre-season games and against weak opponents in the not so high level CHL stage. On that level Niklas Nordgren had already last season a hattrick, but we didn't see him do much of anything in Liiga.

But yes, I have said that part of Kupari’s weak production in Liiga last season for sure was his mediocre hockey IQ. If someone is lacking with their hockey IQ, but they have some other great abilities still, they are usually players whom need very specific players in their line to do well with their productivity. Luckily Kupari has excellent skating and great hands. So if he can play the whole Liiga season with players like Heponiemi and Pyörälä, there should be no way how he could be as unproductive as last season.

Heponiemi is really excellent for Liiga level with his speed, hands, passing and IQ. The only question with him is really with his lack of strength. But in the bigger rink, I’m quite confident that Heponiemi’s great abilities should truly help him and his teammates shine. Kupari and Pyörälä seem also like quite well suiting linemates for Heponiemi and his abilities.

My point with Kupari’s mediocre hockey IQ and not so good production was still the fact that he shouldn't have been picked in the draft in the earlier rounds. I said exactly clearly that I see him at best as a late first rounder. And that’s how he was picked, so so far my estimation on him has been pretty accurate. And of he is expected to ever have an NHL career, he will need to start producing at least close to or preferably over PPG . He should really be able to do it with the linemates that he seems to get for the season. Of course his ice time will be a big factor also with how his productivity will be.

Still, as I said, I’m not some on him having more than mediocre hockey IQ, and thus I’m at least not yet changing my prediction of him being most likely a 3rd or 4th line winger at the NHL level.

That's a lot asked. I couldn't find the all time U20 or more specifically 18 year old stats from the FEL, but the only player I know who has been able to break the ppg barrier at the same age is Aho, and that requires extreme talent. Even last season there was only one player who was able to score over point per game, so it's not like in the NHL where there are usually several players who score 82+ points each year. If Kupari gets even close to this kind of production then he'll absolutely need to pull all the pieces together, including the hockey IQ (which pretty much either is there or it isn't).

Between Hepo and Kupari for me it's actually the other way around. I didn't watch Heponiemi at all prior to the WJC because I didn't have time/resources to follow up on WHL, but based on what he had accomplished overseas I had pretty high expectations coming into the WJC, where he unfortunately failed utterly with the rest of the team. I didn't see blazing speed and his hockey IQ wasn't able to save him from being outplayed by his peers. Although as you said, he certainly fills in all the check marks for boom or bust project. Hepo's also young so guess there's going to be a learning curve for him as well to adjust playing in a pro league so I doubt he's going to be the rainmaker instantly if at all.

I'm glad about the two finding the same frequency and while the early signs are quite promising, we should keep the expectations at bay or at least reasonable. If either of them gets awarded with the Ketola trophy by the end of the year, that would mean a major success while possibly setting up new benchmark.

 

[Ippenator]

That doesn't look at all like the Kupari we saw last season. I watched a lot of his games and despite the speed he got separated from the puck wayyy too easy, hence not getting much advantage over being amongst the fastest players out there. But yeah, the competition will get a lot tougher.



That's a lot asked. I couldn't find the all time U20 or more specifically 18 year old stats from the FEL, but the only player I know who has been able to break the ppg barrier at the same age is Aho, and that requires extreme talent. Even last season there was only one player who was able to score over point per game, so it's not like in the NHL where there are usually several players who score 82+ points each year. If Kupari gets even close to this kind of production then he'll absolutely need to pull all the pieces together, including the hockey IQ (which pretty much either is there or it isn't).

Between Hepo and Kupari for me it's actually the other way around. I didn't watch Heponiemi at all prior to the WJC because I didn't have time/resources to follow up on WHL, but based on what he had accomplished overseas I had pretty high expectations coming into the WJC, where he unfortunately failed utterly with the rest of the team. I didn't see blazing speed and his hockey IQ wasn't able to save him from being outplayed by his peers. Although as you said, he certainly fills in all the check marks for boom or bust project. Hepo's also young so guess there's going to be a learning curve for him as well to adjust playing in a pro league so I doubt he's going to be the rainmaker instantly if at all.

I'm glad about the two finding the same frequency and while the early signs are quite promising, we should keep the expectations at bay or at least reasonable. If either of them gets awarded with the Ketola trophy by the end of the year, that would mean a major success while possibly setting up new benchmark.

What I meant was really that if Kupari has linemates like Heponiemi and Pyörälä, he should definitely be able to get at least close to a PPG player or preferably even more. I can tell you that players of his age have practically never played with as good linemates in Liiga, so the productivity expectations come from that. If he will not be able to produce even then close to a PPG, then I will definitely question his future as a real NHL potential player.

What other 18 year old’s have done will be quite meaningless in that situation. Heponiemi is seriously THAT good for Liiga level. But his lack of strength is still a big question for his NHL career, as NHL is still as much about having enough of strength as it is about having good speed. The certain strength requirements haven’t really completely vanished. I don’t mean that a player of Heponiemi’s size should ever be anykind of a bulldozer. But he can’t stay as a weakling that he is at that level either. But’m pretty sure that he does have enough of strength to do very well in Liiga already.

How Heponiemi played in the WJC doesn’t seriously tell much about him at all. Finland was a complete mess in general. Coach Ahokas was completely lost with his playstyle and his lines and player selections. Heponiemi played with wrong linemates and wrong style for him. His weaknesses mean that he needs to have a real puckhound or preferably even two of them playing with him in the same line. Kupari and Pyörälä are both exactly this at the Liiga level, so the line combination seems to me really like ideal.

 

[kelsier]

What I meant was really that if Kupari has linemates like Heponiemi and Pyörälä, he should definitely be able to get at least close to a PPG player or preferably even more. I can tell you that players of his age have practically never played with as good linemates in Liiga, so the productivity expectations come from that. If he will not be able to produce even then close to a PPG, then I will definitely question his future as a real NHL potential player.

What other 18 year old’s have done will be quite meaningless in that situation. Heponiemi is seriously THAT good for Liiga level. But his lack of strength is still a big question for his NHL career, as NHL is still as much about having enough of strength as it is about having good speed. The certain strength requirements haven’t really completely vanished. I don’t mean that a player of Heponiemi’s size should ever be anykind of a bulldozer. But he can’t stay as a weakling that he is at that level either. But’m pretty sure that he does have enough of strength to do very well in Liiga already.

How Heponiemi played in the WJC doesn’t seriously tell much about him at all. Finland was a complete mess in general. Coach Ahokas was completely lost with his playstyle and his lines and player selections. Heponiemi played with wrong linemates and wrong style for him. His weaknesses mean that he needs to have a real puckhound or preferably even two of them playing with him in the same line. Kupari and Pyörälä are both exactly this at the Liiga level, so the line combination seems to me really like ideal.

I actually knew what you meant and in fact Pyörälä was a line mate for Aho as well as he is for Kupari today. You are applying huge, huge expectations over Heponiemi who hasn't got really even a one pro level regular season game under the belt as of this moment. It's not like Ilya Kovalchuk took a shot at the FEL and wanted to spend one of his last career years here but instead they have another rookie. Aho barely made it to PPG so expecting Kupari to either make it or get close to it, before actually really knowing the true impact of Heponiemi is just too much too soon, no matter how you slice it. You could be right and you could be wrong, it's like Mara said earlier, it's way too early to tell. Of course I'm rooting for your hopes, but like I said, the first impression of Hepo didn't indicate a meteoric landing onto FEL the next season, but I'll give him a benefit of a doubt and see how it goes. I'll be happy if they just have a good season without too much of expectations, and of course I'm delighted and hopeful about the frequency they've seemed to have found so soon already.

 

[Ippenator]

I actually knew what you meant and in fact Pyörälä was a line mate for Aho as well as he is for Kupari today. You are applying huge, huge expectations over Heponiemi who hasn't got really even a one pro level regular season game under the belt as of this moment. It's not like Ilya Kovalchuk took a shot at the FEL and wanted to spend one of his last career years here but instead they have another rookie. Aho barely made it to PPG so expecting Kupari to either make it or get close to it, before actually really knowing the true impact of Heponiemi is just too much too soon, no matter how you slice it. You could be right and you could be wrong, it's like Mara said earlier, it's way too early to tell. Of course I'm rooting for your hopes, but like I said, the first impression of Hepo didn't indicate a meteoric landing onto FEL the next season, but I'll give him a benefit of a doubt and see how it goes. I'll be happy if they just have a good season without too much of expectations, and of course I'm delighted and hopeful about the frequency they've seemed to have found so soon already.

Of course I might be even wrong about Heponiemi. But I do see him very much like a player whom can have exactly a huge impact in a league like Liiga. And as I mentioned, he also needs specific type of linemates, as he has especially weaknesses with his physicality and getting the puck through battles. But now he is going to have two puck hounds that he exactly needs. I'm still quite confident that Heponiemi will have a massive Liiga-season for a 19 year old and that if he, Kupari and Pyörälä get to play a lot together, they should all have great and productive seasons. Heponiemi is really that good for Liiga. Aho is for sure a better player as a whole, but with the right kind of linemates I truly believe that Kupari can get at least close with his 18 year old production. But it's a completely different kind of story if he will ever be able to anything close to what Aho has done in the NHL. I'm very confident that he will be far from that.

 

[Hokinaittii]

First of all what he has done so far now is only pre-season games and against weak opponents in the not so high level CHL stage. On that level Niklas Nordgren had already last season a hattrick, but we didn't see him do much of anything in Liiga.

But yes, I have said that part of Kupari’s weak production in Liiga last season for sure was his mediocre hockey IQ. If someone is lacking with their hockey IQ, but they have some other great abilities still, they are usually players whom need very specific players in their line to do well with their productivity. Luckily Kupari has excellent skating and great hands. So if he can play the whole Liiga season with players like Heponiemi and Pyörälä, there should be no way how he could be as unproductive as last season.

Heponiemi is really excellent for Liiga level with his speed, hands, passing and IQ. The only question with him is really with his lack of strength. But in the bigger rink, I’m quite confident that Heponiemi’s great abilities should truly help him and his teammates shine. Kupari and Pyörälä seem also like quite well suiting linemates for Heponiemi and his abilities.

My point with Kupari’s mediocre hockey IQ and not so good production was still the fact that he shouldn't have been picked in the draft in the earlier rounds. I said exactly clearly that I see him at best as a late first rounder. And that’s how he was picked, so so far my estimation on him has been pretty accurate. And if he is expected to ever have an NHL career, he will need to start producing at least close to or preferably over PPG in Liiga. He should really be able to do it with the linemates that he seems to get for the season. Of course his ice time will be a big factor also with how his productivity will be.

Still, as I said, I’m not sold on him having more than mediocre hockey IQ, and thus I’m at least not yet changing my prediction of him being most likely a 3rd or 4th line winger at the NHL level.

Even though it's preseason, it's not like the CHL teams are not icing their best lineup nor he will suddenly find a lot harder opponents in Liiga than SHL team Luleå which he had 3 points game. Not to mention Nordgren's hat trick was against Polish team which is still couple of tiers below any team Kupari has played so far (barring maybe the French team). But I get what you are saying that it's still preseason but at the same time it's encouraging to see how his game has looked better and that has also affected his point totals.

Also, my post wasn't excactly a jab to you or anything since I feel like there have been people with way worse expectations for the player than yours.

 

[Eidyia]

What I meant was really that if Kupari has linemates like Heponiemi and Pyörälä, he should definitely be able to get at least close to a PPG player or preferably even more. I can tell you that players of his age have practically never played with as good linemates in Liiga, so the productivity expectations come from that. If he will not be able to produce even then close to a PPG, then I will definitely question his future as a real NHL potential player.

You heavily overestimate the current levels of 37-year-old Pyörälä and a 18-year-old Heponiemi who's about to play his first pro-season with adults.

I'd be perfectly happy with 0,5 p/g production from him, I'm sure Kings fans would agree. 18-year-old Aho with his 1p/g in a season when our clueless coach played him 25min almost every game shouldn't be a benchmark for anyone.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

You heavily overestimate the current levels of 37-year-old Pyörälä and a 18-year-old Heponiemi who's about to play his first pro-season with adults.

I'd be perfectly happy with 0,5 p/g production from him, I'm sure Kings fans would agree. 18-year-old Aho with his 1p/g in a season when our clueless coach played him 25min almost every game shouldn't be a benchmark for anyone.

For me: Heponiemi > Kupari | i think you are hugely underestimating Pyörälä&Heponiemi
and for example, clearly not followed much of Hepo past 2 seasons.

Kupari has looked (played) better so far in the CHL, but Kupari has a huge advantage over Hepo
its Kupari's 3rd season in the organization, where as Hepo just arrived,
it makes a huge difference at the moment.

When the season progresses more, be sure that Hepo passes Kupari.
Nevertheless, i think both are 1 ppg+ this season and'll be 1 and 2
in the Liiga scoring.

Then again we both have our own opinions, lets see how it all works out.


Oh...Heponiemi is not 18, he is 19 going for 20, he turns 20 next year January
is eligible for the WJC thou (1999).

 

[redcard]

I honestly don't know what the CHL is or how it compares to Liiga. Is it just a cross league exhibition?

Ultimately, I know it's a couple games so I never read too much into it anyway, but I don't know to feel about Kupari's performance during the CHL games.

The top teams from each of Europe's leagues participate in a tournament the following season (if you follow soccer its the same concept as the Champions League). Karpat won Liiga last year so they qualify, and they have a team from the French league, German League, and Czech League with them. So they're probably the favorites in their group and its not surprising that they've run up the score a little bit on the French and German teams. When it gets to the knockout rounds and they have to play do or die games against other top Liiga or SEL teams, people might put a little more stock in Kupari's performance.

But multi-point performance against weaker teams is still infinitely better than no-point performances against weaker teams.

 

[King'sPawn]

The top teams from each of Europe's leagues participate in a tournament the following season (if you follow soccer its the same concept as the Champions League). Karpat won Liiga last year so they qualify, and they have a team from the French league, German League, and Czech League with them. So they're probably the favorites in their group and its not surprising that they've run up the score a little bit on the French and German teams. When it gets to the knockout rounds and they have to play do or die games against other top Liiga or SEL teams, people might put a little more stock in Kupari's performance.

But multi-point performance against weaker teams is still infinitely better than no-point performances against weaker teams.

Thank you so much, redcard. I only follow hockey, so the whole concept of having these other tournaments is completely foreign to me.

 

[Loffer]

Thank you so much, redcard. I only follow hockey, so the whole concept of having these other tournaments is completely foreign to me.

Now That makes sense. The whole concept of CHL being in this particular case analogous to some ancient Hebrew phrase carved on an age-old lime stone rock lying in the bottom of Dead Sea... Needs scholarly competence or cultural memebership/acclimatization to get anything out of such a weird specimen of distant civilization if the rock one day is fished out of its salty grave and dropped on the floor of a rowing boat or into a discussion...

 

[Visul]

Kupari went scoreless in the first two games. How did he play in those games?

 

[ookhaab]

Has missed last 2 games, one for match penalty due to hit to the head and for some reason was scratched for the game against Ilves.

He is back today against Lukko, centering Pyörälä and Heponiemi on the 2nd line.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Has missed last 2 games, one for match penalty due to hit to the head and for some reason was scratched for the game against Ilves.

He is back today against Lukko, centering Pyörälä and Heponiemi on the 2nd line.

Apparently they wanted to "Rest" him.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

3 point game (2+1) for Kupari, game has not ended yet.

 

[JJTT]

Seems like he is finally putting his game together after a slow start. 6 points in 6 Liiga games this month, had point in the both CHL games this week too.

His puck handling, passing and defensive game keep improving all the time. Good faceoff man for his age too nearly 52% this season.

Not sure if if he will ever be a top line player in the NHL but he has so much potential in every area of the game, size, shot, skating, puck handling

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Seems like he is finally putting his game together after a slow start. 6 points in 6 Liiga games this month, had point in the both CHL games this week too.

His puck handling, passing and defensive game keep improving all the time. Good faceoff man for his age too nearly 52% this season.

Not sure if if he will ever be a top line player in the NHL but he has so much potential in every area of the game, size, shot, skating, puck handling

He seems to me like a 3rd line player in the NHL.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

He seem to me like a 3rd line player in the NHL.

Lot of Craig Smith in his game and not just with the handedness imo. Both try to control the ice with their moves and get caught holding the puck too much but occasionally break through with nifty goals.

 

[blindpass]

He seems to me like a 3rd line player in the NHL.

Could be. I think he's only a slightly more promising prospect than Vesalainen.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Looking forward to a strong wjc, to see his transition from a 3rd liner to an overrated prospect.

 

[ijuka]

Could be. I think he's only a slightly more promising prospect than Vesalainen.

I think that he's a significantly less promising prospect than Vesalainen.

 

[Ippenator]

I think that he's a significantly less promising prospect than Vesalainen.

I absolutely agree.

 

[ookhaab]

I absolutely agree.

Same.

 

[FinPanda]

Just scored another goal.

He has had quite good season after slow start.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

He looks like a new player compared to last season. He’s streamlined his game a lot, choosing the simpler, more effective play most of the time instead of trying to dangle himself through a brickwall. He’s also become a lot more reliable making those small plays around the boards that help his team keep possession. Good progression. Also scored with a nice wrister.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I still think Kupari lacks IQ to become a proper top line guy. Middle six is more like it. I think he should work on his shot and make it as accurate as possible. A hard, accurate shot combined with his skating ability would make him a good NHLer.