C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part III

[Samsquanch]

Except when he has questionably and inexplicably been treated differently.

I'm on my phone, but long story short, there was one draft publication who talked about all the qualities and pros of the various prospects. Players ranked much lower than the No. 2/3 ranked Byfield.

When Lafreniére had an underwhelming 2019 WJC, the criticisms against him were "unfair" and scoring a goal was a huge redeeming moment. With Byfield this year, despite being the same age as Laf last year, all those same criticisms are more met with "you shouldn't judge based on one tournament" at best.

I know - DY-1 vs DY, but he is getting treated and evaluated less fairly than others. And I will be happy at how far things have come, but we can still recognize how far we have to go.

This is basically my take on it as well.

Byfield basically was trending perfectly and as good as you can be for a top prospect at his age, until the WJC that is... and it seemed like when a drop of his blood hit the water, there was already a pack of sharks waiting there to start the feeding frenzy...seemed especially harsh to me when the facts were all being considered....

I'm just so curious what those same people were saying about Nathan McKinnon in his draft year after having just as lackluster a tournament as a 17yr old. I think that would be incredibly telling for us all (and we ignore them when they say that McKinnon was in another tier of prospect than Byfield - the evidence speaks otherwise).

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

This is basically my take on it as well.

Byfield basically was trending perfectly and as good as you can be for a top prospect at his age, until the WJC that is... and it seemed like when a drop of his blood hit the water, there was already a pack of sharks waiting there to start the feeding frenzy...seemed especially harsh to me when the facts were all being considered....

I'm just so curious what those same people were saying about Nathan McKinnon in his draft year after having just as lackluster a tournament as a 17yr old. I think that would be incredibly telling for us all (and we ignore them when they say that McKinnon was in another tier of prospect than Byfield - the evidence speaks otherwise).

Mackinnon did get a good amount of criticism for his WJC performance. Around that time many people were putting Jones at #1 instead. But Mackinnon started that year with a dominant performance at the Hlinka, and finished it by destroying the playoffs and having one of the best Mem Cup performances ever. That did a lot to erase the WJC from people's minds. Aside from his great regular season in the OHL, Byfield doesn't really have a lot to hang his hat on, in terms of performances. Which wouldn't matter if he was slated to go from, say, 5 to 10, but Byfield is practically a lock to be a lottery pick. So the expectations are higher, and the criticisms are harsher.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Mackinnon did get a good amount of criticism for his WJC performance. Around that time many people were putting Jones at #1 instead. But Mackinnon started that year with a dominant performance at the Hlinka, and finished it by destroying the playoffs and having one of the best Mem Cup performances ever. That did a lot to erase the WJC from people's minds. Aside from his great regular season in the OHL, Byfield doesn't really have a lot to hang his hat on, in terms of performances. Which wouldn't matter if he was slated to go from, say, 5 to 10, but Byfield is practically a lock to be a lottery pick. So the expectations are higher, and the criticisms are harsher.

And to be fair it's not his fault the season got wiped short. This is only his second OHL season, and as a 16 year old, he led Sudbury going PPG in 8 playoff games, which is pretty impressive given half of those were against a powerhouse 67s team. Would have been really eager to see how he performed this year. Like you say not much to go by but I also think people are really laying into the criticisms without giving appropriate accolades/credits.

 

[57special]

Am I the only one who thinks that Byfield hasn't been targeted at all because of his race by any legit ranker/draft expert, and has merely faced the criticism that all elite prospects face? If anything, he is facing the big man's syndrome, of being accused of being lazy because he has a long stride, vs the frenetic shorter strides of a small man.

I thought he looked mediocre overall at the WJC's but he was very young, and one a stacked team. Most reasonable people understand that. Even then, he showed flashes of what he might be capable of.

I seem to recall that Jones was considered to be a possibility at #1oa back in his draft year because of the CO connection with his father. As it turned out, he probably should have gone 3rd oa...clearly better than Drouin, but Barkov is terrific.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

19-20 season :

VS Niagara : 3+5
VS Erie : 2+0 | 1 game
VS Missisauga : 5+1
VS North Battalion : 2+7
VS Kitchener : 1+3
VS Peterborough : 2+3
VS SOO : 3+3
VS Oshawa : 3+2
VS Owen Sound : 0+1 | 1 game
VS Guelph : 1+1 | 1 game
VS Flint : 1+4
VS Saginaw : 0+2 | 1 game
VS Windsor : 0+2 | 1 game
VS Hamilton : 2+3
VS Ottawa : 0+1 | 1 game
VS Kingston : 0+2
VS Barrie : 3+5
VS London 0+0 | 1 game
VS Sarnia 1+3

III = none play-offs team | 10+25=35
III = play-offs team | 22+25=47

 

[Osprey]

Am I the only one who thinks that Byfield hasn't been targeted at all because of his race by any legit ranker/draft expert, and has merely faced the criticism that all elite prospects face?

I basically argued that on the last page.

I seem to recall that Jones was considered to be a possibility at #1oa back in his draft year because of the CO connection with his father. As it turned out, he probably should have gone 3rd oa...clearly better than Drouin, but Barkov is terrific.

It wasn't just the CO connection. Central Scouting had Jones at #1 on their final draft rankings. I don't remember anyone claiming that Jones was a victim of racist scouting bias, which suggests that there are other reasons why Byfield is being critiqued.

 

[TheShowBizPizzaBear]

Byfield seems to be getting nitpicked for similar reasons to Draisaitl in 2014. Drai also got criticized for looking lethargic, I've heard it called "big man syndrome" and at the end of the day, both players are huge playmaking centers who racked up a ton of points in the CHL on otherwise weak teams. Draisaitl also got criticized for being slow footed, where as Byfield seems to be getting criticized for not using his body enough. It seems that both of these things could be related more so to the two players' playing styles than to their ability to utilize those assets if they played the game differently.

 

[bert]

Byfield seems to be getting nitpicked for similar reasons to Draisaitl in 2014. Drai also got criticized for looking lethargic, I've heard it called "big man syndrome" and at the end of the day, both players are huge playmaking centers who racked up a ton of points in the CHL on otherwise weak teams. Draisaitl also got criticized for being slow footed, where as Byfield seems to be getting criticized for not using his body enough. It seems that both of these things could be related more so to the two players' playing styles than to their ability to utilize those assets if they played the game differently.

One person critisizes him for not using his body too much but then the next comes with the most ridiculous argument that he is only good because he is bigger. Which is by far the dumbest argument I have heard yet, considering big players take longer to develop.

 

[Langdon Alger]

The Kings will not draft Strudel! Quinton Byfield numero cinquantacinque baby for the Los Angeles Kings

Are you Rob Blake?

 

[Rob Brown]

Am I the only one who thinks that Byfield hasn't been targeted at all because of his race by any legit ranker/draft expert, and has merely faced the criticism that all elite prospects face? If anything, he is facing the big man's syndrome, of being accused of being lazy because he has a long stride, vs the frenetic shorter strides of a small man.

I thought he looked mediocre overall at the WJC's but he was very young, and one a stacked team. Most reasonable people understand that. Even then, he showed flashes of what he might be capable of.

I seem to recall that Jones was considered to be a possibility at #1oa back in his draft year because of the CO connection with his father. As it turned out, he probably should have gone 3rd oa...clearly better than Drouin, but Barkov is terrific.

I recall everyone being pretty shocked he dropped to 4. He was expected to go in the 2 or 3 spot, IIRC. Tampa with Jones right now would be pretty ridic.

 

[57special]

That Drouin pick...he was highly regarded, but add him to the list of high draft picks who have underwhelmed.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Are you Rob Blake?

If I had have been I would have signed Dominik Kubalik last season...and since he's a RFA I would Offer sheet the living Crap outta his next deal...4 years at 14 M first year,13,2nd year,11,3rd year and 10,4th year! That's 48 Million for 4 years and then put Kubalik with Kopi-Star and Kempe!!! All the while saying good riddance to Brown,Iafallo and host of other Kings like Puck in the Pacific Lewis!

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Are you Rob Blake?

La will draft and sign Quinton Byfield 2nd overall and then hopefully deal the likes of Vilardi cause there no way in hell Gabriel is better than Quinton!!!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Honestly I still think Byfield(and Stutzle)'s biggest drawback is simply that Lafreniere is in this draft. Having a near-finished product as a near consensus #1 makes people focus on how flawed #2-#3 are instead of how awesome #1 and #2 are. It should be a Hall-Seguin situation with those two, or at least a Hischier-Patrick one. But instead people are talking about all the ways either guy could fail. If Laf wasn't in this draft, what would people be saying?

 

[Langdon Alger]

La will draft and sign Quinton Byfield 2nd overall and then hopefully deal the likes of Vilardi cause there no way in hell Gabriel is better than Quinton!!!

Why not keep both guys?

 

[Lt Dan]

Are you Rob Blake?

Andys is Rob Blake's personal water slide tester

 

[BigKing]

Am I the only one who thinks that Byfield hasn't been targeted at all because of his race by any legit ranker/draft expert, and has merely faced the criticism that all elite prospects face? If anything, he is facing the big man's syndrome, of being accused of being lazy because he has a long stride, vs the frenetic shorter strides of a small man.

I thought he looked mediocre overall at the WJC's but he was very young, and one a stacked team. Most reasonable people understand that. Even then, he showed flashes of what he might be capable of.

I seem to recall that Jones was considered to be a possibility at #1oa back in his draft year because of the CO connection with his father. As it turned out, he probably should have gone 3rd oa...clearly better than Drouin, but Barkov is terrific.

I believe I mentioned it in the previous Byfield thread that the issue isn't that he is being criticized like any other non-clear-cut 2/3OA but rather that the major critique is "Hockey IQ" which is comparable to the NFL and what black quarterbacks face.

Now, is it a valid argument? Maybe...it isn't inherently racist to question a player's Hockey IQ but it does seem a little bit of a stretch to say that it is a big issue while also saying in the same breath that the second biggest issue is not using his size properly. So if he isn't using his size effectively and is an idiot out there, how the hell is he putting up the numbers he is putting up? He's a center that runs point on the Sudbury power play and he had over an assist-per-game this past season but he has poor Hockey IQ. Were all of his assists from rebounds off of the goalie?

It is true that there is an element of nitpicking the guy that has been at #2 all year v. seemingly finding no faults with the guy that shot up to #2/3 but you are ignorant if you believe that there isn't an element of not trusting a black player to be your #1C within the old boys scouting network. Smaller sample size, sure, but how many black #1Cs are there/have there been in this league? How many effective black players have there been that weren't power-forward types or bruising defensemen?

I'm not a white knight SJW. Not even close to it. I agree that criticisms aren't solely due to race but there are going to be scouts/writers that allow it to color their opinion.

 

[beaniewong]

He's in a lose lose situation:

Uses his body like he's supposed to --> "he won't be able to do that against NHL players who aren't that small, is he going to be able to translate"

Uses his IQ and skill --> "Doesn't use his body to his potential how can he become elite?"

 

[kilowatt]

Why not keep both guys?

It's best not to engage to be honest

 

[kilowatt]

Context is also pretty important regarding Stützle and Byfield. Byfield led his team in assists (5o) and points (82) and was second in goals (32), but he played in 18 fewer games than the team leader in goals, Blake Murray, who scored 35. Stützle, on the other hand, finished seventh on his team in points scored (34), fourth in assists (27) and ninth in goals (7). Byfield was significantly more important to his team this past season than Stützle was. Here are some of the guys that beat out Stützle in the DEL: Chris Bourque, Ben Smith, Andrew Desjardins, James Sheppard, and Maxim Lapierre.

This isn't meant to diminish Stützle's accomplishments or pump Byfield's tires, but rather, to temper expectations all around. These guys are still kids.

 

[Just Linda]

Context is also pretty important regarding Stützle and Byfield. Byfield led his team in assists (5o) and points (82) and was second in goals (32), but he played in 18 fewer games than the team leader in goals, Blake Murray, who scored 35. Stützle, on the other hand, finished seventh on his team in points scored (34), fourth in assists (27) and ninth in goals (7). Byfield was significantly more important to his team this past season than Stützle was. Here are some of the guys that beat out Stützle in the DEL: Chris Bourque, Ben Smith, Andrew Desjardins, James Sheppard, and Maxim Lapierre.

This isn't meant to diminish Stützle's accomplishments or pump Byfield's tires, but rather, to temper expectations all around. These guys are still kids.

I think the fact that Byfield was often a one man show and any point comparison to Lafreniere or especially Rossi should have an asterisk for that reason but comparing him to a player in a men's league by comparing said player to guys in their early thirties is a backfire comparison. Stutzle should be commended to comparing to those guys rather than be criticized for not putting up their numbers at 17.

 

[jc17]

I think the fact that Byfield was often a one man show and any point comparison to Lafreniere or especially Rossi should have an asterisk for that reason but comparing him to a player in a men's league by comparing said player to guys in their early thirties is a backfire comparison. Stutzle should be commended to comparing to those guys rather than be criticized for not putting up their numbers at 17.

I think one of the interesting things from this year is how all the top scorers led their teams by so much. Byfield, Rossi, Perfetti, Jarvis, Laf. Usually you get more guys like Zary who put up good numbers but have teammates in the same realm. The other guys all led their teams by like 20-30 points which I think Yakupov is the most recent guy to do that and flop.

So even though OHL scoring was inflated this year it's still really impressive that those 3 scored as much as they did., but like you said its most impressive for byfield given the supporting cast.

Its hard to compare Stutzle and comment on how he did in terms of points because it's not a path we see often. But I think the other user's point is that we see people say "Stutzle put up 34 points in 41 games against men!" when its lacking context. Sure in most other pro leagues that would be very good, but it wasn't like he was dominant in a pro league. He was 6th or 7th on his team. Not saying saying this is good or bad, just that there's not much context, and his point total probably shouldnt be used in his favor or against him.

 

[jc17]

Scouching video on Byfield. Basically he likes him a lot, says he's not perfect, but has him ranked at the top of the guys he's scouted the past 2 years, along with Rossi

 

[Boxscore]

Stutzle will be more Nik Ehlers than Patrick Kane. If the Kings pass on Byfield they're crazy.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

I believe I mentioned it in the previous Byfield thread that the issue isn't that he is being criticized like any other non-clear-cut 2/3OA but rather that the major critique is "Hockey IQ" which is comparable to the NFL and what black quarterbacks face.

Now, is it a valid argument? Maybe...it isn't inherently racist to question a player's Hockey IQ but it does seem a little bit of a stretch to say that it is a big issue while also saying in the same breath that the second biggest issue is not using his size properly. So if he isn't using his size effectively and is an idiot out there, how the hell is he putting up the numbers he is putting up? He's a center that runs point on the Sudbury power play and he had over an assist-per-game this past season but he has poor Hockey IQ. Were all of his assists from rebounds off of the goalie?

It is true that there is an element of nitpicking the guy that has been at #2 all year v. seemingly finding no faults with the guy that shot up to #2/3 but you are ignorant if you believe that there isn't an element of not trusting a black player to be your #1C within the old boys scouting network. Smaller sample size, sure, but how many black #1Cs are there/have there been in this league? How many effective black players have there been that weren't power-forward types or bruising defensemen?

I'm not a white knight SJW. Not even close to it. I agree that criticisms aren't solely due to race but there are going to be scouts/writers that allow it to color their opinion.

Isn't using his size properly? In whose eyes? Byfield has more upside than anyone and their no question in my mind's eye that the Los Angeles Kings are taking the potential Franchise Centre from Sudbury Wolves