C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part III

[CLW]

I have questions even about Stutzle making an immediate impact next season, tbh. Again though, it's a moot point. The Rangers are taking Laf at 1. Anyone stating otherwise is lying or just being silly. Every GM in the league would take Laf at 1, as well.

It's not a moot point. We are discussing who will be the better choice down the road, not necessarily what it looks like right now. Laf is the easy, even lazy, choice now because he is easy to project. This draft is interesting exactly because it is possible he will be overtaken by a few players in 4 to 5 years time.

If you are ONLY focused on which player the NYR will draft, yes then it is a moot point. Then again, scouts love saying they are projecting what players will be like down the road, so it will be interesting to see the NYR draft Laf knowing full well other players may emerge as better.

 

[Polar Bear]

It's not a moot point. We are discussing who will be the better choice down the road, not necessarily what it looks like right now. Laf is the easy, even lazy, choice now because he is easy to project. This draft is interesting exactly because it is possible he will be overtaken by a few players in 4 to 5 years time.

If you are ONLY focused on which player the NYR will draft, yes then it is a moot point. Then again, scouts love saying they are projecting what players will be like down the road, so it will be interesting to see the NYR draft Laf knowing full well other players may emerge as better.

I was saying it's a moot point in the sense of discussing the Rangers selecting anyone but Laf, that was my point. It's obviously not a moot point debating Byfield vs Stutzle because there is a valid debate there. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.

Also, I kind of disagree on the potential thing with Laf (I still think he has the highest ceiling which would only be matched IF Byfield can reach his full potential). But that's a totally separate argument and one that's been discussed many times already.

 

[funky]

Every player in this draft has been over analyzed yet under analyzed. They have been put in such an unique position we may never see again. The draft should have been over 3 months ago. Yes we missed a few games but had lots of sample sizes.

these kids are 17 and developing into men. These extra 3 months of dry land training may change the prospect we see next year. Instead of a month off and then prepping for the next season these boys hit the gym. In a perfect world some put on extra mass, some sprout up another inch or so. Stutzle talked about putting on 8 kgs by the end of July, Byfield talked about spending the off season training with Gary Roberts. Lapierre gets extra time to recover from concussions, etc. Extra time to work on their perceived weaknesses.

I will find it very interesting just to see what differences those extra months made. Adding muscle for first step quickness, shot power etc may have changed the ways we look at some of these prospects. Imagine if Perfetti busted ass to work on skating and first step quickness. He may be in the conversation for top 3.
we are basically over analyzing prospects on what could be old information. I think the Skeldon staff’s will have their work cut out for them this year.

I am very curious what Byfield will look like after basically 6 months of a Gary Roberts regiment. He addressed a perceived weakness and I still think sky’s the limit with this guy

 

[Rorschach]

Byfield talked about spending the off season training with Gary Roberts. Lapierre gets extra time to recover from concussions, etc. Extra time to work on their perceived weaknesses.

I will find it very interesting just to see what differences those extra months made. Adding muscle for first step quickness, shot power etc may have changed the ways we look at some of these prospects. Imagine if Perfetti busted ass to work on skating and first step quickness. He may be in the conversation for top 3.
we are basically over analyzing prospects on what could be old information. I think the Skeldon staff’s will have their work cut out for them this year.

I am very curious what Byfield will look like after basically 6 months of a Gary Roberts regiment. He addressed a perceived weakness and I still think sky’s the limit with this guy

I think Roberts’ training is mostly conditioning and that should help him solidify his final juniors season. It should help him play a full season and hopefully give him the physical confidence to invoke some full Lindros against other juniors. And hopefully for him, he also gets traded to a top OHL franchise that lets him get used to the expectations of a winning cultured franchise. Both should help him fulfill his potential at places like the WJC.

But his real training will take place in the NHL. And the team he should hope for in the top 5 pick owners is the Kings. That’s the only team that has developed a Conn Smythe/Hart caliber center the last 20 or so years. But, I think Blake’s choice will be Stutzle, who can make noise immediately, fulfill the hopes of the people who want to win now (owner, Doughty/Kopitar, Robitaille, etc.) and help him with his quest for a GM contract extension.

 

[funky]

I think Roberts’ training is mostly conditioning and that should help him solidify his final juniors season. It should help him play a full season and hopefully give him the physical confidence to invoke some full Lindros against other juniors. And hopefully for him, he also gets traded to a top OHL franchise that lets him get used to the expectations of a winning cultured franchise. Both should help him fulfill his potential at places like the WJC.

But his real training will take place in the NHL. And the team he should hope for in the top 5 pick owners is the Kings. That’s the only team that has developed a Conn Smythe/Hart caliber center the last 20 or so years. But, I think Blake’s choice will be Stutzle, who can make noise immediately, fulfill the hopes of the people who want to win now (owner, Doughty/Kopitar, Robitaille, etc.) and help him with his quest for a GM contract extension.

I agree with everything but the whole Stützle Being more NHL ready than Byfield thing. I don’t think he’s anywhere close to as ready as some believe. I like him as a prospect and for me I believe has potential to be a future star, but lots of games, highlight packages, even most of the write up I read Do not show me he will make an immediate jump to the NHL.

At this point there are two things that really stuck out to me. Number one is his shot. It is not NHL quality at this point. I do not like the power behind it and I haven’t been awfully impressed with how accurate it is even if a lot of the write ups say he has an accurate shot. Now I don’t get to watch them play every game, but even in some of the highlight reels he has seen shooting point Blank into the goalie.

Number two is the way he uses the perimeter space in the offensive zone. He uses the whole ice which over in Europe is 15 feet wider to build speed, keep speed, protect the puck and look for passing lanes. Take that space away combined with the fact that almost every defender in the NHL can skate way better than the defenders he’s facing in Germany he’s going to have to redefine his game. He will not have the space to set up like he is used to, and the lack of space means lack of time.

There is some videos I watched where he actually leaves the zone on the power play takes a turn and comes back into the attacking zone while his team still has control of the puck in the offensive zone. That’s not gonna happen in the NHL. There’s no way an NHL team will let him build up speed like that entering the zone.
no I think he is smart enough and has the skill to overcome all this, I just don’t think it will be next year playing in the NHL. I see Jack Hughes is having a much higher skill set, shot, etc. and look how he struggled.

There are very few rookies that can step right into the NHL and I don’t think that these prospects should be punished for that. I know Byfield has some stuff he has to clean up as well but I do not see any prospect in this draft other than Lafreniere that looks more NHL ready then the others. Saying that I would be happy with a 50 points season out of him.

I do see this draft producing a high end player that evolves on a timetable like a certain Oiler superstar, and I don’t mean McDavid.

the talent in this draft is there for me to believe we should eventually get at least one star/ possible superstar. At this point it could be Lafreniere , it could be Byfield, it could be Stützle, or it could even be a guy like Holtz, Raymond or a wildcard like Gunler. I just do not believe it will be overnight.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Also, I kind of disagree on the potential thing with Laf (I still think he has the highest ceiling which would only be matched IF Byfield can reach his full potential).

No kidding.

The rangers are gonna draft Laf ?


That said. We are all a bunch of armchair fans, who like to talk about hockey. I think we all agree this draft has no McDavid, Ovechkin, Stamkos kind of player. This talk about ceilings is just utter nonsense. Most just prefer a player because what he is now and that is okay. I would not even be surprised if there is any other player, down the road, who will be the best of the bunch.

 

[Just Linda]

I agree with everything but the whole Stützle Being more NHL ready than Byfield thing. I don’t think he’s anywhere close to as ready as some believe. I like him as a prospect and for me I believe has potential to be a future star, but lots of games, highlight packages, even most of the write up I read Do not show me he will make an immediate jump to the NHL.

At this point there are two things that really stuck out to me. Number one is his shot. It is not NHL quality at this point. I do not like the power behind it and I haven’t been awfully impressed with how accurate it is even if a lot of the write ups say he has an accurate shot. Now I don’t get to watch them play every game, but even in some of the highlight reels he has seen shooting point Blank into the goalie.

Number two is the way he uses the perimeter space in the offensive zone. He uses the whole ice which over in Europe is 15 feet wider to build speed, keep speed, protect the puck and look for passing lanes. Take that space away combined with the fact that almost every defender in the NHL can skate way better than the defenders he’s facing in Germany he’s going to have to redefine his game. He will not have the space to set up like he is used to, and the lack of space means lack of time.

There is some videos I watched where he actually leaves the zone on the power play takes a turn and comes back into the attacking zone while his team still has control of the puck in the offensive zone. That’s not gonna happen in the NHL. There’s no way an NHL team will let him build up speed like that entering the zone.
no I think he is smart enough and has the skill to overcome all this, I just don’t think it will be next year playing in the NHL. I see Jack Hughes is having a much higher skill set, shot, etc. and look how he struggled.

There are very few rookies that can step right into the NHL and I don’t think that these prospects should be punished for that. I know Byfield has some stuff he has to clean up as well but I do not see any prospect in this draft other than Lafreniere that looks more NHL ready then the others. Saying that I would be happy with a 50 points season out of him.

I do see this draft producing a high end player that evolves on a timetable like a certain Oiler superstar, and I don’t mean McDavid.

the talent in this draft is there for me to believe we should eventually get at least one star/ possible superstar. At this point it could be Lafreniere , it could be Byfield, it could be Stützle, or it could even be a guy like Holtz, Raymond or a wildcard like Gunler. I just do not believe it will be overnight.

Absolutely. One thing I noticed in my last play through of the tapes I have on Stutzle was that over a 9 game stretch I watched, he only went to the net when he had the puck. He would pick a backdoor on a d (often from the corner) and skate the puck to the net off a gap. Pretty much goalies went unchallenged with him on the ice, he has no net front presence I've seen.

As a winger at the NHL level, that's okay. As a centre, won't work.

Stutzle might be close to being NHL ready but he's still a ways off being NHL centre ready. I'd go as far as arguing that Byfield is closer to being NHL centre ready than Stutzle

 

[Samsquanch]

Its pretty funny that Sens fans have been called out left, right and center for pointing out that LA has a very strong connection to Germany and the DEL, and for mentioning that some news sources have linked Stutzle and the Kings together...

Clearly were grasping at straws though right...? All just a work of fiction...

Eisbären Berlin leihen Spieler der LA Kings aus | Eisbären Berlin



Byfield to the Sens. Deal with it Kings dudes.

PS yes, Im joking. And no this doesnt change anything other than what we already know - the Kings have a VERY strong connection with Germany and the DEL. And we dont know who they're going to choose until the draft happens. Those are all hard facts that we dont need to argue over.

But its still fun throwing it out there because its been made clear how badly it gets under the skin of Kings fans for some reason

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lukas Reichel plays for Eisbaren...

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

Lukas Reichel plays for Eisbaren...

Confirmed, Lukas Reichel will go 2nd OA!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Confirmed, Lukas Reichel will go 2nd OA!

 

[AustonMarner]

The reality is that a black player will be drafted in the top 3 for, I believe, the first time ever. The sad part, IMO, is that people are imagining things as negative and "ugly" instead of seeing the actual positives and celebrating how far the sport has come.

Players get criticized and even passed over often. The poster that you quoted said "he of all players" to make it look like an issue of race, but, if you take "all players" to mean ever, it's happened to many players regardless of race. Just last year, Arthur Kaliyev was expected to be drafted by the middle of the 1st round, yet he dropped all of the way to the 2nd because of a supposed "poor work ethic." Can you imagine if he had been black? People would've been convinced that he fell because of it and condemned the league for it.

No one questioned Byfield being the #2 pick until January. It's not that that's when he became black. That's just when he had a poor WJC and Stutzle surged into the conversation. He's faced extra scrutiny since because there's now a debate about whether he might slip to #3... and why. There's no mystery to it. The only mystery is why people assume that it's racism when he was the consensus #2 for a year and a half and will still make history by going in the top 3. There's a lot of reason to feel good about the progress represented here and not a lot of reason to see and feel the opposite, IMO.

Why did you have to point out at all he was black?? Looks like future #1 center to me..

 

[93LEAFS]

Sadly if he goes the Sens, I know for certain (from firsthand experience as both a Wolves and Sens fan - small market teams) that the disproportionate amount disrespect and doubt that Byfield gets will follow him until he posts multiple star level seasons at the pro level.

Hes absolutely going to do it, but one day were going to ask the question why he of all players got dragged down and picked apart by so many people. And the answer could be an ugly one, but somehow not surprising in this sport.

Almost all top prospects get picked apart. Do you not remember Brady Tkachuk?

Just because you think he's an automatic star, doesn't mean other people are wrong for questioning that and the likelihood of him getting there (you seem to think its automatic). And, that isn't disrespect. People are picking apart Stutzle too. Hell, people also question Lafreniere's upside (commonly in this thread saying Byfield has more potential), is that disrespecting Lafreniere?

People need to be more thick skinned on this stuff. Yes, guys like Aliu and Ho-Sang got dragged through the mud, but so did Ryan Merkley, Shinkaruk, and Kyle Beach. The questioning about Byfield's ability is no different than most top prospects unless you are talking McDavid or Crosby. Look at how Matthews got picked apart by people adamantly thinking Laine was worth going 1OA. Or Tavares's skating in his draft year. This is just stuff that comes with the territory of being in the discussion of a top 3 pick.

 

[SKingsfan88]

Almost all top prospects get picked apart. Do you not remember Brady Tkachuk?

Just because you think he's an automatic star, doesn't mean other people are wrong for questioning that and the likelihood of him getting there (you seem to think its automatic). And, that isn't disrespect. People are picking apart Stutzle too. Hell, people also question Lafreniere's upside (commonly in this thread saying Byfield has more potential), is that disrespecting Lafreniere?

People need to be more thick skinned on this stuff. Yes, guys like Aliu and Ho-Sang got dragged through the mud, but so did Ryan Merkley, Shinkaruk, and Kyle Beach. The questioning about Byfield's ability is no different than most top prospects unless you are talking McDavid or Crosby. Look at how Matthews got picked apart by people adamantly thinking Laine was worth going 1OA. Or Tavares's skating in his draft year. This is just stuff that comes with the territory of being in the discussion of a top 3 pick.

I think it’s just how much more often people are picking Byfield apart. We’re on the third thread of it and has been some pretty stupid stuff like race brought up for a few days there. Where a guy like Stützle has one thread that no one has commented in for 2 weeks now.... I’m gonna be happy with whoever the kings draft as long as it’s one of Byfield/Stützle. I’ve been team Byfield since it looked like the kings would have a shot at him but Stützle has been growing on me and either one will be great.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Broken record but, i'd still put my money on Quinton Byfield 1st overall pick by the Los Angeles Kings.

 

[Polar Bear]

Broken record but, i'd still put my money on Quinton Byfield 1st overall pick by the Los Angeles Kings.

Wut.

 

[Realgud]

I agree with everything but the whole Stützle Being more NHL ready than Byfield thing. I don’t think he’s anywhere close to as ready as some believe. I like him as a prospect and for me I believe has potential to be a future star, but lots of games, highlight packages, even most of the write up I read Do not show me he will make an immediate jump to the NHL.

At this point there are two things that really stuck out to me. Number one is his shot. It is not NHL quality at this point. I do not like the power behind it and I haven’t been awfully impressed with how accurate it is even if a lot of the write ups say he has an accurate shot. Now I don’t get to watch them play every game, but even in some of the highlight reels he has seen shooting point Blank into the goalie.

Number two is the way he uses the perimeter space in the offensive zone. He uses the whole ice which over in Europe is 15 feet wider to build speed, keep speed, protect the puck and look for passing lanes. Take that space away combined with the fact that almost every defender in the NHL can skate way better than the defenders he’s facing in Germany he’s going to have to redefine his game. He will not have the space to set up like he is used to, and the lack of space means lack of time.

There is some videos I watched where he actually leaves the zone on the power play takes a turn and comes back into the attacking zone while his team still has control of the puck in the offensive zone. That’s not gonna happen in the NHL. There’s no way an NHL team will let him build up speed like that entering the zone.
no I think he is smart enough and has the skill to overcome all this, I just don’t think it will be next year playing in the NHL. I see Jack Hughes is having a much higher skill set, shot, etc. and look how he struggled.

There are very few rookies that can step right into the NHL and I don’t think that these prospects should be punished for that. I know Byfield has some stuff he has to clean up as well but I do not see any prospect in this draft other than Lafreniere that looks more NHL ready then the others. Saying that I would be happy with a 50 points season out of him.

I do see this draft producing a high end player that evolves on a timetable like a certain Oiler superstar, and I don’t mean McDavid.

the talent in this draft is there for me to believe we should eventually get at least one star/ possible superstar. At this point it could be Lafreniere , it could be Byfield, it could be Stützle, or it could even be a guy like Holtz, Raymond or a wildcard like Gunler. I just do not believe it will be overnight.

Interestingly enough, I've had almost the exact same thoughts about Stützle for a while now. To me Byfield and Raymond have always been superior prospects.

 

[Samsquanch]

Almost all top prospects get picked apart. Do you not remember Brady Tkachuk?

Just because you think he's an automatic star, doesn't mean other people are wrong for questioning that and the likelihood of him getting there (you seem to think its automatic). And, that isn't disrespect. People are picking apart Stutzle too. Hell, people also question Lafreniere's upside (commonly in this thread saying Byfield has more potential), is that disrespecting Lafreniere?

People need to be more thick skinned on this stuff. Yes, guys like Aliu and Ho-Sang got dragged through the mud, but so did Ryan Merkley, Shinkaruk, and Kyle Beach. The questioning about Byfield's ability is no different than most top prospects unless you are talking McDavid or Crosby. Look at how Matthews got picked apart by people adamantly thinking Laine was worth going 1OA. Or Tavares's skating in his draft year. This is just stuff that comes with the territory of being in the discussion of a top 3 pick.

With all due respect to my boy Brady Tkachuk, the questions about his offensive upside were warranted (if you only looked at the stats sheet - his coach at BU would tell you differently though).

The problem that I have with the main criticisms of Byfield from his detractors (low IQ, bad work ethic, bad attitude, reliance on his physical tools to get points) - and this is coming from someone who's seen him play at least 80 times over the last couple of seasons (including 25 or so live games) - is that they are all comically inaccurate. And if a critic doesnt even mention his positioning as being a flaw, and they just keep on doubling down on the questionable hockey IQ myth, then they're just a bad scout/evaluator of talent (or not watching him at all).

Hockey IQ and the ability to generate offense will never be this kids problem. QB is a skilled offensive phenom in a big, fast and agile body. All of his real flaws are related to the fact that his two way game was basically non existent when he first arrived in Sudbury as a kid who hadnt turned 16yrs old yet. And that he needed to learn how to play physically and use his body properly.

People need to be more thick skinned on this stuff. Yes, guys like Aliu and Ho-Sang got dragged through the mud.....

Yeah...Im gonna go ahead and disagree with whatever point your trying to make here after this line....People dont need to be more thick skinned about this stuff... People (like yourself) need to be more aware that this shit happens all of the time for minority people, still to this day.

This isnt at all like Tavares' skating being questioned at the draft - something that literally no one claimed was untrue. This would be like people saying that Tavares had questionable vision/passing and that he was one dimensional in the offensive zone, or if people were pulling questions out of thin air about his work ethic and a supposed bad attitude.

And so I cant help but feel like QBs race is perhaps the underlying reason (maybe its even subconscious) why his hockey IQ always gets zeroed in on by his harshest critics - despite him putting on a brilliant and near historic OHL performance (PPG for his age) on the Wolves. And despite the vast majority of scouts saying that hes the best center to come along in years, and has franchise potential written all over him.

Keep in mind he missed 18 games (of 63) and still factored in on 36% of his teams goals. He did all he could with the talent that he had. He carried that team into relevance (1st place in their div both years) and had tremendous growth as a two way center along the way.

And its very well documented that black players have been discriminated against in team sports for their supposedly low IQ, including hockey - the whitest of all of the major sports fwiw...For whatever reason they are seemingly held to a different set of standards than the white athletes are.


TLDR - your a hack (or something worse) if you think QB isnt an elite offensive hockey prospect. Imo anyways.

 

[Peasy]

The Byfield bashing has now seeped into the Seth Jarvis thread

It's crazy how much you hear people talk about being worried Byfield's scoring won't translate to the NHL but the same people have no concerns for it with any other prospect.

I've also noticed that many of his goals were off plays created by his linemates and he was not generating as much offense as you'd expect for a player with his stat line.

Then you get nonsense posts like this. Like take a look at Sudbury's record and stats with Byfield in the line up compared to when he's out. Sudbury is straight garbage without Byfield playing but apparently he's the one not generating offence now?

 

[Seventyx7]

The Byfield bashing has now seeped into the Seth Jarvis thread

It's crazy how much you hear people talk about being worried Byfield's scoring won't translate to the NHL but the same people have no concerns for it with any other prospect.



Then you get nonsense posts like this. Like take a look at Sudbury's record and stats with Byfield in the line up compared to when he's out. Sudbury is straight garbage without Byfield playing but apparently he's the one not generating offence now?

A bad take about a player on a message board? Byfield may be the first player to experience such an occurrence!

 

[Mats26]

Not really sure what all the hate is about but he is clearly a top level prospect worthy of a top 2 pick and #1 overall for a 2021 draft if he was born just a few weeks older.

Since the 2016 Regular Season: The last 4 development years.

Lafreniere
Games: 209
Goals:147(0.70)
Assists: 233 (1.11)
Points 380 (1.81)

Byfield
Games: 176
Goals:156(0.88)
Assists: 187 (1.07)
Points 343 (1.94)


One of them has not played a game as an 18 year old. Also plays the more important and demanding position as a Center and has tons of potential left.
Anyone mocking drafts picking QB outside a top 3 pick is in need of some serious meds.

 

[Lt Dan]

Not really sure what all the hate is about but he is clearly a top level prospect worthy of a top 2 pick and #1 overall for a 2021 draft if he was born just a few weeks older.

Since the 2016 Regular Season: The last 4 development years.

Lafreniere
Games: 209
Goals:147(0.70)
Assists: 233 (1.11)
Points 380 (1.81)

Byfield
Games: 176
Goals:156(0.88)
Assists: 187 (1.07)
Points 343 (1.94)


One of them has not played a game as an 18 year old. Also plays the more important and demanding position as a Center and has tons of potential left.
Anyone mocking drafts picking QB outside a top 3 pick is in need of some serious meds.

It's like they are trying to Jedi Mind trick us in to not picking him, but they don't realize that jedi mind tricks don't work on Toydarians

 

[Osprey]

Why did you have to point out at all he was black?? Looks like future #1 center to me..

I was replying to others who had made the discussion about that and was trying to put an end to it. Why did you have to necro-reply two weeks later bring that subject back up?

 

[Polar Bear]

Not really sure what all the hate is about but he is clearly a top level prospect worthy of a top 2 pick and #1 overall for a 2021 draft if he was born just a few weeks older.

Since the 2016 Regular Season: The last 4 development years.

Lafreniere
Games: 209
Goals:147(0.70)
Assists: 233 (1.11)
Points 380 (1.81)

Byfield
Games: 176
Goals:156(0.88)
Assists: 187 (1.07)
Points 343 (1.94)


One of them has not played a game as an 18 year old. Also plays the more important and demanding position as a Center and has tons of potential left.
Anyone mocking drafts picking QB outside a top 3 pick is in need of some serious meds.

I agree that if QB was eligible for 2021, he'd be the first overall pick.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]