C Leo Carlsson (2023, 2nd, ANA)

[theslatcher]

As a sharks fan, and therefore highly credible because my future pain will correlate strongly to Ducks success, I'm more worried about Carlsson's career than if they had drafted Fantilli.

Off topic, but I'm less worried about Gauthier, except he'll be annoying.

I hate that Michkov bleeds into every thread because of about three posters who are everywhere, but I firmly believe that either directly or indirectly he signaled to both ANA and SJS that he wasn't very interested to play for them. The agent is on the record about Arizona, but the full quote was about non hockey markets, which I believe he meant included the CA teams and probably CBJ also. Grier was very terse and annoyed when asked if they had talked to him and answered only "we talked to every Russian player we wanted to." Either way, ANA got a gem in Carlsson, if he can stay healthy.

Can't see that including Anaheim, going by what Michkov's agent said (see here: Matvei Michkov’s agent, Sergei Fedotov, says the Russian forward did not want to be drafted by the Capitals).

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Anyways, will be interesting to see if Anaheim lets Carlsson play at Worlds this year.

 

[Boxscore]

Got it now......you were somehow ''offended'' by that and now you feel the need to totally downgrade Fantilli.

Offended? That's a bizarre take. I'm stating a fact. The narrative at the time was that Fantilli is a better offensive player and the Ducks made a mistake by selecting Carlsson over him. My point today is that the offense has been on par this season, based on actual points and games played. There's nothing to be offended by. And how am I exactly "downgrading" Fantilli? I put his points down in black and white and showed they are on par with Carlsson (but not superior as many expected). I just happen to think trying to isolate 5v5 production, instead of letting all the points and play speak for itself is trying to paint a picture of Fantilli somehow outproducing Carlsson this year, which is of course, silly lol.

And, in my OPINION, I think it's fair to have expected Fantilli to outproduce Carlsson this season considering he was (at the time) stepping into a room with more weapons, proven players, and depth. And, many were on the fence about Carlsson even playing in the NHL outside of the 9 games. Now we can look back and debate the Jackets overall success this season, but at the beginning of the season, everyone expected Columbus to be better than they were.

 

[Leonardo87]

Folks, enough of Michkov. Thank you.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Offended? That's a bizarre take. I'm stating a fact. The narrative at the time was that Fantilli is a better offensive player and the Ducks made a mistake by selecting Carlsson over him. My point today is that the offense has been on par this season, based on actual points and games played. There's nothing to be offended by. And how am I exactly "downgrading" Fantilli? I put his points down in black and white and showed they are on par with Carlsson (but not superior as many expected). I just happen to think trying to isolate 5v5 production, instead of letting all the points and play speak for itself is trying to paint a picture of Fantilli somehow outproducing Carlsson this year, which is of course, silly lol.

And, in my OPINION, I think it's fair to have expected Fantilli to outproduce Carlsson this season considering he was (at the time) stepping into a room with more weapons, proven players, and depth. And, many were on the fence about Carlsson even playing in the NHL outside of the 9 games. Now we can look back and debate the Jackets overall success this season, but at the beginning of the season, everyone expected Columbus to be better than they were.

1] What you have experienced (social media, HF etc etc) is now a stated fact ?
2] At the beginning of the season everyone expected Columbus to be better ? (Pts% .360, .494 & .429 the last three seasons).
3] From “borderline criminal Fantilli did not outproduce Carlsson” to “on par”. We are getting there.
4] I never spoke about 5 vs 5 production.

One word: Laughable.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ignoring the need to make comparisons, with the way he's looked (especially some of the flashes he's shown), I'd be shocked if Anaheim regrets the pick. They'd pick him again if given a do over.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Not to do comparisons, but having watched a bunch of Fantilli and nearly every minute of Carlsson this year, what has been surprising to me is that Fantilli is a better playmaker than I expected and Carlsson a better shooter/skater than I expected.

I think that is Incredibly positive for both players. These were their perceived weaknesses that may hold them back from being elite, but I don’t see it. Sky’s the limit for both.

 

[Kalv]

Not to do comparisons, but having watched a bunch of Fantilli and nearly every minute of Carlsson this year, what has been surprising to me is that Fantilli is a better playmaker than I expected and Carlsson a better shooter/skater than I expected.

I think that is Incredibly positive for both players. These were their perceived weaknesses that may hold them back from being elite, but I don’t see it. Sky’s the limit for both.

I'd say also about Leo's skating and Fanta's hockey iq. Both are also better than expected.

 

[HanSolo]

I'd say also about Leo's skating and Fanta's hockey iq. Both are also better than expected.

I've always felt Fantilli's hockey IQ issues were dramatically overblown. Like sure he would make the occasional mistimed or misaimed pass but at 17-18 a lot of these kids are experimenting with what works and what doesn't. To me, low hockey IQ manifests where a player struggles to make good decisions on the ice that an average player would easily and consistently make correctly. It doesn't come from players making shift by shift errors coming from offensive or defensive pressure situations otherwise you can say the majority of the NHL has low hockey IQ.

High hockey IQ manifests from players, be it through chance creation, skill moves, puck distribution or positioning, executing plays to impact the game that most players wouldn't think of trying.

Is Fantilli in a crop of the highest hockey IQ young players? Probably not but he doesn't really have issues there either.

I think both Anaheim and Columbus should be very satisfied with the guy they respectively got. There's some growing pains but that's not weird in a D+1 NHL season. Both have shown potential for brilliance.

 

[lwvs84]

I feel like at the time of the #2 pick, Fantilli was a better pick based on skill set/scouting reports for the Ducks. Fast, high energy, goal scorer was exactly what the Ducks needed. Fast forward nearly a year, the Ducks added a few (potential) support players in the draft after Carlsson, Colangelo (if he's signed) seems to be a better goal scoring wing than he was thought of a year ago, and most importantly the Ducks traded for Gauthier who projects as a goal scoring wing. I don't think there was a wrong pick between the two, but given everything that has happened since the draft Carlsson is now the better fit between the two.

 

[majormajor]

I've always felt Fantilli's hockey IQ issues were dramatically overblown. Like sure he would make the occasional mistimed or misaimed pass but at 17-18 a lot of these kids are experimenting with what works and what doesn't. To me, low hockey IQ manifests where a player struggles to make good decisions on the ice that an average player would easily and consistently make correctly. It doesn't come from players making shift by shift errors coming from offensive or defensive pressure situations otherwise you can say the majority of the NHL has low hockey IQ.

High hockey IQ manifests from players, be it through chance creation, skill moves, puck distribution or positioning, executing plays to impact the game that most players wouldn't think of trying.

Is Fantilli in a crop of the highest hockey IQ young players? Probably not but he doesn't really have issues there either.

I think both Anaheim and Columbus should be very satisfied with the guy they respectively got. There's some growing pains but that's not weird in a D+1 NHL season. Both have shown potential for brilliance.

Fantilli certainly doesn't have low hockey IQ. I don't think it's as good as Carlsson's but it's not bad at all. People also overstated how much it would hinder his game. I think he can play a Mackinnon type game -early in his career Mackinnon was known to skate the puck full speed into dead ends, he didn't have the deception he has now and defenders could read him.

When you have that type of skill you can score a lot of points without needing to make advanced reads about your teammates. A lot of Fantilli's scoring this year came off plays where he skated in himself and beat the goalie clean, with no teammate around. Quite far from this idea that Fantilli drew some great benefit from his teammates' scoring, Fantilli is one of the most independent players you can find.

On the flip side of it I personally enjoy Leo Carlsson's type of play more. I had to ask myself this a lot last year whether I really thought Carlsson was going to be better or if I just enjoyed watching him more. There's a bit less flash (but still a ton of flash in Carlsson) and more impressive team play.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Not to do comparisons, but having watched a bunch of Fantilli and nearly every minute of Carlsson this year, what has been surprising to me is that Fantilli is a better playmaker than I expected and Carlsson a better shooter/skater than I expected.

I think that is Incredibly positive for both players. These were their perceived weaknesses that may hold them back from being elite, but I don’t see it. Sky’s the limit for both.

I'd say also about Leo's skating and Fanta's hockey iq. Both are also better than expected.

I've always felt Fantilli's hockey IQ issues were dramatically overblown. Like sure he would make the occasional mistimed or misaimed pass but at 17-18 a lot of these kids are experimenting with what works and what doesn't. To me, low hockey IQ manifests where a player struggles to make good decisions on the ice that an average player would easily and consistently make correctly. It doesn't come from players making shift by shift errors coming from offensive or defensive pressure situations otherwise you can say the majority of the NHL has low hockey IQ.

High hockey IQ manifests from players, be it through chance creation, skill moves, puck distribution or positioning, executing plays to impact the game that most players wouldn't think of trying.

Is Fantilli in a crop of the highest hockey IQ young players? Probably not but he doesn't really have issues there either.

I think both Anaheim and Columbus should be very satisfied with the guy they respectively got. There's some growing pains but that's not weird in a D+1 NHL season. Both have shown potential for brilliance.

Pretty much, #2 and #3 in 2023 would go #1 in most drafts. Remember how hard teams were trying to trade into the first round of 2023 ? and none of the teams traded their 1sts on draft day.
Was such a great year to have a guarenteed top3 pick lol. Looking more and more like the 2015 draft.