C Joseph Veleno (2018, 30th, DET) II

[WingsMJN2965]

Two goals and an assist today, for the guy who fell to #30 because he has no offensive ability.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Will be a top 3 center of his draft. New toy bias made players nowhere near as good as him sexier since he was known for so long, but he was the best player in both prospect games I watched ainec

I stand by my statement that I would not trade him for Hayton or Dellandria

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Th

Two goals and an assist today, for the guy who fell to #30 because he has no offensive ability.

That skating truly needs some work, though.

 

[Dominance]

Will be a top 3 center of his draft. New toy bias made players nowhere near as good as him sexier since he was known for so long, but he was the best player in both prospect games I watched ainec

Exactly. I thought he should have been a top-10 pick. It was hilarious to read the scouting reports last year on him, and how obvious it was that they were completely zeroed in on some obvious faults that were equally or more present in so many other prospects, yet were more or less ignored in the latter cases with stereotypical wide-brush comments such as “needs to physically mature”, “could stand to engage more consistently, but he’s still young and can learn from xxxx”.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Two goals and an assist today, for the guy who fell to #30 because he has no offensive ability.

lol

 

[tomd]

Will be a top 3 center of his draft. New toy bias made players nowhere near as good as him sexier since he was known for so long, but he was the best player in both prospect games I watched ainec

Would not trade him for Hayton or Dellandria

He almost certainly suffered from expectations that were unrealistically high coming into the 17-18 season. Having said that, drafting is all about projecting at the NHL level and I'm sure there were many teams that didn't see him as a top 6 forward at that level. we'll know soon enough.

As for top 3 centers, I wouldn't count out Lundestrom in that discussion. It appears he may have been quite underrated going into the draft as well. Ducks may have hit another swedish homerun.

 

[goonybird]

Exactly. I thought he should have been a top-10 pick. It was hilarious to read the scouting reports last year on him, and how obvious it was that they were completely zeroed in on some obvious faults that were equally or more present in so many other prospects, yet were more or less ignored in the latter cases with stereotypical wide-brush comments such as “needs to physically mature”, “could stand to engage more consistently, but he’s still young and can learn from xxxx”.

honestly who the shit thought a 6'1" 195 lbs 17 year old wasn't physically mature? I'm not saying he's as solid as a brick shithouse but he's far from meek

oh nvm I think I misread

Ya he's decent. Could be a decent 3rd/2nd liner like Jordan Staal or a better scoring centre like Eric Staal. Similar mold anyways

 

[newfy]

Yeah he had a really good prospects tournament. He produced but wasnt on the same level offensively as Zadina or Rasmussen are at this point. I thought his biggest asset was obviously his skating and his ability to carry the puck at high speed amd gain the other teams zone. If he makes the NHL I could see that being a valuable asset on a PP, even if his 5 on 5 offense isnt strong enough to warrant being more than a third liner.

Hes got some things to work on, but this tournament he looked like he should've been picked a bit higher in the draft. I know it just one game, but he was clearly better than Dellandrea when they played each other. I'm still not sure Velenos 5 on 5 offense ever develops past the point of a third line center but he could still be a valuable pick at 30 and looks to be on track to be an NHLer

 

[ijuka]

I still don't at all understand any of the talk about his "offense not being good enough to be anything more than a 3rd liner".

 

[newfy]

I still don't at all understand any of the talk about his "offense not being good enough to be anything more than a 3rd liner".

His shot isnt great and not every prospect pans out. He could definitely become more than that but I think a lot of people see him as a safe third liner because he does a bit of everything well but not great (except skating which is elite). Hes got an NHL team developing him now though so there could be some break throughs in areas of his game that also become great and he ends up a top 6 center as well

 

[ijuka]

His shot isnt great and not every prospect pans out.

The second part is true for every prospect and there are tons of 2Cs with poor shots. A good shot isn't even necessary to score many goals.

And saying that he "does everything well but not great" is just a way for these scouts to justify placing him so low because they can't find actual, serious weaknesses in him.

 

[newfy]

The second part is true for every prospect and there are tons of 2Cs with poor shots. A good shot isn't even necessary to score many goals.

And saying that he "does everything well but not great" is just a way for these scouts to justify placing him so low because they can't find actual, serious weaknesses in him.

Outside of his shot, I wouldnt say he has any serious weakness in him. Thats why he was a first round pick. If he had an elite shot, leading him to score a bunch of goals combined with his lack of other weaknesses he was probably a top 7 or 8 pick.

It is true that hes a well rounded player, making him a safe bet to be an NHLer, but it is also a reason to have him lower in the first as well. That is perfect justification for scouts having him lower.

You dont consistently score a lot without an elite shot or net front play in the NHL, you dont consistently dangle around NHL dmen with good but not great hands, you dont consistently put up 50 assists without elite vision. But with all of these skills being pretty good, you can be a well rounded, impact player that just isnt the very top of the league. You could havea few seasons where something really clicks and you produce at a first line level but its not as easy to continue without an elite skill to rely on.

Veleno has plenty of time to develop some of these aspects and I think he was drafted a bit lower than he should've been, but hes also not some stud, blue chip guaranteed top line center either

 

[Mrb1p]

The second part is true for every prospect and there are tons of 2Cs with poor shots. A good shot isn't even necessary to score many goals.

And saying that he "does everything well but not great" is just a way for these scouts to justify placing him so low because they can't find actual, serious weaknesses in him.

His shot is a serious weakness. You don't score goals if you don't have a good shot. Look at a guy like Barzal, he has a poor shot, but he has to be exceptional every where else to succeed offensively, do you think Veleno is comparable to that ?

Also, I love how people just brush aside a whole year of him being really meh, but choose to concentrate on three games in a rookie tournament.

 

[tfong]

A faster Stajan. Is sofar what I've seen from the broadcasts. They even have the same muffin shot haha.

 

[raymond23]

His shot is a serious weakness. You don't score goals if you don't have a good shot. Look at a guy like Barzal, he has a poor shot, but he has to be exceptional every where else to succeed offensively, do you think Veleno is comparable to that ?

Also, I love how people just brush aside a whole year of him being really meh, but choose to concentrate on three games in a rookie tournament.

The second half of his season was "meh"?

He's been close to what I expected. Super polished. Hoping he dominates in juniors this year.

 

[izlez]

I swear, prospects being traded severely hurts prospects reputations because people like looking at stats, but hate doing simple addition

 

[ijuka]

His shot is a serious weakness. You don't score goals if you don't have a good shot.

This just... isn't true. If you're in a good scoring position, even a bad shot is enough.

 

[Mrb1p]

This just... isn't true. If you're in a good scoring position, even a bad shot is enough.

Well, if youre around the net, sure, then its more hand-eye, but to be a threat offensively, you have to be a threat to score, or theyll just take this option away from you.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Scored on a really nice shot last game. 5 points in 3 games is good stuff.

 

[Frk It]

His shot is a serious weakness. You don't score goals if you don't have a good shot. Look at a guy like Barzal, he has a poor shot, but he has to be exceptional every where else to succeed offensively, do you think Veleno is comparable to that ?

Also, I love how people just brush aside a whole year of him being really meh, but choose to concentrate on three games in a rookie tournament.

What year are you referring to? Because he was very good the 2nd half of his draft season.

 

[Mrb1p]

What year are you referring to? Because he was very good the 2nd half of his draft season.

Very good ? Second half ?

He was good for a dozen games, where he posted something like 20 points in 10ish games, and he was back to being PPG, like in SJ.

He also did nothing at the U18.

And this is not me statswatching, Ive actually commented on this live, during the U18, just check the habs board for my (And about a dozen other regular) comments about him, we all agreed he pretty much was a 30th or so prospect in value, and thats where he was picked, which is fine, just don't make him out to be something he isn't.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Veleno is going to looked for years due to his expected draft position about # 10 to his falling to # 30. We'll see if all those teams that bypassed him were right/wrong. I thought the Leafs were going to get at # 29 because the Leafs have no centre depth in the Marlies or prospects. Maybe Dubas knew on draft day, that he was going to sign Tavares, so he bypassed Veleno for that reason or just maybe he really loved LHD Sandin.
Anyway good luck to Veleno and the Wings

 

[D0ctorCool]

Those who are expecting him to be McDavid-lite need to temper their expectations.

 

[Dominance]

Those who are expecting him to be McDavid-lite need to temper their expectations.

Thanks for the heads up. I, for one, was absolutely expecting the 30th overall pick to be winning the Art Ross Trophy in his D+2 and D+3.

Your comment is about two-three years late .

 

[cg98]

Those who are expecting him to be McDavid-lite need to temper their expectations.

I think everyone sees Veleno as a let down because he was given exceptional status and some tried putting him in the tier with Tavares, Ekblad and McDavid. He was never as skilled as them at their age and he shouldn't have been given exceptional status, that was a mistake. But he's never been a bad player by any means.