C Jay O'Brien - Toronto Marlies, AHL (2018, 19th, PHI released)

[bigdog16]

USHL is totally inflated by the NTDP teams, its very similar in quality to the BCHL.

The USHL is night and day better than the BCHL

 

[MSSLYNX]

Had Harris gone to the BCHL, I don't think anyone would care given that he's a 3rd rounder.

Yep, the Nolan Patrick thing i know. Excellent if picked 11th but bust at 2. Hopefully they are just kidding.

 

[MSSLYNX]

The USHL is night and day better than the BCHL

Same transfer rules from NCAA? edit: just found tidbit: The biggest difference between Canadian major junior and the USHL is that the USHL is NCAA compliant

 

[4Twenty]

I guess we agree to disagree.

Last year NHL Draft:
57 USHL players
7 BCHL

Not close.

The level of play/competition is similar. My comparison isn't about NHL draftees.

 

[BondraTime]

Same transfer rules from NCAA? edit: just found tidbit: The biggest difference between Canadian major junior and the USHL is that the USHL is NCAA compliant

Yes, but he's not heading to Major Junior. He's heading to the league below Major Junior.

USHL as a 20 would have been very strange, the BCHL at 20 is just baffling.

 

[bigdog16]

The level of play/competition is similar. My comparison isn't about NHL draftees.

No its not. Save for maybe 1 BCHL team at the top who is usually loaded, the USHL top to bottom wipes the floor with the BCHL

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Same transfer rules from NCAA?

Transfer rules have nothing to do with either league. It was a one year sit out regardless of which league he went to between two.

Both the USHL & BCHL are considered amateur leagues by the NCAA so he could play in both & keep his NCAA eligibility in tact for when he’s eligible to re-join the NCAA in 2020-2021.

 

[Newfoundland]

Bust

 

[Doublechin]

Bust

Yup

Biggest bust I've seen since David Fischer, where a year after the draft it was already a done deal that the player in question was already a bust

 

[MSSLYNX]

Yup

Biggest bust I've seen since David Fischer, where a year after the draft it was already a done deal that the player in question was already a bust

Probably you focus on Habs prospects quite a lot and even still because you kind of forgot Louis Leblanc 3 yrs later? Scherbak 2014 grand total of 6 goals. And plenty of notable non-Habs picks as well. Geez the hyperbolic gang in here for nothing. Calling a 2018 draftee a bust even before the next draft is just silly.

To you Sam Morin should be a huge bust while ignoring the fact he played 24 games last 2 seasons because of injuries. Sam could show up next season though at 24, still a few good years ahead before retirement home but of course that is not possible.

Juolevi 5th 2016, Yakupov 1st and Reinhart 4th 2012. List goes on.

 

[Doublechin]

I'm talking about first rounders who are almost surely declared busts one year after their draft that. None of the names you listed fit the criteria

 

[MSSLYNX]

I'm talking about first rounders who are almost surely declared busts one year after their draft that. None of the names you listed fit the criteria

Bolded sounds kind of vague. 15 minutes after every pick there is a HF board member who craps on the pick and screams bust. Nothing new there.

Not sure why Fischer is different. You didnt provide any info to support. You should read that Providence's coaching philosophy stuff a few pages back. Some dudes in here know interesting stuff. But too bad its a "done deal".
edit: For your reading pleasure. Written 3 yrs after his draft. Hockey's Future - David Fischer

 

[MSSLYNX]

I'm talking about first rounders who are almost surely declared busts one year after their draft that. None of the names you listed fit the criteria

Not related to this quote but i might have found why Fischer is on your hate-list: just read how Timmins accepted to trade down 4 spots only to see Giroux gone before their extra 2nd rounder who was supposed to be when Habs grab Giroux. As per La Presse.

 

[flyersfan187]

Him dropping back in a lesser league I don't mind at all. Let him get healthy there and then go back to college for a year.

 

[bigdog16]

Bolded sounds kind of vague. 15 minutes after every pick there is a HF board member who craps on the pick and screams bust. Nothing new there.

Not sure why Fischer is different. You didnt provide any info to support. You should read that Providence's coaching philosophy stuff a few pages back. Some dudes in here know interesting stuff. But too bad its a "done deal".
edit: For your reading pleasure. Written 3 yrs after his draft. Hockey's Future - David Fischer

I understand you defending your team’s first rounder, id do the same. Every team has had busts. Not labelling OBrien one yet, but the odds are certainly stacked against him at this point. If you think whats happened in his draft +1 and +2 years is positive for his development you are crazy.

 

[AmericanDream]

I understand you defending your team’s first rounder, id do the same. Every team has had busts. Not labelling OBrien one yet, but the odds are certainly stacked against him at this point. If you think whats happened in his draft +1 and +2 years is positive for his development you are crazy.

I mean, who else would you like to compare it to that says this is not a positive move for him?

I am not saying this shouldn't be questioned, but let's see what the kid does on the ice before we really side one way or another. Is it an ideal situation? no. is it something that will prevent him from becoming a good pro player? no.

he really had a rough year this season health wise and ice time wise...he just seems like a kid that wants a fresh start, get lost in a league where he can dominate and play tons of minutes. I myself am not 100% behind this, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt to prove us wrong.

 

[bigdog16]

I mean, who else would you like to compare it to that says this is not a positive move for him?

I am not saying this shouldn't be questioned, but let's see what the kid does on the ice before we really side one way or another. Is it an ideal situation? no. is it something that will prevent him from becoming a good pro player? no.

he really had a rough year this season health wise and ice time wise...he just seems like a kid that wants a fresh start, get lost in a league where he can dominate and play tons of minutes. I myself am not 100% behind this, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt to prove us wrong.

Its just tough because the numbers he puts up in the BCHL will be useless to guage. Is 100 points a good year as a 1st rounder in his D+2 season? Newhook just did that in his draft year. I dont understand why hed go there to begin with. Between going CHL, USHL, BCHL, or just sticking it out in NCAA, he definitely choss the easiest route and the one that would be cririsized most

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Its just tough because the numbers he puts up in the BCHL will be useless to guage. Is 100 points a good year as a 1st rounder in his D+2 season? Newhook just did that in his draft year. I dont understand why hed go there to begin with. Between going CHL, USHL, BCHL, or just sticking it out in NCAA, he definitely choss the easiest route and the one that would be cririsized most

How many angels fit on the head of a pin?

 

[Dempsey]

He needs to absolutely torch the BCHL. A true overager playing Jr. A as a former first rounder is crazy.

Maybe he just prefers to be a big fish in a small pond and misses the days of dangling through entire teams of inferior competition.

I saw him live in Kamloops less than a year ago for the WJ Summer Showcase and he was good there. Maybe he just didn't fit in with Princeton. If he absolutely destroys the BCHL he'll be back on track...anything less and it'll be hard for anybody to argue he still has an NHL future.

 

[sasha barkov]

Hockey is a mental sport. It was quite obvious after his disappointing season with Providence he has no confidence. He obviously could go to higher comp like the Q or Ushow but going to the BCHL allows him to gain that confidence he had with Thayer. It is a good move if he can gain confidence and bring it back to college and eventually pros

 

[MSSLYNX]

I understand you defending your team’s first rounder, id do the same. Every team has had busts. Not labelling OBrien one yet, but the odds are certainly stacked against him at this point. If you think whats happened in his draft +1 and +2 years is positive for his development you are crazy.

Basically will defend any 2018 draftee called worst bust since David Fischer. Not saying he did great last year one bit. Will be on that bust bus when its time to hop and i dont care as much as others about round the kid has been drafted 3-4 yrs after the fact.

 

[MSSLYNX]

He needs to absolutely torch the BCHL. A true overager playing Jr. A as a former first rounder is crazy.

Maybe he just prefers to be a big fish in a small pond and misses the days of dangling through entire teams of inferior competition.

I saw him live in Kamloops less than a year ago for the WJ Summer Showcase and he was good there. Maybe he just didn't fit in with Princeton. If he absolutely destroys the BCHL he'll be back on track...anything less and it'll be hard for anybody to argue he still has an NHL future.

Probably i’m too intense in here and will let it go. You are making same points i do. You saw him live, i didnt. I read multiple articles AFTER the draft since i was as stunned as the next guy of the pick.

Prep school is a great place to grow and play hockey even if you are a first round pick. BCHL, not so much.

I’m going with the bad Princeton fit and wont go with the bad BCHL fit if he only gets 100 pt because some poster requires 3 ppg.

 

[bigdog16]

Probably i’m too intense in here and will let it go. You are making same points i do. You saw him live, i didnt. I read multiple articles AFTER the draft since i was as stunned as the next guy of the pick.

Prep school is a great place to grow and play hockey even if you are a first round pick. BCHL, not so much.

I’m going with the bad Princeton fit and wont go with the bad BCHL fit if he only gets 100 pt because some poster requires 3 ppg.

Well first off prep school hockey is not good and actually much worse than the BCHL. He wasnt at Princeton he was at Providence. And yes if he doesnt put up more than 2.5 ppg then he really isnt proving anything in that league. You truly just dont get it. DRAFT ELIGIBLES put up 2 ppg in that league. You would expect a former first rounder in his d+2 to put up better numbers than that

 

[MSSLYNX]

Well first off prep school hockey is not good and actually much worse than the BCHL. He wasnt at Princeton he was at Providence. And yes if he doesnt put up more than 2.5 ppg then he really isnt proving anything in that league. You truly just dont get it. DRAFT ELIGIBLES put up 2 ppg in that league. You would expect a former first rounder in his d+2 to put up better numbers than that

Yeah Princeton-Providence sorry.

I'm just not a linear type of guy probably. Guy can have huge D+1, average D+2, lousy D+3 ( do you need names?) but other way around is not an option. There is some kind of timeline that must be followed.

Of course he is behind, way behind. But dead? Worst since 2006? Scout-firing pick?

Whats your opinion on Sam Morin?

I remember the Peter Forsberg 1991 pick. Had my THN draft special with top 50 prospects with photos and bios. Then at 6 Flyers pick that acne-filled Swede. Could not believe it. If memory serves he had his name and country in the Notable sections and nothing more. As a teen got very upset. Right there 15 minutes after the pick. Never saw the guy play like most with JOB and others. Rest is history. And by the way his D+1 year was a bummer. Took off after. For the record i dont expect that type of scenario in case some here read it wrong.

 

[PKWeber]

Bust written all over him, there were much better players taken after him. I bet the Flyers regret this pick.